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DA_WarM
18-08-2009, 14:17
This game is against vampire counts. If it proves successful, I will use it against other opponents.

Characters - 514

General : Orc warboss w/ extra choppa, bigged kickin' boots, martog's best basha, the collar of zorga and the amulet of protectyness - 201
BSB : Black Orc Big Boss w/ heavy armour, BSB and war banner - 137
NG shaman w/ staff of sneaky stealin' - 100
Goblin big boss w/ giant wolf, light armour and backstabber's blade - 74

Core Units - 772

20 orc boyz w/ musician, standard bearer and additional choppa - 155
20 orc boyz w/ musician, standard bearer and shields - 135
9 goblin wolf riders w/ FC and spears - 148
30 NG w/ FC, nets and 2 fanatics - 195
30 NG w/ bows and 2 fanatics - 140

Special Units - 699

25 black orcs w/ FC, shields and Mork's Spirit Totem - 432
5 boar boyz w/ musician - 117
2 spear chukkas - 70
orc boar chariot - 80

Rare Units - 260

Goblin Doom Diver Catapult - 80
3 river trolls - 180

The total is 2245.
The warboss and BSB go with the black orcs. The goblin big boss goes with the wolf riders. The shaman goes with the night goblins. I get 3 power dices and 6+1 dispel dices. My opponent has -1 power dice. I put 25 BO to preserve the +3 rank bonus for as long as possible. The NG archers will protect my war machines. Any comments are welcome.
Thanks:chrome:

rtunian
18-08-2009, 14:42
your general has light armor and the amulet of protectyness. with this amulet, you cannot use your own armor and ward save, so any armor is unnecessary

your ng shaman has 100 points of magic items. the limit is 50 for heroes.

your orc warriors will not have any characters in them, so the 30 points you spend for champs on those 2 units are unnecessary and can be better spent elsewhere

boar boyz shouldn't have a champ unless a shaman on boar is with them (too expensive, same reason orc warrior champs are inefficient), nor should a unit of 5 have a standard... too easy to panic a unit of 5, meaning lost banner, also boar boyz should be supporting orc warriors which means that one of the standards is redundant, so you should drop the one that's easier for you to lose

the points you save on superfluous command can buy a fourth river troll. perhaps a couple of gobs would have to be sacrificed as well

you already know how i feel about big blorc blocks :p so no point in rehashing

DA_WarM
18-08-2009, 15:05
Thanks for the comments. I did remove the unnecessary bosses and added a chariot(I don't have a 4th troll). I completed a 5th rank of BO.

It this better?
Thanks!

rtunian
18-08-2009, 15:11
yes.

something else i noticed, your general and bsb could be on boars, which would add 2 to their armor saves, for 40 points though (for the pair of boars). perhaps cutting the blorcs down to 21 or 22 would do the trick (you'd still end up with unit strength 25 and 5 ranks of 5 because the boar riding bosses are us2 each)

DA_WarM
18-08-2009, 15:13
How would you use them if they were in boars?

rtunian
18-08-2009, 16:38
orcs on boars (or gobbos on wolves) can join infantry units. use them how you were already going to use them

DA_WarM
18-08-2009, 17:04
orcs on boars (or gobbos on wolves) can join infantry units. use them how you were already going to use them

Clever. I never thought of that. Thanks

Jind_Singh
18-08-2009, 17:16
It's a great all-commers list, you got some orcs, some gobbos, pretty good selection overall of troops....Heres some of my suggestions....

1) Black Orcs are going to be targeted by everything, you'll lose them left, right, and centre! Put Morks Spirit totem on the BSB, give warbanner to BLORCS, and park the BSB in a normal boyz unit - providing multiple targets to the enemy - does he whittle down a reg. boyz unit to reduce your power die, or does he go for the mean BLORCs???

2) Swap spear chuckas for rock lobba - I own all 3 and the spear chuckas have never really done anything to write home about. MAYBE 1 game in 5 they pull something cool off, wereas EVERY game the rock lobba has proved to be my best friend! You would be suprised at just how effective that artillary piece is.

3) If you have already assembled then oh well but - take out the FC for the wolf riders, it's deadly. They die too easy and will give away 100vp when they run (and they will!). The other issue is your less likely to throw them away (sacrifice) as they have a bannor so your not using them for what they should be - fast cav units that annoy the enemy! Drop the command and run 2 units of 5, each with musician. Ideally the unit size should be 6 but you only get 10 in a box so 2 units of 5 is fine.
4) You need a musician in the NG archer unit - just for the +1 to rally.
5) River Trolls are amazing, Stone Trolls are also great - the reason I prefer Stone Trolls is that theres a lot of spells out there that affect the whole battlefield, if this is the case you get handy magic resistance 2! They also have their armour save which helps them stay in the game. The downside is though if you try casting your own spell on them it wont work as they have MR - but since you only have 1 level 1 castor and no bound items this isnt a big deal. UNLESS of course you already own the amazing river troll models, in which case no problems!

And thats it!

rtunian
18-08-2009, 17:51
the reason I prefer Stone Trolls is that theres a lot of spells out there that affect the whole battlefield

magic resistance has been faq'd to only apply to targeting spells. blanket spells that affect the whole battlefield, or area of effect (template) spells do not trigger magic resistance

DA_WarM
18-08-2009, 18:13
It's great to have feedback on an army list!!

Great idea for the banners, I never thought of it. I'd like to use a rock lobba but I don't have the model on hand. For the trolls, I have the trolls from the Skull pass box set(2) and a stone troll model. For the wolf riders, I will put a big boss with them. Do I need to remove the full command (SB & champion)?

Magx
19-08-2009, 17:09
your general has light armor and the amulet of protectyness. with this amulet, you cannot use your own armor and ward save, so any armor is unnecessary



Huh ? why he wouldn't be able to use armor with the amulet of protectyness ?




your orc warriors will not have any characters in them, so the 30 points you spend for champs on those 2 units are unnecessary and can be better spent elsewhere



I disagree. 15 points for a champ with WS 4, S 4 (5 in the first round of combat), and 2 attacks is not a lot of whole points. The fact that there is no characters in the units are irrelevant...unless you explain why...and I find that you are right...

rtunian
19-08-2009, 21:30
because with the amulet on, you count as having the armor save and ward save as the model that caused the wounds. so your armor doesn't count. if something with no armor wounds you, then the amulet says that you have no armor save

as for the champs, it's a matter of priority. if the points can be better spent elsewhere, they should be. which is better... a few superfluous champions or an extra chariot? sometimes with the way the army list works out, champions could be costing you rares! imo each rare/special is way better than one or a few non-bodyguard champs. or perhaps you don't have quite enough for that big bad axe for your general. which would be better then?

Magx
20-08-2009, 06:22
well, that really depends... I always build my list so that my rares slot and special slot are always taken... and I still have champions...

and about the armor... I think it's still a good idea to have an armor in case of random hit while you are not in close combat with the enemy...

rtunian
20-08-2009, 13:03
magx are you dense?

if a model causes you a wound, and you have the amulet of protectyness on, you use the armor and ward save of the model that caused the wound. period. end of story. no conditionals on what phase the wound was caused in. no conditionals on whether or not you feel like it. you must use the ward/armor save of the model that wounded you, and if that ward/armor save is nothing, then you get no ward/armor save.

Deglosh
21-08-2009, 08:55
One thing i saw is that you gave 1 character both collar of Zorga and the amulet of protectyness. Is this "legal"? im pritty sure they fall under the same magical items category. And as far as i know the only ones you can combine from the same category (witout restriction to one, for example as in this case, talisman per character) are scrolls and stuff like magical mushrooms.

rtunian
21-08-2009, 13:59
One thing i saw is that you gave 1 character both collar of Zorga and the amulet of protectyness. Is this "legal"? im pritty sure they fall under the same magical items category. And as far as i know the only ones you can combine from the same category (witout restriction to one, for example as in this case, talisman per character) are scrolls and stuff like magical mushrooms.

nice catch. it is not legal

Magx
23-08-2009, 05:26
magx are you dense?

if a model causes you a wound, and you have the amulet of protectyness on, you use the armor and ward save of the model that caused the wound. period. end of story. no conditionals on what phase the wound was caused in. no conditionals on whether or not you feel like it. you must use the ward/armor save of the model that wounded you, and if that ward/armor save is nothing, then you get no ward/armor save.

I am probably dense, lol... I thought you had to be in base contact with the model... my bad.

Stuffburger
23-08-2009, 14:12
I've found it better to place characters in with the boyz units instead of black orcs. The BO's would be wasting the general's auto-waaagh!, the BSBs quell animosity and leadership. The black orcs are already fairly capable in combat and so don't need the extra punch of character to help them win fights.

The best place for the spirit totem is in a unit of shield boyz, where you can buy a rank for 30 points, instead of 70 points for 5 black orcs, and are just about as tough.

In short i'd give your BSB the totem, the blorcs the warbanner, find some points to bump your boyz up to 25+, but the BSB with the shieldies and the warboss with the other boyz.

I'd be leery of the unit of 9 wolves with the hero in it too- it's an ld7, unarmored flanking unit that could be off the board with one failed panic test. Also since they are Fast Cav you cannot gain a rank bonus, and losing the standard is a real possibility. I'd bring it down to the standard unit of 5 w/ mus, then take the saved points and put your goblin on a chariot.