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View Full Version : Chaos Hero in a marked Chariot- cutting points?



Mozzamanx
17-08-2009, 23:41
Ello,

while planning out a Chaos list for a tournament, I had a look at the Chariot entry, and found this line:

'A character with a Chariot may not have a different Mark from his Chariot.'

Now, this obviously stops me putting a Nurgle Hero in my Khorne Chariot..
But what if he was unmarked?

He does not have a different Mark, because he has no Mark at all. However, the frenzy from the Chariot would affect all components of it, effectively giving him the Mark of Khorne for free.

Is this a legal way to cut points?

Sarah S
17-08-2009, 23:42
Having no Mark is not a Mark.

Therefore no Mark is not a different Mark from any other Mark.

Jushak
18-08-2009, 02:04
Mark my words, this is what happens when they decide to skip mentioning somewhere that all characters have Mark of the Undivided as base. That's the only explanation I can think of for such obvious flaw in the rules.

RAW, yes, it's possible. Doubt it's RAI though.

The only downside I guess is that if the chariot is shot down the character loses his frenzy, if he really does get it from the chariot.

Harwammer
18-08-2009, 08:09
People need to get over MoCU; its gone!

Nothing wrong with having an unmarked character on a marked chariot. No different to being blessed with one of the deity's magic items without a mark. You don't insist units with banner of rage ought to be marked by khorne, do you?

Avian
18-08-2009, 12:56
He does not have a different Mark, because he has no Mark at all. However, the frenzy from the Chariot would affect all components of it, effectively giving him the Mark of Khorne for free.
My Savage Orc Big Boss in a chariot costs 5(!) points more than a regular Orc Big Boss in a chariot, gives the whole thing frenzy and has the exact same options.

People aren't complaining about that, so I don't get why people should complain that WoC characters can do the same for three times the cost while limiting their options.
:confused:

Harwammer
18-08-2009, 13:20
its cos orcs are so irredeemably poor 5 points for frenzy char on chariot can't break them where as saving 30 points on frenzy for woc is enough to mark a dp tzeentch and buy a spell familiar, augmenting gateway ftw twice!

Avian
18-08-2009, 14:07
DPs can't take Spell Familiars and in any case that is a meaningless argument.

Atrahasis
18-08-2009, 14:25
He didn't say buy the familiar for the DP ;)

However, I agree that it's largely an empty argument.

EvC
18-08-2009, 16:08
I think he was being facetious (given that two posts before he was making the correct argument that characters can ride in unmarked chariots) ;)

Mozzamanx
18-08-2009, 17:25
Awesome, it seems like the majority of people would agree its legal (if a little fishy).

Just to be 100% in the clear, this would be strictly one-way, and so I cannot get away with putting a marked character in an unmarked Chariot.

Memnos
18-08-2009, 17:41
I should point out that the written rule is 'Having a different mark'.

If you said to someone 'You can have no different car than one you already have', you would be forbidding a person who has no car of ever buying one.

The legal modifier you're referring to could be argued as not applying in a situation where someone does not have whichever object was referred to in the discussion, but that isn't really what's being argued.

RAW, you can't have a marked chariot for an unmarked champion. RAI, you have wiggle room because intent can be argued. However, the linguistic interpretation of this RAW is that you can't do it.

EvC
18-08-2009, 18:02
I don't think you would be forbidding it, someone who has no car in the first place is not covered by your statement. It's a really badly worded analogy though, and actually mistranslates the wording of the Chaos book. How about, "you may not have a different make of car to one you already have" instead? In that case, if you had no car in the first place, then if you bought a new car, it wouldn't be a different brand, so would be allowed.

siphon101
18-08-2009, 19:19
Awesome, it seems like the majority of people would agree its legal (if a little fishy).

Just to be 100% in the clear, this would be strictly one-way, and so I cannot get away with putting a marked character in an unmarked Chariot.

erm, why not? doesn't the rule go both ways?

Harwammer
18-08-2009, 19:23
If I have a ford and you have a porche we have different cars.

If I have a ford and you have no car... well you just don't have a car.

@avian: what EVC said :P

One of my mates complained when I put an unmarked character on a khorne chariot. He complained I was getting 30 points worth of frenzy 'for free'. He plays orcs don't their combat heroes get BOTH mark of tzeentch AND khorne for just 5 points? Le sigh.

EvC
18-08-2009, 20:46
It's when you get Dark Elf players that complain about how broken our Chariots are (because they can destroy units when they charge them- only units that have little CR of course, and obviously not Black Guard who will survive to destroy the Chariot, but condarn it, that's not the point!) that you enter the next level.

Eta
18-08-2009, 22:28
It is not even 30 points you can save but only half of it. If my memory serves me right, the mark of Khorne is cheaper on characters than on units.

Greetings
Eta

Scallat
20-08-2009, 12:20
It's when you get Dark Elf players that complain about how broken our Chariots are (because they can destroy units when they charge them- only units that have little CR of course, and obviously not Black Guard who will survive to destroy the Chariot, but condarn it, that's not the point!) that you enter the next level.

Dark Elf chariots can do that too. (Probably easier than chaos one since they have hatred.) And for 20 points less.

the_picto
20-08-2009, 16:40
If you wanted to make The Fluff curl up in a ball and weep, you could put an unmarked hero on a Khorne chariot, granting him the frenzy bonus, and then give him the book of secrets, as the hero himself does not have the mark of khorne.

Atrahasis
20-08-2009, 17:18
Why bother being all coy about it? Undivided Sorcerer on a Khorne chariot...

Harwammer
20-08-2009, 21:53
Why bother being all coy about it? Undivided Sorcerer on a Khorne chariot...

Axe of khorne for KB and lore of heavens for reroll.

Priest of khorne is amazing, I've heard of it being refered to as the enchanted snow plough.