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View Full Version : Anti-Magic Vampire Counts - worth a try?



Ultimate Life Form
19-08-2009, 16:20
I was jealous when I learned on Sunday that the HE obviously automatically gain +1 to dispelling. Just like that! And it screwed an important spell, too! Is that fair or what?:mad:

When flipping through my VC book, I realized that it offers quite some anti-magic potential, too. Time to have that guy taste his own medicine, shut him up and steamroll him with a top-tier army!

The Corpse Cart with Balefire reduces enemy casting within 24" by -1. That is basically +1 to dispel but even better because it makes it more difficult for him to cast, too! Plus, it stacks! So 3 Corpse Carts within 24" means -3 to any casting attempts for Mr. uppity High Elf. Now I'll throw in the standard common magic items anti-magic sceptre for an additional -1 and the Skull Staff for even another -1 and that's a potential +5 to dispel! That should even humble those pesky High Elves and shut their Magic Phase down! Whatcha think?

I know that Magic is the VC's strong point and I don't have qualms about exploiting this even further. And before you accuse my of cheesy gaming, he's an invincible tournament player so don't sympathize with him. I'm the victim here!

chaos0xomega
19-08-2009, 17:12
What does he care? he can just take Teclis and cast everything with Irresistable Force. How are you going to dispel THAT?

Ultimate Life Form
19-08-2009, 18:59
What does he care? he can just take Teclis and cast everything with Irresistable Force. How are you going to dispel THAT?

We don't use stupid special characters because, as you already noticed, they ruin game balance.;)

EvC
19-08-2009, 19:23
Well yeah you could do that, but then he might turn up with a Star Dragon in which case you've spent 400 points on stopping his magic, which he probably won't bother casting anyway. Oh yeah and to gain ASF three times... and still fight after his rank and file :D

bork da basher
19-08-2009, 19:41
why not just go extreme magic offense and ruin his day with an unending tide of undead critters.

the amount of points invested in making that anti magic list would neuter the rest of your army. frankly high elves shouldn't be too difficult to wear down. if you can make it through the firestorm of spells and shooting although outmatched in combat you'll beat him eventually through CR+fear+outnumbering if you throw enough bodies at him.

personnally i run a pair of corpsecarts with balefire, one as a mount for my necro. and the -2 to cast is fantastic and generally means the enemy has to use a extra dice to power each spell and thus you see a few less spells cast because of it. against heavy magic lists it makes a dent, against low to medium magic lists it cuts them off quite brutally.

Maoriboy007
19-08-2009, 19:56
2 Balfire carts and manfred the acolyte hero with skullstaff is a pretty good magic defence (-3 to cast total). I like the combo because it gives a nice magic defence vs DE and WoC and allows me to take combat items on my other characters without resorting to scrolls.

Signius
19-08-2009, 21:08
Aren't the only two super cheesy invincible tournament lists for HE ones that involve either teclis or star dragons?

PeG
20-08-2009, 00:46
and if I remember correctly you still have to reach the casting value of the spell even if you roll irresistable force meaning that the combined -1 to cast would still be at least partially useful by forcing your opponent to use more dice for each spell.

EvC
20-08-2009, 12:40
Well you don't remember right. Although Teclis has to roll the casting value for his doubles to count as IF, a double 6 is always IF.

Also be careful with terminology- 2 Balefire and Skullstaff is not -3 to cast, it's -2 to cast and +1 to dispel.

Leogun_91
20-08-2009, 18:07
What does he care? he can just take Teclis and cast everything with Irresistable Force. How are you going to dispel THAT?More corpsecarts with balefire....Teclis stops laughing when he is at -5 or more to cast.

Well yeah you could do that, but then he might turn up with a Star Dragon in which case you've spent 400 points on stopping his magic, which he probably won't bother casting anyway. Oh yeah and to gain ASF three times... and still fight after his rank and file :DBut before the dragon and a vampirelord with frostblade is a very nasty suprise for that dragon, add beguile and infinitehatered as well if you want to be sure.

azindal
20-08-2009, 20:20
Anti magic Vamp counts is certainly worth a try!

The skull staff and 3 balecarts will make a mess of most forces magic phase.

Why people wouldnt take a few balecarts is a mystery to me, for 100pts they are gold!

Gokamok
20-08-2009, 22:13
Before going all nuts on Balefire Carts, it's worth bearing in mind that they cost 100 points each. Sure, it might be a good deal, but I personally can't imagine how I'd fit 3 or more into a competitive 2k list, so this "all-out" anti-magic is unlikely to work below 3-4k battles.

Against HE in particular, I think Balefire Carts are a waste, since you won't really benefit from the bound spell, and 100 points is a tad steep when you only get the -1 to cast effect.

In a tournament setting (or for an allcomers list) VC can use their antimagic tools to great effect. At last years UK GT, I ran a list with 2 Balefire Carts and a Staff of Sorcery, which combined secured me magic superiority in all my games (which included one against 2 Tzeentch Heralds, Big blocks of Horrors and a lvl 4 Keeper of Secrets).

The amazing thing about giving your opponent a negative casting modifier is (as Bork da Basher pointed out earlier) that your opponent needs to use more dice for each spell. This, of course, has a different impact depending on the casting value of the spells your opponent is trying to get off; if it's an 8+ spell, your opponent will likely still be using 3 dice, even with -2 to cast, but against spells such as Flickering Fire or Invocation of Nehek, you force your opponent to cast on 2 dice rather than 1, which effectively neutralizes the ability to spam spells with low casting value.

In short, Anti-magic VC is definitely viable, especially if you know that you're heading into a magic heavy environment.

Ultimate Life Form
20-08-2009, 22:40
Thanks for all the replies, I'm glad it does work. Now I'll give it a go and see how I can squeeze a few Corpse Carts in. Besides, it's not only HE, I'm playing against other armies as well. This should effectively shut down the WE Magic Phase. The only problem would be Tomb Kings because I guess the Balefire won't influence their Invocations?

Sarah S
20-08-2009, 22:48
Yeah it does, just like Drain Magic - with one caveat.

It mentions Wizards, and only Liche Priests and High Liche Priests in Tomb Kings armies are Wizards.

The Tomb Kings and Tomb Princes are not Wizards, more like Warrior Priests, and so they would not be effected.