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Phonox
21-08-2009, 00:50
Hey all :)

Whilst normally a 40k player, I've had some perusals into the land of Fantasy, namely with my Ogre army (done up as Smurfs, which I thought was pretty cool :) )
I've recently started to play Daemons in 40k, which of course led me to the conclusion, why not bring them into Fantasy, and have a two-for-one army!
Now my experience with Fantasy being limited to Ogres and to a lesser extent; Tomb Kings, has perhaps given me a different view point on how an army should look when skipping through the Daemons army book, but my friend and I cooked this list up last night, so (as I don't have the army book personally yet), it may be a touch out of synch as to how a Daemons army should work.
Mainly the models are being brought across from my 40k resources, but feel free to highlight any suggestions and I'll take them into consideration (use them in an Apoc game at a later stage =P).

Onto the list!

Bloodthirster

Skulltaker on Juggenaught
Combines with -
4 Blood Crushers

Herald of Nurgle on a Palaquin

2 x 21 Plaguebearers

16 x Bloodletters

Now this does leave 54 points to spend, so there's a fair bit of wiggle room in terms of units and what can be added or removed, so feel free to tear it apart.
I've listed it as a Tournament list, as I'll no doubt be taking them to tournaments as time goes by, and because I expect to fight a fairly broad range of armies, so no real tailoring so to speak.

Any C&C would be greatly welcomed =D

Cheers

Phonox
21-08-2009, 14:22
40 views and no replies?
:cries:

Jind_Singh
21-08-2009, 17:01
Hey mate, I was going to reply last night but got too tired!
Anyways, not sure how it works on the 40K threads but here in Fantasy the minute you post a deamon thread there will be hundreds of people who will take time to read it - but no one will reply to it because.....

NO BODY LIKES DAEMONS!!!

I don't blame them, I own 8000 pts of Deamons and I don't like them at times! Unlike 40K fantasy Daemons are one of the most broken armies you can imagine! Nearly all of their units are packed with cheddar cheese and their magic upgrades/options make people shudder! But don't let that phase you, played in the right spirt of the game you'll find no end of fun (for both you and the opponent) with Deamons, and for a new person coming into Warhammer Daemons are a perfect choice as they are a very forgiving army with which to learn and get used to the naunces of Warhammer - King of Kings, the game to end all games, and the reason to put away your dreams of conquering space and sticking to Terra....

Welcome to the Old World!!!!

Heres a quick rundown on how the Daemons of Chaos work out........

1) First of all you have to decide how your army is going to play. Are we looking for a fast & furious assualt army, packed with cavalry, shock troops, fliers? Do we want an infantary horde with support units? Do you enjoy magic, and want an army that is magic heavy? Do you like greater deamons with smaller support units? Are you looking for an all-comers list? Do you want to field an unstoppable list that might mean fewer games? Theres multiple choices so first of all let us know what your intent is.

Based on your model collection I'm going to make the following suggestions

1) Skulltaker on Juggernaught - there is nothing more fearsome than this guy and he's so dirt cheap for what he can do, works out to 200pts in total. My first suggestion is to use him as a normal herald on Juggernaught, give him Firestorm blade and armour of Khorne, this is a total of 190pts. He will give your entire bloodletter unit hatred, takes up enough room so your bloodletters are 20 strong (5*4 ranks, and later 6 wide frontage), and will be better protected. Dont forget, if a unit has less than 5 rank & file models you can not protect your character from being picked out be enemy spells/firepower - your herald (or skulltaker would soon be singled out for death).
2) If you take the normal herald in the bloodletter units (and belive me this is great set-up for heralds) then make sure you have full command + a bannor - I personally prefer the one that gives you an extra D6 on the 1st charge.
3) Herald of nurgle - make him level 1 and give him slime trail, makes it so no one gets bonus for flanking/rear charging the unit - though you still lose your ranks as per normal.
Stick him in a unit of plauge bearers with full command and bannor that adds extra combat res for each posion attack you do.
4) Upgrade another model you have to being a herald of nurgle and park him in the other plaugebearer unit with the same set-up as the other herald - minus the palaquin of course!
So now we have:

Herald of Khorne, Jugger, AoK, Firestorm blade - 190pts
with
16 bloodletters, full command, icon - 247pts

Herald of Nurgle, level 1 wizard, palaquin, slime trail - 180pts
with
16 plaugebearers, full command, icon - 247 pts

Herald of nurgle, level 1 wizard, slime train - 130pts
with
19 plaugebearers, full command - 258pts (note no icon needed)

So far we have spent 1252pts (but please double check my numbers as I am doing it from memory).

So lets add your bloodthirster in there - with any number of combinations. Lets assume you spend the full 100pts and he costs you 550pts

So now we are at 1802pts - 448pts to go!

4 bloodcrushers - 280pts

168 pts left - and I'm pretty sure I priced slime trail wrong - I used 15pts but Im now thinking it's only 10pts - in which case you have 178pts

Buy 5 flesh hounds for 175 pts and you at least have a shock unit in additon to 3 huge core units with a greater deamon.

Now this list is by far nothing close to optimal for daemons of chaos but it means for the small investment of 5 fleshounds you will have your 2250 pt army - and besides fleshounds are one of the reason there have been 40 views and ZERO posts - they are disgusting in fantasy battle!

So ends this post - later I'll post a quick whats-what of the other deamon units you dont have but at least your ready to go!
Take care and good luck with seeing if you get more posts!

Jind_Singh
21-08-2009, 20:10
OK - Well before I leave for the day heres some pointers on the units:

1) Pink Horrors - 10 strong with an icon that makes them +1 to cast spells is only around 147pts I think - and so you get a really cheap core unit, which casts magic missle on a 3+, not shabby! It's good as it allows you to spend points elsewere in the army, and still retain cheap magic users.

2) Heralds of Tzeentch - ugly buggers, for a mere 115 pts you get a great lvl 2 castor, addition of a few gifts (such as power vortex) allow you to really strenghen the magic offensive but still very cheap for what they do. A common trick is to put these buggers onto chariots so they have combat abilities but I prefer leaving them in units to increase my ward save to 4+.

3) Heralds of Khorne - We've already described the classic set-up for a HoK, 190pts of str 7 flaming attacks with ZERO plus armour save, oh he also has hatred...nuff said. Even though he's just a hero he'll be able to go toe-to-toe with most heros/lords and be a 1 shot charriot killer with his str 7.

4) Bloodletters - I personally love them, WS5, str 5 with killing blow - stick the herald in and you got a great combat unit. Add the bannor that allows them to always march if your playing someone who loves to march block, but I prefer the one that gives an extra D6 to charge just to really ensure the charge hits home - nothing worse than failed charge.

5) Bloodcrushers - great models, great stats, way over priced compared to other units in the book which is why you will find they are not used very often. Personally though if you want a list which is easier for people to handle and looking for people not to cry about your list these are a good choice. And dont forget they are actually good - whats wrong with str 6 attacks?

6) Fleshounds - most cheapest elite units in the game, 175 pts gets you 10 str 5 attakcs, T4, 2 wounds each, movement of 8" - oh by the way, because that wasnt enough, they threw in magic resistance 3!!! Love them, they are so destructive!

7) Herald of Nurgle & Plauge bearers- basically around to ensure your plaugebearers get regeneration! Very tough, got some good spells if you make him level 1 (especially the basic spell), and he can be kitted out with some good items. Slime trails is very common as it negates flanking bonus to the enemy. Stick him on a planaquin and now you got like 6 posion attacks, used with plauge bearers bannor it really helps break units in combat. Downside - kill the herald and you lose the regen, so look after the herald. Slow as hell - they only move base 4"!!

8) Nurglings - love them, love them, love them - they scout & Skirmish! they are a cool unit that allow you to engage the foe from the start of the game..AND they also hold their own with 3 poisioned attacks each! And only 35pts a base!!!!

9) Beast of nurgle - expensive at 100pts a model but very tough unit - he'll really tie down a unit for a turn or 2 but he is purely a support unit - if used on his own he wont get much done, so do not depend on him to break the game for you.

Finally a word about standards

DoC get the best standards in the game - so never leave home without one. I would ideally like to see at least a 50pt BSB bannor as everything is so good!
D3 combat res
-2 to enemy spell castors doing spells
-2 to leadership
stubborn to all units within 12"

What is there not to like about the above 4?? And even the core units all get great basic icons that really enhance the units so please look through them in closer detail.

As your model collection is Khorne and Nurgle I'll leave it at that - but look to Slaanesh and Tzeentch for some excellent options!

Take care and feel free to message me if you need help

blumley
21-08-2009, 21:05
i have a lot of experience with daemons so will also give you some pointers.

1) although some ppl say take the standard for 10 man horror units i strongly advise against this from recent experiences. as this is a very easy 100 vps for your opponent to get and there are normally better things you can spend 27 pts on.

2) always take an army standard. due to the way the instability works these things rock as they make your units very resilient in combat. especially plague bearers who are hard to kill anyway.

3) never take screamers these things r so fragile and expensive they just aint worth it. flesh hounds are far superior for virtually the same price.

4) flamers are amazingly good and would really recommend you get some of these as they are by far the best of the rare choices.

5) i def agree with the above post plague bearer heralds deserve palanquins as it makes them amazing with the number 1 spell. plus with the double combat res for poison hits hes a bit of a monster.

Jind_Singh
22-08-2009, 05:48
1) although some ppl say take the standard for 10 man horror units i strongly advise against this from recent experiences. as this is a very easy 100 vps for your opponent to get and there are normally better things you can spend 27 pts on.

All I can say is this is one of those points that people must make their own call on - in the games I've played with them I've yet to lose the standard - I play horde armies with tons of units and 3 heralds, I personally dont run the herald so have enough units on the field to ensure the horrors dont get into combat until I am ready to charge them in (and thats happend in a few battles were some left a juicy flank open to the 'weak looking' horrors.

Standard or not to standard - this is the question!

PS - I'M VERY EXCITED AS NEXT FRIDAY I GET TO TAKE MY ENTIRE 9500 POINT DEAMON COLLECTION AGAINST MY MATES 9500 EMPIRE!!!!!!!

I'll post a both lists once I have them but highlights include....

1) All 4 greater deamons
2) 2 deamon princes
3) 75 deamonettes (3 units) with 3 heralds
4) 75 Bloodletters (3 units) with 3 heralds
5) 20 Plaugebearers with herald
6) 20 Horrors (2 units) with 2 heralds
7) 21 Flesh Hounds
8) 4 bases of Nurglings
9) 14 seekers (2 lots of 7) including 2 heralds
10) 12 Fiends of Slaanesh (4 units of 3)
11) I think I got maybe 3-4 bloodcrushers unassembled in my 'to-do' tray!

We're playing on this beautiful 8 * 4 table at this gaming club, basically one side is excellently moulded hills/cliffs, so basically Empire get to deploy were they have up to 4-5 levels of elevated posistions - most which only flyers will be able to get up.
He has over 60 Knights, and some fast cav, which will be lead by Karl Franz on his Dragon and Kurt Hellborg - these guys will arrive on a flank later in the game as reinforcements.
Statetroops and artillary will be holding the deamons at bay.
We'll take pictures and post them on Warseer in the battle report threads. Keep an eye out!

Phonox
22-08-2009, 05:54
So after having a really hard look through the book last night, and reading through the comments, wrote up this list this morning -

Bloodthirster of Khorne - 525 Points
Obsidian Armour
Firestorm Blade
(The other option I was thinking was taking the Armour of Khorne to save 35 Points, just makes him more likely to get splattered by some redonkulous Magic weapon)

Herald of Khorne - 190 Points
Firestorm Blade
Armour of Khorne
Juggernaught
(To go in the Bloodletter Unit)

Herald of Nurgle - 225 Points
Level 1 Wizard
Palaquin
Slime Trail
(To go with the Plaguebearers [Please correct me if the points total is off, as I couldn't figure out whether you had to include the price of the Palaquin with the Level 1 Wizard])

Herald of Tzeentch - 145 Points
Power Vortex
(To go in with the Horrors)

16 x Bloodletters - 247 Points
Full Command
Icon of Endless War

16 x Plaguebearers - 247 Points
Full Command
Standard of Seeping Decay (Was debating between this or the Eternal Virulence, or whether to have one at all, so welcome to comments on this)

10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch - 120 Points
(Another debate whether to increase the size of this unit, currently seems a bit flimsy)

5 x Flesh Hounds - 175 Points

3 x Nugling Bases - 105 Points

4 x Bloodcrushers - 280 Points


Total Points Cost - 2259 Points

Well there you go, looks a little bit fuller now that things have been changed up a bit -
Of course I'm always open to comments and critisisms, I'm well aware I kind of went a bit nuts in some areas, that and I'm 9 points over so any ideas on how to cut out some items and still have a punch.
The trade off of course being, I've come up against cheese lists in the past, so I'm trying to walk the fine line between a list that's not a pain in the backside to fight against, or an up-hill struggle to compete, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

In terms of models, I do have a fair few extra's floating about (I found a Lord of Change not put together in my Bits Box yesterday, so go figure), so I'm happy to chop and change the list a bit, maybe subbing out to get more core in, or subbing in some flamers, or Slaanesh models.
But let me know what you think =D

Jind_Singh
22-08-2009, 08:00
So after having a really hard look through the book last night, and reading through the comments, wrote up this list this morning -

Bloodthirster of Khorne - 525 Points
Obsidian Armour
Firestorm Blade
(The other option I was thinking was taking the Armour of Khorne to save 35 Points, just makes him more likely to get splattered by some redonkulous Magic weapon)

I used to swear by the firestorm blade..day in and day out! +1 str with fire? 25pts? WOW! Until a stupid game when a puny elf hero looked like a great scalp for Lord Khorne - so I challenged him. And the damn elf is immune to fire attacks! Within 3 turns my thirster died from losing to static combat res. A dwarf lord did the same to another thirster in a different game. So I advise leave the firestorm to the heralds - too much of a liability for a thirster. My typical build is dark insanity (2D6 + 2 attacks), armour of Khorne (3+ save), immortal fury (re-roll attacks). This is a powerful build for me as it means I have anywere from 4 to 14 attacks, average of nine attacks -most of which will hit, most will wound, meaning a lone thirster has good chance of actually charging a massive unit of infantary and WINNING!! I read about Obsidian armour and on the face of it...not bad! but then I thought theres only 4 characters who can take magic weapons, at least 2 of them wont carry magic weapons (being wizzards for eg) so am I not wasting points? So I take cheaper armour of khorne. This will also help drop his points cost.

Herald of Khorne - 190 Points
Firestorm Blade
Armour of Khorne
Juggernaught
(To go in the Bloodletter Unit)
cookie cutter herald, nuff said
Herald of Nurgle - 225 Points
Level 1 Wizard
Palaquin
Slime Trail
(To go with the Plaguebearers [Please correct me if the points total is off, as I couldn't figure out whether you had to include the price of the Palaquin with the Level 1 Wizard])
115pts + 50pts + 50pts + whatever slime trial costs maybe 10?

Herald of Tzeentch - 145 Points
Power Vortex
(To go in with the Horrors)
yah, no worries here either
16 x Bloodletters - 247 Points
Full Command
Icon of Endless War
both icons work fine, some love to march always, some love to charge super fast first turn
16 x Plaguebearers - 247 Points
Full Command
Standard of Seeping Decay (Was debating between this or the Eternal Virulence, or whether to have one at all, so welcome to comments on this)
again fine, personally i like adding posion attacks to my combat res, but re-rolling to wound is great to
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch - 120 Points
(Another debate whether to increase the size of this unit, currently seems a bit flimsy)
you know what since you have 3 core units theres no harm in taking both units and putting them into one big 20 strong unit, it boosts their magic level
5 x Flesh Hounds - 175 Points

3 x Nugling Bases - 105 Points

4 x Bloodcrushers - 280 Points

all of the above are fine
Total Points Cost - 2259 Points

Well there you go, looks a little bit fuller now that things have been changed up a bit -
Of course I'm always open to comments and critisisms, I'm well aware I kind of went a bit nuts in some areas, that and I'm 9 points over so any ideas on how to cut out some items and still have a punch.
The trade off of course being, I've come up against cheese lists in the past, so I'm trying to walk the fine line between a list that's not a pain in the backside to fight against, or an up-hill struggle to compete, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

In terms of models, I do have a fair few extra's floating about (I found a Lord of Change not put together in my Bits Box yesterday, so go figure), so I'm happy to chop and change the list a bit, maybe subbing out to get more core in, or subbing in some flamers, or Slaanesh models.
But let me know what you think =D

I like your new list, theres a few tweaks you could play here and there - ie Bloodthirster - but it's a great list. It's got some scary units parked in there, but at the same time it's not the optimum cheese overload. The fact that the army lacks flamers, tons of horrors, multiple units of hounds means no one can cry over the list. It's still fairly tough though, if you ever want to wimp it out in the future swap out the bloodletter for deamonetters, and the herald of khorne for slaanesh
best of luck deamon lord

fubukii
22-08-2009, 19:56
go with vapors on the herald of nurgle.
Immortal fury on thrister
add a bsb
drop 2 letters to make the unit 6x3.
drop nurglings for furies
drop 1 blood crusher ( you dont really need 4.....) I may suggest taking flamers instead as well.