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Pherom Sichar
21-08-2009, 19:00
After getting all excited by the Space Hulk terminators but not wanting to jump on the newly-expanded Blood Angels bandwagon, I pulled out the couple of marines that I had painted as Lamenters and have been working on an army of them.

However, I have a few questions that have come up in digging through sources:

Which shoulder pad should have the chequered pattern and chapter insignia?

While they follow the codex, they don't seem to use traditional company colours on the shoulderpad rims (and in some pictures the rim on the chapter pad is always white). Do they use another method like some of the chapters highlighted in the current Codex: Space Marines (it appears the Silver Skulls use squad marking colours to denote company and the Eagle Warriors seem to use their left kneepads)?

I remember reading somewhere that they lost their fleet following the Badab war - if this is the case, how did they manage to get into the jaws of Kraken on their penitent crusade?

Lastly, while some sources differ on how many Lamenters survived the Tyranid attacks (between 1 and 3 companies), three companies seems to be the more widely accepted. How would these companies be organized?

Thank you in advance!

grissom2006
21-08-2009, 19:05
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lamenters Beyond that i doubt you'll get many more sources on them other than off fans.

Governor Gallagher
21-08-2009, 19:16
I think back in the day they had company color denoted by a helmet stripe, but I can't quite remember. In reality it's all up to you since there is really no authority on that point when it comes to them; all of the official cannon makes no mention of such things (I believe I've read it all). I personally went with shoulder rims for company and the left pad for the chapter symbol; though I did paint a batch when I was really tired and accidentally switched sides when I painted them...

Alpharius
21-08-2009, 19:26
I think that since the chequered pattern and chapter insignia are shown here on the right shoulder pad, you should probably just move it to the left, since the 'modern' Marine has his squad designation on the right pad now.

They are a really cool chapter, rather mysterious and with a great paint scheme.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

Pherom Sichar
21-08-2009, 19:42
They are a really cool chapter, rather mysterious and with a great paint scheme.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

I'm glad you think so - most people don't think of "cool" when they hear about a chapter that has a heart as its symbol and cries a lot.

Thank you for your replies so far!

Okay, since it all seems to be fairly flexible, let me know what you think of this:

Chapter badge on the left shoulder to modernize the chapter - the only exception being terminators (obviously) and veterans.
I like having one shoulder pad with white trim, so I think I'll denote company by the colour of the squad symbols (so a green tactical arrow for fourth co., red for third, etc).
I'm really torn on using the helmet stripe as well - I think it makes the models seem a little too busy but I want to stay fairly true to the background and images that I have seen.
If I were a chapter master and my chapter was decimated, I'd probably round up the survivors, keep all of the battle companies in tact (even if combined temporarily) and move surviving reserve company marines to fill in the gaps. So I could see the three companies being half of the first company and half of each of the five battle companies. This also will allow me to more easily represent the different battle companies in my army.
As for the transportation problem (if it is one - I'm still looking for that source) - I think I may include a squad of Scythes of the Emperor that are there to "keep an eye" on the Lamenters. Then it can be assumed that they either have their own vessel but are being watched or that they are being transported on a Scythes of the Emperor ship.

I'll get back to you on the helmet stripes once I can see how it looks on a model.

baphomael
21-08-2009, 21:11
After getting all excited by the Space Hulk terminators but not wanting to jump on the newly-expanded Blood Angels bandwagon, I pulled out the couple of marines that I had painted as Lamenters and have been working on an army of them.

However, I have a few questions that have come up in digging through sources:

Which shoulder pad should have the chequered pattern and chapter insignia?

While they follow the codex, they don't seem to use traditional company colours on the shoulderpad rims (and in some pictures the rim on the chapter pad is always white). Do they use another method like some of the chapters highlighted in the current Codex: Space Marines (it appears the Silver Skulls use squad marking colours to denote company and the Eagle Warriors seem to use their left kneepads)?

I remember reading somewhere that they lost their fleet following the Badab war - if this is the case, how did they manage to get into the jaws of Kraken on their penitent crusade?

Lastly, while some sources differ on how many Lamenters survived the Tyranid attacks (between 1 and 3 companies), three companies seems to be the more widely accepted. How would these companies be organized?

Thank you in advance!


In regards to the shoulder pads - the chequered pattern has switched shoulders. Originally, Lamenters had the check pattern on their right shoulder and had a red stripe on their forehead. Nowerdays, they have the check on their left shoulder with no helmet stripe.

Leftenant Gashrog
21-08-2009, 21:29
In regards to the shoulder pads - the chequered pattern has switched shoulders. Originally, Lamenters had the check pattern on their right shoulder and had a red stripe on their forehead. Nowerdays, they have the check on their left shoulder with no helmet stripe.

Quoted for Truth. The example in How to Paint Space Marines and the BL Chapters of the Astartes poster has gold chest eagle & pad trims and black squad markings. (and for those who don't know - swapping the pad and dropping the helmet stripe was the same method used for almost every other chapter with a Mk6 scheme: Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Blood Drinkers, Silver Skulls, Iron Hands, White Scars, Crimson Fists etc..)

On the non-canon front, there was a Lamenters mod for Dawn of War which had a rather good scheme, the trims were black whilst the checker pattern was limited to a bar above and below the chapter badge rather than the entire pad, it occured to me that this could actually serve as the company marking: the codex astartes includes generic heraldry for each companies officers: 1st company has a white cross, 2nd company has a vertical yellow stripe, 3rd has a diagonal red one etc. Lamenters could actually use this for all marines to denote company - having the marking in the checkered pattern on a yellow pad.

Pherom Sichar
22-08-2009, 12:41
On the non-canon front, there was a Lamenters mod for Dawn of War which had a rather good scheme, the trims were black whilst the checker pattern was limited to a bar above and below the chapter badge rather than the entire pad, it occured to me that this could actually serve as the company marking:

I think the reason for the bar in the DoW mod is so it would look close to being right when applied to a shoulder pad without looking out of place when applied to the flat surfaces of vehicles.


the codex astartes includes generic heraldry for each companies officers: 1st company has a white cross, 2nd company has a vertical yellow stripe, 3rd has a diagonal red one etc. Lamenters could actually use this for all marines to denote company - having the marking in the checkered pattern on a yellow pad.

This is really interesting - any chance of a company by company breakdown of the prescribed heraldic fields?

Thanks again!

Leftenant Gashrog
22-08-2009, 21:04
This is really interesting - any chance of a company by company breakdown of the prescribed heraldic fields?


Above: canon Ultrasmurf/Codex (actually the Dark Angels heraldry is also similar to this)
Below: hypothetical lamenter heraldry combined with chapter badge on left pad

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/lamenterpads.jpg

Pherom Sichar
23-08-2009, 14:35
Excellent! It's a little late to use on everybody - but I will consider it when the time comes to paint my captain!