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PeG
18-08-2009, 22:27
A friend is starting HE due to that she likes the cav models and the dragons. What is a good starting point for a HE army? Is the battalion good?

Yiyio
18-08-2009, 23:17
Well the battalion is good indeed, I don't like silver helms at all (Dragon princes have been improved a lot) but if your friend likes cavalry models both units are a must. Then you can add more cavalry, chariots, dragons...

taffeh
18-08-2009, 23:17
Battalion is good as a starting point, however with more experience ppl tend to drop the Silver Helms - even convert them for Dragon Princes! But spearmen / archers / bolt throwers tend to be the bread and butter, followed by toys such as Dragons / Special infantry / Mages

LKHERO
18-08-2009, 23:40
Yes, take the Silver Helms and just convert them to Dragon Princes, absolutely.
Spearmen are good, Archers are good in 10s, all of the elite are good too.

Troah
19-08-2009, 00:10
My friend rarely uses spearmen or archers, he always uses his seaguard. I guess because they're both units combined into one and only a few points more?

Tarian
19-08-2009, 01:11
Seaguard (IMO) are overpriced. They really start adding in the points with large blocks of them. Personally, I'd rather take 1 block of spears and 1 block of archers than 2 blocks of sea guard.

LKHERO
19-08-2009, 01:23
My friend rarely uses spearmen or archers, he always uses his seaguard. I guess because they're both units combined into one and only a few points more?

Not worth the points. They're good in groups of 10x, but anything more than that is just too many points wasted.

High Elf units are fairly specialized. For Rank and File (RnF), you want Spears because they can generate combat res. For shooting, you want Archers because they're cheaper and have longer range. Seaguard can do both, but aren't as good as their cheaper counterparts. Get what I'm saying?

Troah
19-08-2009, 04:11
Not worth the points. They're good in groups of 10x, but anything more than that is just too many points wasted.

High Elf units are fairly specialized. For Rank and File (RnF), you want Spears because they can generate combat res. For shooting, you want Archers because they're cheaper and have longer range. Seaguard can do both, but aren't as good as their cheaper counterparts. Get what I'm saying?

Yeah I get it, but I'm not the one using the overpriced unit...yet he always beats me with them ><

sulla
19-08-2009, 05:41
My friend rarely uses spearmen or archers, he always uses his seaguard. I guess because they're both units combined into one and only a few points more?There are a lot of seaguard haters out there. The only real fault I have with them is that they only have bows, not longbows. Because of that, I prefer units of archers for shooting instead of LSG. They are not dreadful though, and are pretty useful vs armies with a lot of light, fast stuff which will be attacking your missile troops early in the game. The extra rank of ASF attacks is usually enough to deter these units from charging them.

Condottiere
19-08-2009, 05:51
Usually, minimum Core and lots of Specials, Dragon Princes, Phoenix Guard, White Lions, Sword Masters, chariots; Rare is really useful, and a good balance is two RBTs and two eagles.

Avatar of the Eldar
19-08-2009, 05:53
Not worth the points. They're good in groups of 10x, but anything more than that is just too many points wasted.

High Elf units are fairly specialized. For Rank and File (RnF), you want Spears because they can generate combat res. For shooting, you want Archers because they're cheaper and have longer range. Seaguard can do both, but aren't as good as their cheaper counterparts. Get what I'm saying?

I'd share an alternative perspective. In my group, two units of 15 Seaguard with Mu only are more versatile than one big block of spears, particularly in a list like mine that includes 2 x 14 elites (WL's + SM's or two of one or the other)

You've got 2 units to support those elite blocks, plus 2 tiranoc chariots to partner up. Seaguard can go out on the flanks to shoot and cover the flanks of the hitters in the middle of your line or forget shooting, just use them as spears and get them forward with the hitty units.

Now in a predominantly cav list, one block of spears and one of archers worked well for me in the last edition of HE.

Bottom line, it's not either or, nor is one especially optimal over the other. You can make either combination work.

Condottiere
19-08-2009, 05:57
You should also be aware that High Elves have highly specialized troops, so they are great if you can get them into situations where they can use their strengths, in trouble when they can't. ASF compensates.

The SkaerKrow
19-08-2009, 19:30
That actually works pretty well, since her favored units (cavalry and dragons) lend themselves to a themed Caledorian list. The battalion isn't bad, but you may consider finding some bits to convert the Silver Helms into Dragon Princes (reptilian wings for the helms would suffice).

PeG
22-09-2009, 21:19
what about gear for the units in the battalion?

I am assuming no command (possibly mus) for archers

Banner+ mus for spearmen

Shields+ banner + mus for silverhelms (might be converted to dragonprinces at a later timepoint)

opinions?

Tarian
23-09-2009, 01:36
For me, no command for archers at all. They're a min core, they should act like it.

Banner/Champ for Spears, same for the helms. The champ helps when you need someone to throw under the bus, and with HE LD, Musicians are a luxury, not a necessity.

The SkaerKrow
23-09-2009, 12:29
I disagree completely. You should always take a Musician in any infantry unit that you anticipate will actually see combat. Few things are worse in the game of Warhammer than losing a combat because you didn't bother spending 7 or 8 points on a Musician (especially if it happens against an outnumbering, Fear causing enemy).

For the Archers a Musician isn't needed, but the Spearkin are another story entirely.

Condottiere
23-09-2009, 13:25
Depends if you plan to flee, that +1 to rally might come in useful.

PeG
23-09-2009, 13:29
I normally play WE and want my bows in short range to get S4 which often gives me a reason to run since they are unable to win combat against anything. My experiences from WE has influenced my idea of command groups for HE which isnt necessarily correct.

HE is for a friend that hasnt played fantasy before.

Tarian
23-09-2009, 13:46
I disagree completely. You should always take a Musician in any infantry unit that you anticipate will actually see combat. Few things are worse in the game of Warhammer than losing a combat because you didn't bother spending 7 or 8 points on a Musician (especially if it happens against an outnumbering, Fear causing enemy).

For the Archers a Musician isn't needed, but the Spearkin are another story entirely.

Well, I guess that's just two different playstyles. I see the benefit of musicians, I just don't feel I get my point value out of them.

Condottiere
23-09-2009, 14:05
It becomes attractive if you place them out on the flanks, or let them flee through an ItP unit.