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LemanRuss
20-08-2009, 19:19
so me and my cousin are starting new armies.
he's doing dwarfs and i'm doing chaos.
our goal is to start our armies with 750 pts.
now i know both armies are pretty expensive so that would make for some small armies on the field, perfect for learning the game.

my question for you guys is, what to use on the field?
how to tool up my exalted hero?
which mark for my warriors?
which units etc???

well thanks anyway

Draco74
20-08-2009, 20:08
With a game that size you won't be able to feild that much in either army. I would normaly say that instead of an Exaulted that you should take a Sorcerer instead. But Dwarves start with 4 dispel dice and would just shut down you magic. On the up side, you don't have to worry about them casting at you either.

You will want Warhound to sheild your other units from fire. I always take 4 units of 5 it comes out to 120 pts. I would then take 2 Marauder Cavalry in units of 5 with flails, musician and Mark of Slaanesh 182 pts for both units. Also take at least one unit of 5 knights with musician standard and Mark of Slannesh for 240 pts.
That is 542 pts with 208 left for extras and characters.
also it doesn't cost that much. 2 boxes of 10 warhounds ($50), 2 boxes of 5 Marauders ($50) and one box of Knights ($25) for a total of $125.00

Tarian
20-08-2009, 20:09
Well, Nurgle would be good against Dwarven shooting, I don't like Khorne personally, Tzeentch is pretty general purpose, and Slaneesh is nice for panic tests.

That being said, I like running Tzeentch personally for fluff reasons.

Marauders, mounted or not, are all very useful for adding bulk to a list. Chaos Warriors/Chosen/Knights all hit very hard, and should beat any Dwarf unit in CC, though they are a bit expensive.

So, the overall point of my rambling:

Try to balance between hitting power and numbers. Pick something you like, and try to be flexible about it.

Drachen_Jager
20-08-2009, 23:43
Chaos Knights are one of the strongest units, all cavalry armies do very well generally, there are some other moderately successful builds but if you're looking for raw power and you don't want to go heavy magic cav is your best bet.

Don't let people dissuade you from the Knights of Khorne, they are one of the very toughest units in the game and if played in concert with a good number of Warhounds they can decimate nearly anything head-on (watch out for Ironbreakers and stubborn units though). I like Exalted on a Juggernaut with Enchanted Shield and Sword of Might or an Axe of Khorne (the axe would probably suit dwarves better).

Marauder horsemen with flails do a pretty good job against Dwarfs too.

A good tactic is to get several units of Knights lined up so that you can create a little epic battle with 2-3 of his units and 2-3 of your units, your kills stack for the whole combat whereas his ranks and outnumber are only counted once.

LemanRuss
21-08-2009, 09:40
i should have specified that i'm not really into cavalry all that much.
the list i'm doing is going to represent a mercenary force.
ive made up a list of 750 pts,tell me if its any good and whats not:D thanks

-exalted hero of chaos,mos,steed of slannesh,flail
-10 warriors of chaos,halberds,standard,musci
-10 warriors of chaos,halberds,standard,musci
-21 marauders,flails,mok
-ogre maneater,chatayan longsword


the hero is there to take out gunners cannon crews and those dwarf heroes.
with str 6 and m10 he will get the job done nice and fast. and at this points level not much that can handle him.

the warriors are there for the punch,able to take down the enemy ranks in one hard punch.

mauraders,there for bulk and numbers, being deployed 7 wide they offer either a meat shield or a first wave.

ogre meneater,he's stubborn and yes i know its only 1 ogre but at this points all things are taken in moderation.he's there to hold up enemy units like warriors who can't hit back all too hard


so thats the army,if youre interested in fluff then just ask me

Catferret
21-08-2009, 09:49
The maneater takes up 2 rare slots outside the Ogre Kingdoms army I'm afraid. At this low point level you only have 1 rare slot available.

LemanRuss
21-08-2009, 10:59
where does it say it takes up 2 slots??? where can you see which slots ogres take up anyways?

AndyGI
21-08-2009, 11:37
Although the cheapest, mark of slaanesh is pretty useless against dwarfs, you won't be taking fear or terror tests and the re-roll against panic should be enough should the shooting force you to take a test.

What is more useful is tzeentch for the ward save or Nurgle to reduce them the ability to hit. Not sure statistically whats better against say a unit of 10 dwarf thunderers.

In general, the thing i've found with these two armies is that dwarfs will win by not dying and have SCR which you need to beat by killing. Halberds are a good choice for this, but also consider 2 hand weapons if you want to roll extra dice

For the dwarf general, i'd advise an organ gun as their rare choice, cannons are mostly useless here, unless he wants to make a big deal about sniping your general.

Dwarf thunderers are good, but Dwarf Crossbows get that potential first turn shot. Though the armour penetration will be useful against chaos warriors.

Draco74
21-08-2009, 14:20
If your cousin has any shooting at all (most dwarves do) your almost all infantry list will have a hard time making it across the board at all. You need some more fast movers to start disrupting the gun line as quick as possible.

Catferret
21-08-2009, 18:14
where does it say it takes up 2 slots??? where can you see which slots ogres take up anyways?

Ogre Kingdoms book. Maneater entry, p39, Dogs of War. Again on p67. Most of the Ogre units take up one slot, it's just Maneaters that take 2 as they are "rare even in the ranks of the mercenary world".

Ozorik
21-08-2009, 18:36
Chaos Warriors/Chosen/Knights all hit very hard, and should beat any Dwarf unit in CC

They dont reliably break dwarven infantry from the front though. Admittedly there shouldnt be any fully ranked units at this points level but, in general, Dwarven infantry blocks take a lot of beating without flank charges.

What I would suggest is to take lots of small screening units to absorb missile fire and harrass, possibly to take flank charges. At least 2 units of hounds and 1 of horsemen would be my recommendation. Warriors wont do much I'm afraid, Dwarven infantry will outnumber them and they are tough enough to significantly reduce the warriors damage potential. Similary large maruader blocks wont be all that useful as they cant really threaten Dwarven infantry bocks from the front. If you want to use infantry small marauder units may be off use, depending on the level of firepower that the Dwarf player is using, to flank charge and act as a dstraction.

The core of the army should be a unit of 5 knights IMO, any mark but Slaneesh would be useful against Dwarves. This unit, combined with a flank charge, will almost certainly break an infantry block at this points level.

Its is undeniably expensive but it provided the nessicary melee power that will be needed if the Dwarf player leaves his warmachines at home.

Basically if he runs a gunline lots of hounds and horsemen supporting marauder blocks are what you need. If he runs a more balanced or infantry focused force then knights will be invaluable.

Drachen_Jager
21-08-2009, 19:40
IMO you could be in real trouble with your steed of slaanesh guy going off on his own, a unit of gunners will quite often pass a break test at -1 or -2 (which is the best you can expect to do with your Exalted, 2-3 kills for you, +1 to him for outnumber) in the second round of combat you're S5 instead of S7 (I don't know where you got 6 from). That could be a long combat and you're liable to take 1 wound from the stand and shoot so even one lucky hit for him ends you... Not a good risk.

PeG
21-08-2009, 20:22
An all infantry WoC list will get shot to pieces against dwarfs. S4 armour piercing from handgunnners will hurt and as others have said at this point level you cant really bring enough magic to force him to come to you meaning that you will have to walk across the table being shot at each turn.

Also if he for some reason doesnt take any shooting (I dont think I have ever seen a dwarfs list without shooting) you will have two armies consisting of 2-3 really slow infantry units trying to outmanouver the other one.

Ozorik
21-08-2009, 20:33
Also if he for some reason doesnt take any shooting (I dont think I have ever seen a dwarfs list without shooting) you will have two armies consisting of 2-3 really slow infantry units trying to outmanouver the other one.

They certainly exist; in my experience the best (in terms of enjoyment/effectiveness) dwarf lists only have a few ranged weapons. My own list has 4 ranged weapons; 2 bolt throwers, a grudge thrower and a gyrocopter, thats all that I need.

WoC can have more than 2-3 infantry units, much more. An all cavalry WoC list will have some serious difficulties against an all infantry Dwarf army that doesnt show its flanks.

A lot depends on the temperament of the two players and the type of list that they would like to field, dont just assume that Dwarves = gunline.

If you want to learn the game take a little of everything and more of the things you like. People forget that the object of wargaming is to have fun, like any other hobby. List tailoring and min/maxing appeals to some players but they annoy more.

PeG
21-08-2009, 21:08
We are talking about 750 points he will not have a lot more than 3 infantry units if he wants warriors or anything else then marauders and he does need something to break through dwarf armour.

LemanRuss
21-08-2009, 21:33
oke to stop confusion, the dwarf list is as such.


-dwarf thane,great weapon,rune of stone
-dragon slayer
-14 dwarf warriors with shields,banner,musci
-7 troll slayers
-10 hammers
-volands venators
-2 bolt throwers


against either the previous list or this one

-troll king throg
-exalted,mos,steedos,halberd
-10warriors,halberd,musci,banner
-10warriors,halberd,musci,banner
-spawen,mok

well whats yer opinions now? or still the same?

Ozorik
21-08-2009, 22:48
Neither of those lists strike me as being particulallry effective. A mounted army would do well against them as they lack real ranged power and none of their units will stand up to knights, the slayers and the hammerers may last 2 rounds but thats about it.