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Bregalad
22-08-2009, 00:08
Summary deleted by original poster.

Fire Harte
22-08-2009, 00:38
Awesome thanks to everyone involved for finding the rumours. :)

Wow I didn't realise how big the SH broodlord really was! :eek:

jesusjohn
22-08-2009, 00:56
Awsome, they need updating for 5th. maybe plastic gargoles? We live in hope

Witch King of Angmar
22-08-2009, 01:56
Awsome, they need updating for 5th. maybe plastic gargoles? We live in hope

Would make sense, but i cant wait to see what the new model bigger then a fex might be!

HsojVvad
22-08-2009, 02:01
You mentioned about basing problems. There is no basing problems at all, as someone on B&C mentioned.

If we go by RAW, you have to use the the bases that are provided originally from the mini. So since it's based already and came with it, it is legal. The only problem is for asthetic reasons. But they will be legal since they are on original bases and is a GW product.

PhalanxLord
22-08-2009, 02:30
Special characters including Old One Eye will return (including Red Terror?). They are not meant as individuals, but more like mutated survivors of a big war (says Kelly).

IIRC that part was speculation by a board member, not something quoted from Phil Kelly.

Cadian144
22-08-2009, 02:52
um...something that came my way today. Regretably I cant say anything about my scource. But I was told none of the new stealers are going to be part of the new Nids release in early 2010.

I mean its possible this could be in error...but he was very to the point. saying " these were only for SH, not as part of the new release" parts of them may appear but as a whole, no...:wtf:

Anyone else heard anything along this line ? Seems to make sense but who knows.

shabbadoo
22-08-2009, 02:59
The redid genestealers for the last codex, and if the unit is not going to change then the models are not likely going to change either. They'll put more effort into getting more metal units switched over to plastic, plus new units made. What would you rather have new and in plastic? Yet another version of Genestealers, or a Hive Tyrant, Tyrant Guard, Raveners, Garygoyles, a re-designed Biovore and spore mines, Zoanthropes? And then of course there are 3 other new species besides the Trygon to do, and likely in plastic. As one can see, there are a lot better candidates for a plastic set than Genestealers, so it would be no big deal to skip them this time around.

Last time around Jes Goodwin said they would have liked to have also done the Hive Tyrant in plastic too but, if I recall correctly, they couldn't fit it into the schedule. Well, they've had plenty of time to fit in in now, so I wouldn't be too leery of this rumor. Looking at the model, you can see how easily it would translate to plastic.

4 new species sounds interesting though- Trygon and 3 others. We could be talking some other big stuff here too- not only the Trygon but an Exocrine, Malefactor, or something else along those lines. There's quite a few Tyranid critters that could be taken from EPIC and various bits of fluff. Bugs could end up being very tempting. 2010 is going to be a hard year on the old wallet I think. I haven't read too many Tyranid stories of late, but some newer ones may make mention of some odd new species. People will have to keep an eye out for stuff like that in the near future. ;)

Geep
22-08-2009, 03:00
Thanks for the rumour gathering Bregalad

I wouldn't be surprised if the Space Hulk genestealers are Space Hulk only. GW clearly wants this release to be something special. Still, there's no reason you couldn't use them in game.

Are there any hints on what the 4 new creatures are, other than the Trygon? Does the count of 4 include the 'special characters'? If they re-do the old special characters that would make 3 of the 4 new creatures known already.

I'm not sure I'm that keen on a Trygon in regular lists... I like everything about it, but they'd really have to neuter its rules alot...

destroyerlord
22-08-2009, 03:02
They are board game pieces. Why would anyone think they ever would be released separately for use in 40k?

Vhalyar
22-08-2009, 03:28
Thanks for the rumour gathering BregaladAre there any hints on what the 4 new creatures are, other than the Trygon? Does the count of 4 include the 'special characters'? If they re-do the old special characters that would make 3 of the 4 new creatures known already.

I'm not sure I'm that keen on a Trygon in regular lists... I like everything about it, but they'd really have to neuter its rules alot...


Kelly confirmed 4 new races never before in a Tyranid Codex, with one of them dwarfing the Carnifex.

I don't know, does that answer your question? ;)

DCLXVI
22-08-2009, 03:41
In the closed thread, Max Jet said "Yes and last year the words from the sculpting team was something like "We would all like to make a plastic Tyrant, but we don't know if it would sell enough"

The way for them to get round that would be to make the Tyrant 1+. Of course everyone could just recycle their old Tyrant, so they'd have to give it some bling or a decent set of wings to make it sell.
Hopefully we'll see some new critters and plastic gargoyles and raveners as well. The current models are so hideously expensive that I don't bother with them at all..

Chem-Dog
22-08-2009, 04:24
They are board game pieces. Why would anyone think they ever would be released separately for use in 40k?

Previous experience with GW and "limited edition" figures OR the simple fact it's one or two sprues that could easily be released in the growing "bitz" range, take your pick :)


In the closed thread, Max Jet said "Yes and last year the words from the sculpting team was something like "We would all like to make a plastic Tyrant, but we don't know if it would sell enough"

The way for them to get round that would be to make the Tyrant 1+. Of course everyone could just recycle their old Tyrant, so they'd have to give it some bling or a decent set of wings to make it sell.
Hopefully we'll see some new critters and plastic gargoyles and raveners as well. The current models are so hideously expensive that I don't bother with them at all..



Another way to boost sales potential of this relatively niche model would be to make the kit a prime contender for representing other models in the range, either existing ones (a Lictor from a multipart plastic Tyrant wouldn't be inconcievable) or new ones (I dunno, some kind of Warrior "veteran sergeant" perhaps) by having alternative parts in the kit or by fiddling with the Tyrant options sufficiently that people want the new kit to represent these new Tyrant types (A ravenor variant perhaps, winged variant almost certainly, zoanthope type? Carnifex type??).
It's worth pointing out that only the more "popular" armies seem to get a plastic HQ kit (the SM Captain and CSM Termi Lord) While Plastic HQ's for "less popular" armies are yet to be seen (Autarch, Warboss, Daemon Prince/Herald).

As for big stuff, I could see the Trygon being released but can't see how the beast in Bregalad's summary could possibly be made 40K friendly without making it little more than a "Snakefex", I'd much rather hope that the creature were released as an Apoc unit alongside the Codex in a similar way to the Stompa's release.

If I could cast a vote on what oldschool creature were to get a revamp and release for the Nids it would be the Dominatrix, originally an ugly brain baby in a bone cradle on the back of a giant space cow, virtually any reinvention would be welcome and a different HQ option couldn't hurt.

Dwane Diblie
22-08-2009, 04:32
Bring back the Zoates and Nid Squigs. They where never in an offical Codex. Infack the only place I ever saw them was on the back page of one of the 2nd ed rule books.

Witch King of Angmar
22-08-2009, 05:13
im thinking nids will get new hq choice's takeing a page from dawn of war with "alpha" Creatures perhaps?

Cadian144
22-08-2009, 05:46
Part of what I have heard is that all of the races are getting things for Apoc games, so like the baneblade for the Imperium, other armys will start getting things like that, Nids no exception.

I think the comment at the GD in germany, was they just said nids, but not breaking it down to say part of this would be for Apoc not just 40K. I think the large beastie might get mentioned in the Codex, and then have an update in WD with all its stats for Apocalypse.

Again some of the things little birds have told me.:angel:

Anyone have anything else a bit along this line...?

chaos0xomega
22-08-2009, 05:55
Wait... isn't a trygon a gargantuan creature?

Clang
22-08-2009, 06:45
4 new _species_? I'd only heard 4 new plastic _boxes_, i.e. other than the Trygon they could be existing species (e.g. a Tyrant) or even recut existing models (e.g. the two types of gaunts split into separate sprues).

chaos0xomega
22-08-2009, 06:57
No clang, the rumor was 4 new species that have never been in a tyranid codex before.

Deus Mechanicus
22-08-2009, 07:23
I think there were some early rumours that genestealers would be moved to the elite slot. Personally thats the rumour thats keeping me away from nids atm ... I cant stand the gaunt models... Id hate if id turn out theyd be the only scoring unit in the army... unless there are new models or a new troop choice

Cadian144
22-08-2009, 07:25
yah if the tyragon makes it out, which...i think is 100% ( I will put money on it if asked ;)) it will be a gargantuan creature. ie more suited for Apoc games than 40K

I think we will see things for most of the races in 40K with something that keeps them in the game for Apoc as well as 40K. the rumor i have been hearing is a lot of the metal figs will be now plastic, and that there would be 4 new things, no clue if the tyrgon is part of those 4 or someting else, so maybe 5 as that would IMO be more for Apocalypse rules than the 40K nids codex.

my 2 cents ;)

Angelwing
22-08-2009, 09:18
Better save my pennies for next year. Cheers for the pictures and rumours!

silverstu
22-08-2009, 09:37
Cheers for posting these Bregalad- nice to have somewhere to discuss these rumours. I think a plastic tryant kit is a definite- Jes has stated he has wanted to do it[with wings!] since the last codex came out. It was also rumoured in the watchman a couple of years ago alongside plastic gargoyles and raveners[as well as space hulk]. plus GW seem to be heading to extending the plastic ranges even further with every release. One thing Jes mentioned when interviewed on warpshadow after the last dex was new plastic kits could mean new biomorphs, geno fixed species may become mutable. Warriors might get a new biomorph sprue for new options in that case. As for new creatures? Possibly from forgeworld? Malanthrope/trygon/Mieotic Spore sacks? I'd like to see more variety in the larger creatures- maybe something new and big[ish] in the fast attack slot. Looking forward to the new release.

On the subject of special characters Phil Kelly mentioned this -"I was keen to do a gravid Hive Tyrant that spews Rippers from its womb as a special character," - which i think sounds awesome. Jes didn't have a problem with special characters- he saw them as simply a specialized mutation.
The link for this interview[done when the previous codex came out] is-
http://tasty.warpshadow.com/piece.htm

I think it's insightful. On another note Moloch's site has been put under "Inquisitional quarantine". The plot thickens....:D

Max Jet
22-08-2009, 09:59
Wait... isn't a trygon a gargantuan creature?

In the last rules it is only as resistent as a tooled up Carnifex (which by the way can be tooled up more than the Trigon was in the rules)

xerxeshavelock
22-08-2009, 10:30
On another note Moloch's site has been put under "Inquisitional quarantine". The plot thickens....:D

Ooh, Mr Tyranid himself! Gosh, this imo is more telling than anything else I've heard.

If he didn't have something to do with the SH stealers directly I'll bet he was involved conceptually.

Bregalad
22-08-2009, 11:21
1.) Concerning the Space Hulk miniatures. As I said in the summary, technically they are only gaming pieces in the SH game, that just happen to be the same scale as 40k. And we don't know if they will ever be released separately afterwards (although it would be stupid not to use those metal moulds at least for "mail order only", when there is such a demand), but many Tyranid players me included will buy SH and use those minis as their regular brood lord and genestealers, as they are too good to let pass. So I included them as "honorable mention" in the summary. Hope this clears things up.

2.) GW gives us conflicting signals. On the one side they want to convert all army units into plastic, on the other side they consider not doing major units like the Hive Tyrant because of economic issues. It is quite obvious that not all characters and rare units will sell enough for making plastic kits economically, so they should really rethink their 100% plastic plan, instead of giving us Goldswords or just discontinuing essential army choices. Metal miniatures are fine and economical for smaller runs and should stay.

3.) I am not keen on a new Biovore. I really like the current Medusa V version. And the biovore got so many new versions that it should be the others' turn now.

4.) Although it would be fine to have a Malefactor transport as a model, my guess is that the big one is the Trygon only. Concerning its size: The Trygon torso is about the same size as the Carnifex torso, only the snake body and the pose make it that large. Pointwise and sizewise (my guess 3 sprues possible like the Carnifex, 4 with wings) it fits perfectly into normal armies. "Gargantuan size" and other Apocalypse rules can be overcome, as shown with the non-flying Valkyrie in the IG Codex (funny, same author ;)). That said, the summary was intended as being about the normal release, Apocalypse releases aside.

5.) I was hoping for a retro reintroduction of Genestealer cult and Hybrids, but alas, they were in an old Codex and therefore don't qualify for being one of the 4 new races.

6.) Concerning the 4 new races, Kelly said he would like to see gaunts with snake bodies, but said it in a way that it sounded like pure wishlisting on his side.

7.) I am quite certain we get plastic gargoyles, as everyone agrees this is the most wanted plastic kit.

Max Jet
22-08-2009, 11:58
GW gives us conflicting signals. On the one side they want to convert all army units into plastic, on the other side they consider not doing major units like the Hive Tyrant because of economic issues. It is quite obvious that not all characters and rare units will sell enough for making plastic kits economically, so they should really rethink their 100% plastic plan, instead of giving us Goldswords or just discontinuing essential army choices. Metal miniatures are fine and economical for smaller runs and should stay.

This is true, as I heard the statements from the design teams about possible models when the Codex was in the "Development Phase" I was pretty dissappointed. It was originally intended to provide the current Hyve Tyrant as plastic kit. GW is working on expanding their market, yet they are constantly hindering themselves to do so. I think they meant 100% plastics when the market is large enough to justify it, so we won't see 100% plastic armies of not so popular races until GW has enough costumers, but we won't see as much costumers with their current policies (I stopped buying their models during their metal price rise)


3.) I am not keen on a new Biovore. I really like the current Medusa V version. And the biovore got so many new versions that it should be the others' turn now.

Funny eh? That was the third try! Maybe they will try a completely new design at last (hopefully not again a Head and two arms + fat boddy with a cannon growing out of the back). Still it is more or less confirmed that we get another model. Can't say anything about the new rules, but if they are good enough .. possibly a plastic kit.


5.) I was hoping for a retro reintroduction of Genestealer cult and Hybrids, but alas, they were in an old Codex and therefore don't qualify for being one of the 4 new races.

My money is on the Malanthrope (Too much physics.. forgotten the names of my beloved Tyranids XD)... I am not quite sure about the meiotic spore though. Wouldn't be surprised about a new heavy support though (even with the Trigon and new biovore)


7.) I am quite certain we get plastic gargoyles, as everyone agrees this is the most wanted plastic kit.

Don't know wether this is trustworthy, but they might even be included in the new battleforce.
Anyway I expect the Carnifex to vanish from it.

shabbadoo
22-08-2009, 12:03
Anyone have anything else a bit along this line...?

Yes. Hunt through the rumor forum here for some really old threads pre-dating, or barley post-dating, the release of the Baneblade and Apocalypse and you will find all of these same rumors your little birds told you.

As to Biovores, who says they need a big cannon built into them? They could just spit the spores,which like little parasites/symbiotes grow in the the Biovore's stomach. The Biovore regurgitates one of them at a time up into a chamber in its throat, like a bird's gizzard, air intake tubes on their bodies suck in air, internal air pressure builds in an air sack bullfrog-like, then they open a tiny sphincter inside the body which releases the pressurized air into the gizzard and they puke/blast the spore skyward. A big fat weird 'Nid bug on a 40mm base. The designers could go in any number of directions with the development of the Biovore.

Souleater
22-08-2009, 12:31
The big FW spore sack of death would be great as a replacement for the current FA spore drop. That really is a poor use of points.

As to the plastic tryant...I've seen many people convert Fexes into Tyrants...Might GW decide to tweak the Fex kit a bit, throw in the extra options et volia?

Aside from plastic Gargoyles the one unit that really needs a decent revamp is the Tyrant Guard. They need to be at least the size of the 2nd Ed Fex and actually look good. So far they've looked like teenage mutant ninja turtles who've been starved of pizza and some huddled little ball.

I agree that stealers don't need redoing. The current kit is great and while I really like the SH 'stealers it isn't worth 'losing' a plastic kit slot.

I am intrigued by the suggestion of plastic 'cross-kits', though. If we get more mid sized creatures could we see a kit that lets us make Warriors, or Lictors or Raveners or Creature X out of the same box? It would be a big box but the duplication of weapons, torsos, etc could lead to lots of conversion possibilities.

What I would like to know is if Nids will move away from the current limited selection of weapons. The current scaling to the creature carrying is cute and all but leads to some oddities.

As to biomorphs I wonder if we will get fewer of them but they will be more useful. That would save a lot of space and follow the current trend of simplification. I know a 'customization' is often touted as a Nid Schtick but we tend to use the same cookie cutter loadouts and leave certain biomorphs to rot.

What I would really, really like to know is if we are going to be returning to the glory days of 2nd Edition where we we feared by everything else in assault but our shooting was very much weaker.

Max Jet
22-08-2009, 12:39
As to Biovores, who says they need a big cannon built into them? They could just spit the spores,which like little parasits/symbiotes grow the the Biovore's stomach. Teh Biovore hawks them up into a chamber in its throat, like a bird's gizzard, air intake tubes on their bodies suck in air, internal air pressure builds in an air sack, then they open a tiny sphincter inside the body which releases the pressurized air into the gizzard and they puke/blast the spore skyward. A big fat weird 'Nid bug on a 40mm base. The designers could go in any number of directions with the development of the Biovore.

I truly hope so, it would be nice to actually see some pictures of it, though you will hear my fourth (and final) scream of disappointment throughout the known world when it looks like a more detailed version of the last three or like Molochs Version.

shabbadoo
22-08-2009, 12:41
A Raveners/Warriors combo box would be the easy one, seeing as the torso separates perfectly to accommodate the lower snake body. Add a few other body modifying bits like armor plates and variant heads just to differentiate the unit types a bit more and that's about all that is needed. I'm fully in favor of combo kits where possible.

Captain Micha
22-08-2009, 12:46
am I the only one kind of saddened by the Nids coming out next?

I understand "Micha shut up. DOW II is still new and Space Hulk just came out, they'd be stupid not to capitalize on that". But still damn, gawd I wish their release policies weren't so stupidly handled.

Congrats on you bug guys eeking one out of GW. On a semi related note, who do you have to bribe or give "favors" to get your codex released when you aren't Space Marines?

Plastic Ravenors please. And a Plastic Hive Tyrant... that thing right now could be a Home Defense Weapon it's so heavy.

Max Jet
22-08-2009, 12:55
You are right, I too think Necrons or Dark Eldar deserve it more, but I guess we should all be happy that it isn't another Space Marine release, shouldn't we? Now I would feel guilty, but I am still not sure wether I will buy some of the new stuff (have to take a look at the price first) and still.. I think the bazillion space Marine releases should be more of a concern, but that is totaly off topic, so just let's move back.

Souleater
22-08-2009, 13:00
Seriously, Micha, shut the heck up! Naw, I'm just kidding with you.

Nids are my main army but I'd much prefer Dark Eldar or Necron to get some lovein'. Like Jes crooning Barry White-like over their embryonic forms as he sculpts them to perfection. However, as you say Nids have got some air time recently so it is unsurprising that they might be next.

At least it is a Xeno Codex.

Now be quiet and lay down in that digestion pool, please :D

Captain Micha
22-08-2009, 13:19
I heard digestion pools gave you cancer so no! I became an Undead Space Robot to avoid cancer! :p

All I gotta say is my codex better be worth the wait.

Does anyone have any clues what is happening to the Lictor? or is Gw still in Happy Denial Land about it's viability (or rather lack there of)

shabbadoo
22-08-2009, 13:30
All I gotta say is my codex better be worth the wait.

Nobody is ever fully satisfied it seems, so be prepared to love-hate it.

Oh, and keep hydrated so you are sure to spit a lot when you yell about it(that's always great for effect). :D

Captain Micha
22-08-2009, 13:35
well the Ig one was easily worth it.

*notes to stay hydrated just incase*

I take it, I get bonus points for raving spittle landing on someone's face and if I'm foaming at the mouth too?

Bregalad
22-08-2009, 14:27
1.) I also think that the current standard Genestealers are fine, I even like the current Brood Lord. But the SH miniatures are really good. And they come as a bonus release for us and don't take away a plastic slot, because they count towards Space Hulk slots, not Tyranids.

2.) Two things I would hate to see: Genestealers not standard anymore (unfluffy, nerfing them and the whole army) and Carnifexes losing their Elite slot ability. Too many people would have to throw away 2-3 Carnifexes.

3.) Concerning Codex schedule: Tyranids need more anti-tank. Just returned from a tournament and was confronted with 4 Rhino Rushes and one Land Raider rush (Grey Knights with the "ignore rulebook and just make leadershiptest to instakill Carnifex/Tyrant" hero). 3 Zoantrophs are not enough and not good enough to deal with that. So Tyranids need a new Codex soon. And with an official like Phil Kelly speaking freely of the new Tyranid Codex, I think we will see a January release.

4.) 4 new races does not necessarily mean 4 new boxes. Remember the Hellhound kit with Hellhound and 2 new units that are just variants.

5.) Mieotic Spore Sacks would be a nice replacement for the FA spores. The Malanthrope is also a nice model, haven't used him in games yet. But I am hoping for more than just cheaper plastic versions of resin models I already own. Something completely new and inspiring. But I wouldn't complain about a plastic Harridan for Apocalypse ;)

6.) That reminds me: Currently we have NO specific GW Tyranid wings, only FW wings and GW bitz. Introducing wings might be a new theme for the next release.

BTW: Micha shut up! ;) GW never cares about release schedules of other companies, see DoW Soulstorm with still no Inquisition and Dark Eldar in sight.

Adra
22-08-2009, 15:15
Tyranids need more anti-tank. Just returned from a tournament and was confronted with 4 Rhino Rushes and one Land Raider rush (Grey Knights with the "ignore rulebook and just make leadershiptest to instakill Carnifex/Tyrant" hero). 3 Zoantrophs are not enough and not good enough to deal with that.

Well we havent seen them for a while so how about bringing back the Exocrine in some sort of lesser (smaller) form? Its a slug with a gun on its back! Maybe have them is small groups of three to form a sort of heavy weapon team.

Bolter Bait
22-08-2009, 16:00
Bring back the Zoates and Nid Squigs. They where never in an offical Codex. Infack the only place I ever saw them was on the back page of one of the 2nd ed rule books.Ack, no way. I'm glad those units went the way of the Squats. Yeah, they were fun and weird back in the day, but they really don't have a place anymore with the current Tyranids. Same with Grabber-slashers. :rolleyes:

My take on the 4 "new, never been in codex" species?
Malanthrope (No model but FW)
Death Leaper (use Lictor)
Taloned Horror (No model but conversion notes)
Trygon (plastic already exists)

Rules for all and models for most already exist. A shortcut I fully expect to be taken with the book.

Citizen Lame
22-08-2009, 16:34
I'm a Nid player and although I'm happy about this I really feel for the guys who want to see some new Dark Eldar stuff released. Throw them a bone GW.

In terms of the Nid army, I'd really like to see a redesigned Biovore most of all. Either that or replace it with a different model altogether. Its just ugly.

Monachus
22-08-2009, 16:56
1.)Genestealers not standard anymore

I don't believe this is that likely,
whilst I don't hear a huge amount one thing I have heard is that a lot of the people involved wanted to make tyranid warriors into troops and not elites, if they were even considering that then turning genestealers to elites sounds doubly unlikely

Dark Primus
22-08-2009, 19:13
Speaking of rumors a friend of mine claims Phil Kelly has stated the following: "fexes will come in squads..."

I haven't seen such a quote from Phil Kelly himself stating that so I am not buying it.

Max Jet
22-08-2009, 19:21
It's true as far as I know although Phil Kelly did not say. I cannot say anything concerning the restrictions other than they have to be equiped the same.. I am sure there was some...

TimLeeson
22-08-2009, 19:32
Mietic Spore-sacks would be awesome if they did those in plastic, would be a cheap way to increase my enslaver army!

as for the nid release itself, well a breath of fresh air after orks and imperial stuff dominating. The rules should be good, as I thought IG dex was pretty well written rules-wise, and obviously I hope to see nids get more plastic love with those gargoyles ect.

gaunts with snake bodies would be cool, may tempt me to actually collect nids as I hate aliens with legs. Snake bodies would fix that.

Backround wise however, I dread the new codex. The imperial guard dex as I said while awesome rules-wise was the most dull and boring thing to read from a fluff perspective - added nothing new or interesting, too much focus on the same two boring regiments ect.. I sure hope the nids get better fluff than that...

Max Jet
22-08-2009, 19:49
Mietic Spore-sacks would be awesome if they did those in plastic, would be a cheap way to increase my enslaver army!

I wouldn't bet on that, actually I have no idea how many plastic kits we can expect but it won't be as much as we have seen in the Ork Range most certainly. That's why I am not even trusting the Hyve Tyrant talks right now.

silverstu
22-08-2009, 20:09
Yeah- I wouldn't think we'd get the same attention as orks- they needed it more. Hard to tell what we might get-since they are moving towards more plastic. What did guard get? 2 new command sets, a valk, reworked sentinals and some tank variants in the second wave? Maybe 2-3 kits and some refreshed kits[new biomorph sprues for the warriors?]. I'd really like to see a larger new creature appear[not as big as a fex but bigger than warriors/ravs]. Still gargoyles will be awesome [still keen on the plastic tyrant too.. with wings!!].

HsojVvad
22-08-2009, 21:08
Just curious, now that GW is so tight lipped, do you think we will get leaks of the new completed Tyranid codex? My guess is no, but who knows.

chaos0xomega
22-08-2009, 22:12
2.) Two things I would hate to see: Genestealers not standard anymore (unfluffy, nerfing them and the whole army) and Carnifexes losing their Elite slot ability. Too many people would have to throw away 2-3 Carnifexes.



You forget GW's new logic line for removing things: "You can use them in games of Apocalypse or Planetstrike!"



3.) Concerning Codex schedule: Tyranids need more anti-tank. Just returned from a tournament and was confronted with 4 Rhino Rushes and one Land Raider rush (Grey Knights with the "ignore rulebook and just make leadershiptest to instakill Carnifex/Tyrant" hero). 3 Zoantrophs are not enough and not good enough to deal with that. So Tyranids need a new Codex soon. And with an official like Phil Kelly speaking freely of the new Tyranid Codex, I think we will see a January release.

Tyranid Anti-tank is called Monstrous Creatures in CC, although I wouldn't mind if they got some sort of bio-acid grenades for the lesser troops.

As for Phil Kelly speaking freely, I think we'll know for sure within a month or so. The GW newsletter I got today revealed a skaven release in November, so by my math, if they are a January release, GW will announce in late september/october.


Speaking of rumors a friend of mine claims Phil Kelly has stated the following: "fexes will come in squads..."


This is how rumors start... before it goes any further, NO, it was not Phil Kelly that first said this. It was in fact a random member of Warseer about a month or two ago that suggested that they allow 1-3 Carnifexes per Heavy Support choice instead of allowing Carnifexes to be taken as elites.


Just curious, now that GW is so tight lipped, do you think we will get leaks of the new completed Tyranid codex? My guess is no, but who knows.

We haven't seen such a leak since... I'd say apoc. The last major one I remember was the Ork codex actually. Safe bet that GW plugged the hole.

Vhalyar
22-08-2009, 22:38
We haven't seen such a leak since... I'd say apoc. The last major one I remember was the Ork codex actually. Safe bet that GW plugged the hole.

Well, there was a bit of the new IG codex leaked by accident from the GW France website. And by bit I mean the entire unit and weapons list if I remember right.

Edit: Over at Warpshadow they are talking about a new Tyranid Warrior model, but that just seems like a bit of rumor confusion. The current Warriors are beautiful... unless it's just the wished-for Warrior/Ravener box merge.

silverstu
22-08-2009, 23:03
I think the warrior rumour is just confusion-someone "thought they might redo the warriors" has been confused with "they are redoing the warriors". They might get a refresh/new biomorphs- but that is just pure guess work. I think we will be waiting until after october/possibly november before we get more more. I was surprised by what we got already in terms of rumour. GW seemed to have really tightened up on the leaks- Wolves are relatively close and there has been very little seen so far.

Max Jet
22-08-2009, 23:57
Gulity

That was me, sorry guys. 1,5 years ago I heard a statement considering possibly new Tyranid Warriors, but I confused that part. Unfortunately with the new rumours floating around I absolutely HAD to get to know this, so I asked questions wherever I could.
NO! The Tyranid Warrior rumour has absolutely no base! It was just a persistent question by me. Sorry guys.


This is how rumors start... before it goes any further, NO, it was not Phil Kelly that first said this. It was in fact a random member of Warseer about a month or two ago that suggested that they allow 1-3 Carnifexes per Heavy Support choice instead of allowing Carnifexes to be taken as elites.

Actually it has been talked to death in 2005 after the release of the Nid codex. Carnifice broods were one of the ideas being tossed around but rejected because they were considered to be too powerful. Fun fact. The idea of LRBT Squadrons though was mentioned years ago too.


We haven't seen such a leak since... I'd say apoc. The last major one I remember was the Ork codex actually. Safe bet that GW plugged the hole.

I think the policy of keeping secrets won't last very long, after all these people love to talk about their job don't they? And frankly we know almost nothing.

Warpcrafter
23-08-2009, 00:32
I want them to make plastic kits of all the old cephalopod creatures that used to be made by Armorcast. They were unofficial but came with datafaxes. I never had problems using them, and they were great fun, especially the Haruspex.

Putty
23-08-2009, 02:22
*goes and check if he has 9 carnifexes....*

txamil
23-08-2009, 08:08
Still going to be a boring army to paint.

silverstu
23-08-2009, 09:02
Gulity

That was me, sorry guys. 1,5 years ago I heard a statement considering possibly new Tyranid Warriors, but I confused that part. Unfortunately with the new rumours floating around I absolutely HAD to get to know this, so I asked questions wherever I could.
NO! The Tyranid Warrior rumour has absolutely no base! It was just a persistent question by me. Sorry guys.




I think the policy of keeping secrets won't last very long, after all these people love to talk about their job don't they? And frankly we know almost nothing.

Well you never know- I think it's quite likely they do something with the warriors- come to think of it wings could be a possible addition -and didn't they refresh the ork boyz sprue by adding extra definition to the existing sculpts?

I'm hoping we'll maybe hear[and maybe see?] a bit more and Games Day UK. Maybe since they have the unofficial leaks pretty much curbed they'll start more official leaks.. interesting that Moloch appears to be getting in on the action too..

@Txamil- they are only as boring as you make 'em;)

Bregalad
23-08-2009, 10:49
I want them to make plastic kits of all the old cephalopod creatures that used to be made by Armorcast. They were unofficial but came with datafaxes.
It's Gastropods ("Stomach-feet" -> Snails, slugs), not Cephalopods ("Head-feet" -> Squids, Octopusses) ;)
And they were official GW Epic models and IIRC the 40k rules were also official.


Still going to be a boring army to paint.
... but fun and impressive when it's done ;) (see attached pic)
My next army will be Skaven :)

itcamefromthedeep
23-08-2009, 15:34
Actually it has been talked to death in 2005 after the release of the Nid codex. Carnifice broods were one of the ideas being tossed around but rejected because they were considered to be too powerful. Fun fact. The idea of LRBT Squadrons though was mentioned years ago too.
And here I thought it was me, in this post:

With the arguable success of Leman Russ squadrons, we may be in for broods of 1-3 Carnifexes. That would replace Shock Troops. It would, of course, have to be handled with extreme caution, but I think it could work (DANGER Will Robinson, DANGER). If there were a cringe emoticon, I would use it there.
Then I hear that someone brought it up a month ago. Then this. Live and learn.

As far as I can tell the Carnifex brood thing is pure speculation at this point. I have never heard anything like that from a GW employee, second, third, or fourth hand. I suppose it's a rumor now, 'cause people are talking about it, but to my knowledge it has no pedigree at all.

Elite Genestealers are in the same boat.

Deus Mechanicus
23-08-2009, 15:46
Im not sure where the elite genestealers rumour came from... It is a little offsetting from starting nids though...

Monachus
23-08-2009, 16:05
Im not sure where the elite genestealers rumour came from... It is a little offsetting from starting nids though...

wasn't it part of that april fools joke originally?

itcamefromthedeep
23-08-2009, 16:09
Im not sure where the elite genestealers rumour came from... It is a little offsetting from starting nids though...
That may have been me as well. As I said, no pedigree on that one.

Why is it offsetting? Worried about the loss of 'Stealer Shock armies?

With the near-certain removal of the 0-1 restriction on Broodlords, you'll still be able to fit about 60 Genestealers in an army (assuming of course that the brood size doesn't increase).

As for their effectiveness, that will of course depend on a host of factors, such as what happens to their stat line, their options, Elite 'Fexes and most importantly, their price.

Tyranids may have trouble getting Gaunts to objectives across the board at the moment, but effective Hormagaunts would likely change that, as would Gargoyles in Troops.

Deus Mechanicus
23-08-2009, 16:28
No thats not it at all, i simply believe that the gaunt models are... lacking in some aspects :) and since i always build my armies on aesthetics foremost the idea of running gaunts as the majority and only scoring is not appealing to me :) so thats why the loss of troop stealer(unless we get new gaunts or a new nice looking troop) is unsettling to me

itcamefromthedeep
23-08-2009, 16:35
No thats not it at all, i simply believe that the gaunt models are... lacking in some aspects :) and since i always build my armies on aesthetics foremost the idea of running gaunts as the majority and only scoring is not appealing to me :) so thats why the loss of troop stealer(unless we get new gaunts or a new nice looking troop) is unsettling to me
The best reason to get an army is because of the look, so I can respect your concern. Here's hoping for Gaunt resculpts and separate Termagant/Hormagaunt boxes to go along with plastic Gargoyles.

Souleater
23-08-2009, 20:31
The other problem with Gaunts as our only Scoring Troops is that they need to pass a Ld5 test in order to do so.

Increasing the cost of Stealers with flanking would be a better fix. I would hope the trade off is stealers with better killing power, though.

Perfect Organism
23-08-2009, 22:08
Stealers with better survivability might go down better. Or any troops choice with decent survivability come to that. Maybe give stealer the stealth special rule instead of letting them scout and give hormogants scout instead to make them something other than crap stealers.

I expect to see the gaunts repackaged into seperate boxes if not re-cut.

I seriously doubt that they will reduce the number of carnifexes available. They want to sell more carnifexes, not fewer. If there is a plastic tyrant, I would expect that the tyrant gives you the ability to take carnifexes as elites (or maybe as troops), if not then either they will keep the current system or allow you to take carnifexes in squads. If there is a plastic tyrant, I expect warriors to get kicked out of the HQ options and the tyrant to replace the carnifex in the battleforce.

Throwing the malanthrope into the main codex seems like an easy option even if they don't make a new model.

I think the trygon will be in the main codex, simply because that will help it sell more. If I was designing it, I'd put a 60mm crater on the sprue and say that when it deep strikes, you place the crater under it. The crater remains in play and various reserve forces can deploy straight out of the crater.

Winged warriors seems like an option for a new box. Possibly call them something else and say that they are a new species to seperate them from the other warriors, but similar enough that exisitng winged warriors can be used to represent them.

Max Jet
23-08-2009, 23:12
I expect to see the gaunts repackaged into seperate boxes if not re-cut.

This is something I have asked myself... Either they take the current box and split it, but then they would either have 8 (too few) in a box or 12 (too many) and additionaly they would have two seperate boxes.. I doubt it therefore.


I seriously doubt that they will reduce the number of carnifexes available. They want to sell more carnifexes, not fewer. They will want to sell more Trigons! XD


I think the trygon will be in the main codex, simply because that will help it sell more. If I was designing it, I'd put a 60mm crater on the sprue and say that when it deep strikes, you place the crater under it. The crater remains in play and various reserve forces can deploy straight out of the crater.

Hm.. that would explain the high point costs, despite the fact, that a Carnifex can be more resistant for half the points.


Winged warriors seems like an option for a new box. Possibly call them something else and say that they are a new species to seperate them from the other warriors, but similar enough that exisitng winged warriors can be used to represent them.

This is the point where I'd wish that the Warrior kit rumour actually DID have a base.

Egaeus
23-08-2009, 23:45
This is something I have asked myself... Either they take the current box and split it, but then they would either have 8 (too few) in a box or 12 (too many) and additionaly they would have two seperate boxes.. I doubt it therefore.

I don't get this...the current box gives you 8 of each, which is currently minimum squad size...the only major issue that I would see is that currently all the upgrades (Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs mainly) are on the "upgrade sprue" for the Gaunts...these I would expect to go with the "Termagants" since the sprues are primarily the other shooting weapons. Of course if Gaunts lose the ability to modify stats in the new Codex those upgrades won't be required anymore. But as it is, you would either have to either buy Shooty Gaunts or the sprues individually to get these upgrades for Hormagaunts, or they would have to include an extra set of sprues in each box. Of course if GW could use this as an excuse to charge us significantly more per box then they might go that route anyway. OK, I know you're other option is to possibly trade/buy as bitz for those components but for some people that is not a simple option.

Max Jet
24-08-2009, 00:06
Well current boxes are 20€ per 10 miniatures (except space marines)
So ... 16 are 30€ then 8 are what.. 15€? I think rather 20€ but 20 for 8 miniatures would be so insane... I would never buy a box in my entire life again! So I just don't know what they are going to charge 18€ perhaps for 8? But one box will have all the additionaly bits.. the other one will not. Splitting the box to one gaunt sprue and one hormagaunt won't work also because of the ripper swarms in it. And I have heard nothing about a Gaunt recreation.. it's impossible to speculate on this matter..

Egaeus
24-08-2009, 04:39
Well current boxes are 20€ per 10 miniatures (except space marines)
So ... 16 are 30€ then 8 are what.. 15€? I think rather 20€ but 20 for 8 miniatures would be so insane... I would never buy a box in my entire life again! So I just don't know what they are going to charge 18€ perhaps for 8? But one box will have all the additionaly bits.. the other one will not. Splitting the box to one gaunt sprue and one hormagaunt won't work also because of the ripper swarms in it. And I have heard nothing about a Gaunt recreation.. it's impossible to speculate on this matter..

Ah, OK...I see what you're saying...I haven't actually bought anything in a long time (and quite a bit of it still isn't painted yet)...

For me it's $35US for the box of 16...so I could see it becoming $20 for a box of 8 but that does seem a bit ridiculous...of course if they packaged them with extra sprues per box so you would get a Ripper Swarm per box as well (that's 3 sprues of ranged weapons)* then it might not seem so bad except that seems an awful waste for the Hormagaunts (as it stands I have a huge pile of extra arm sprues from the ones I actually made into Termagants and Hormagaunts).

Now if GW were nice :evilgrin: they would make it 12 per box then I could see them charging that much...but then they would have to include 4 arm sprues per box (or as I mentioned, limit the extra sprues to the "Termagant" boxes) as oddly they designed them with only 3 sets of arms per sprue when the Gaunt sprues come in sets of 4 (I would hope this was more an issue of design then a purposeful choice on GWs part)...

Again they may do away with the Biomorphs altogether, then it wouldn't be as big an issue, except for people like me who put Adrenal Glands on all my Hormies and if I want to flesh out the whole units and still have them look uniform.

See, speculation isn't so hard, is it? :p

* [Edit] I know Rippers are "supposed" to be 5 to a base but I've seen many people use 3 as (1) This allows them to get more mileage out of the Rippers and (2) It corresponds nicely to the 3 wounds thay they have.

DarkstarSabre
24-08-2009, 06:25
This is how rumors start... before it goes any further, NO, it was not Phil Kelly that first said this. It was in fact a random member of Warseer about a month or two ago that suggested that they allow 1-3 Carnifexes per Heavy Support choice

I'm not exactly random but I sure as hell am guilty of this one.

This is an idea that I threw up in one of the (many) Tyranid threads and people have clung to it...

noobzilla
24-08-2009, 06:28
I don't think this is a January 2010 release... I'm pretty sure that GW is releasing something fantasy for the month of January. I've heard it from my regional sales manager who has a list all the way through January 2010. He said Wolves of course (believe it or not there are still people who don't know) and then January would be something fantasy.

Nuage
24-08-2009, 08:20
As November is Skaven, I doubt a January Fantasy release.

But then, I doubt a Tyranid January release, even if that would be a tremendous good news (for me) and a very bad news (for my wallet).

Nuage.

MajorWesJanson
24-08-2009, 10:58
On what would be the best case for new plastics from GW (Wishlist)

With the possibility of plastic gargoyles, you may see a redesign of the gaunts to make things more efficient: one Sprue with 4-6 bodies, legs, heads, a ripper or two, and some of the common biomorphs. Then 3 upgrade sprues, one with 4-6 sets of termagaunt arms and biomorphs, one with leaping/running legs and hormagaunt upgrades, and one with wings and gargoyle upgrades. If it is 6 bodies on a sprue and an equal number of parts on the upgrade sprue, you could have a box of 12 for the same basic price as ork boyz or nobz, with 2 bodies sprues and two upgrade sprues in each. 3 seperate boxes with 12 models in each, but only 4 different frames. Then bump the minimum brood size to 10-12.

Plastic tyrant kit, would include wings, a few weapons (and have interchangable weapons arms with the fex so they can leave some out of the tyrant box) and best case, a pair of tyrant guards. It would give you a lot of model, but still encourage other buys, such as a carnifex box for some of those weapon options, or several boxes for a larger retinue of tyrant guard. Priced somehere around the new Demolisher.

Trygon kit. fairly obvious on that one.

New species plastic kit. Probably anti-tank focused. Maybe a new form of biovore, with a lascannon type weapon. possibly a kit with options for traditional biovores as well?

These, plus some metals (like a new broodlord or special ravenor or something) could make up a good first wave, spread out over the release month with the codex and a new battleforce (I'd speculate on the carni being replaced with a plastic tyrant, the mixed gaunts with a set of 12 termagaunts and 6 gargoyles if my prediction on them is true, and the genestealers and warriors staying put.

A Wave 2 could include a couple of the new species, one in metal and one in plastic, and another current model shifted to plastic, like ravenors (as a small plastic kit with a trio, like tau stealth suits) and a few more metal singles.

silverstu
24-08-2009, 11:19
Hmm- while a think a combined gaunt kit offering all options is great I think it would be pricey- which is not what you want for gaunts. I was thinking that perhaps a new gargoyle kit might give some new biomorph options- maybe a flying ripper base[for fun in nothing else..]. I'd liked to see a refreshed warrior kit- even just in terms of a new biomorph frame with wings.
I'm hoping for a plastic tryant kit with lots of nice options[again wings]. I'd also love to see the trygon offering some variety of options.
I'd really, really love to see a new species kit- something large-ish in the fast attack section.
I think nids would really benefit some more larger kits[not necessarily as abig as the fex but not as small as warriors] and some new biomorphs for some existing sets.
It will be interesting to see how much the scope of the army is expanded- the inclusion of new species sounds very positive.

Vampiric16
24-08-2009, 12:19
What i'd like to see rules wise is something to rectify the contradiction that 5th ed lays on the way tyranids perform: fluff wise the nids throw their lesser troops at the enemy to make way for larger, more important bugs to make it across the board. Due to the way troops are now scoring units, nid players are sacrificing their big bugs to save the little uns who are guarding an objective.

ReveredChaplainDrake
24-08-2009, 14:05
I see Tyranids going the way of CSM 3.5. Namely, we'll get a lot less Biomorphs and stuff, but the stats will be incorporated into the Gaunts for free. Edition after edition, Tyranid players have exposed the ultimate Darwinian consequence: when everything but cake is inferior, everybody bakes cakes.

Carnifex squads just seem like a bad idea. A likely one, given the codex author, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Vehicle squads actually have a rules precedence, not to mention a glaring weakness to CC that balances them out. Elite Carnifexes were not a bad idea, but the execution was terrible. I'd rather see 6 Carnifexes, 3 of which have a 114-pt cap and (implicitly) a 3+ save max than a full nine all-heavy Carnifexes backed up by a whopping 2 Flyrants and 16 Gaunts. If you think Nidzilla is bad now...

Elite Genestealers (though I thought FA Scuttle Stealers made a good amount of sense; less Trygon temptations for me ;)) would not disappoint me. Less competition for Troops slots that could only really get better at this point. I've got 60 Hormagaunts ready to rock n' roll, on top of the 60 Spines and 40+ Terms. I think I'll be fine. Y'know... so long as Gaunts are actually going to be good next codex. Personally I'd rather they have a rule that makes them worth their 5-12 pts / model (*cough*withoutnumber*cough*) than making them stupidly cheap but still worthless at doing the very thing you buy them for: tying up fire lanes with CC.

My bids for the new plastic species are:
-Trygon (all but confirmed)
-Harridan (preceded by the Valkyrie, it's not that outlandish anymore)
-Malanthrope (contributes to the pile of non-MC HQs, not too overpowered)
-Meiotic Spore (sorely-needed Tyranid anti-tank)

I'm hoping they get better-quality Tyranid fluff in. The big problem with the current Tyranid fluff is when 99% of the race shows up in the year 997.M41, they get a whopping 3-year rampage into Ork space, where they slog around hopelessly for the remainder of the relevant time span, unable to escape or advance any further. (Damn you, Kryptman! :mad:) What we need is a new hive fleet. Or some other incident besides Iyanden that illustrates how the Tyranids are everybody's problem, not just an Imperium / Ork issue. (The only Tyranid fluff involving Tau ends with the Tyranids getting curb-stomped. :wtf:)

To the sore Dark Eldar and Necron players, I wouldn't worry too much about your eventual codecies. By the time they actually come out, the likes of Hellions and Pariahs will make Nob Bikers melt like Chaos Spawn. Tyranids as we know it are, I fear, going to get nerfwhacked something stupid. We've had it coming with one overpowered codex after another since the last Space Hulk release, and better us than you.

matthius
24-08-2009, 14:48
Would make sense, but i cant wait to see what the new model bigger then a fex might be!
would love to see som exocrines or dactylis

Bolter Bait
24-08-2009, 16:07
Elite Genestealers are fine in my book. Moving them out of Troops would allow the wishlisting of others for more powerful Stealers to be a reality and, since I never gave into the "OMG, only Stealers and MCs are worth fielding, gotta buy $300 worth of them!" that others have been for the past 3 years, I'm not completely screwed by the possible death of Stealershock and Nidzilla. Which is a lesson for the rest of you to collect a balanced force that relies on a synergy between all Nid units rather relying on 2 types to mathhammer your way across the board.

chaos0xomega
24-08-2009, 16:31
-Harridan (preceded by the Valkyrie, it's not that outlandish anymore)


Not to rain on your parade drake, but have you any idea how HUGE the Harridan model that FW produces is?

Also, if you ask me, the Elite Carnifexes should be limited to Screamer-Killers or variations of that only. They should be purely limited to CC. The codex says they are used as shock troops, shock troops are assault troops, and true that doesn't mean an absence of dakka, but given the current use of them.... they need to be brought back in line with the assault concept.

ReveredChaplainDrake
24-08-2009, 17:50
Not to rain on your parade drake, but have you any idea how HUGE the Harridan model that FW produces is?
Yeah, but I also know that the Valkyrie is so big that they could sell it convincingly at Toys R' Us. Granted they might have to make it a bit smaller, but that's a given.


Also, if you ask me, the Elite Carnifexes should be limited to Screamer-Killers or variations of that only. They should be purely limited to CC. The codex says they are used as shock troops, shock troops are assault troops, and true that doesn't mean an absence of dakka, but given the current use of them.... they need to be brought back in line with the assault concept.
I don't think the concept of shooty elite Carnifexes should go away entirely, but I do agree that elite Carnies should have an inherent CC bias, rather than a shooty bias like the current Heavy Carnifex. I was thinking something like losing the 114-cap and certain bioweapon and biomorph options (no 5th wound, no 2+ save, no Barbed Strangler, stuff like that) but gaining Fleet and base WS4/I2. Something like that is a lot easier to balance than a unit of Carnifexes.

Plus, units of Carnifexes opens itself to wound-allocation abuse. Wound Allocation shenanigans, Feel No Pain (the likely effect of Regenerate), up to 5 wounds, and a potential 2+ save is a recipe for cheese.

PhalanxLord
24-08-2009, 18:05
Not to rain on your parade drake, but have you any idea how HUGE the Harridan model that FW produces is?

Also, if you ask me, the Elite Carnifexes should be limited to Screamer-Killers or variations of that only. They should be purely limited to CC. The codex says they are used as shock troops, shock troops are assault troops, and true that doesn't mean an absence of dakka, but given the current use of them.... they need to be brought back in line with the assault concept.

Shock troops aren't exactly assault troops-> they can also be close range firepower, in which case Dakkafexes fit the definition quite well. The only fex that's really used now that doesn't fit what a shock trooper is is the boomfex (ST+BS).

But yeah, the Harridan is massive. There's a good reason why its a gargantuan creature.



Plus, units of Carnifexes opens itself to wound-allocation abuse. Wound Allocation shenanigans, Feel No Pain (the likely effect of Regenerate), up to 5 wounds, and a potential 2+ save is a recipe for cheese.

I dunno about that. You can only target one enemy per brood, the fact that using current points you're looking at 90pts of defensive upgrades (so around 200+pts per fex at the very least) and if its a shooty fex you can still get it locked into combat for several turns with a unit of 10 d00ds or kill it with minimal losses with 5 TH/SS termies. Plus there's the whole point about how its kinda hard to abuse WA with some setups. You want CC? We only have 2 different CC weapons that are worth taking so at best you can have 2 different setups in the unit unless you want to waste points. With anti-tank we have 1 valid setup so you can't really abuse it there without wasting points. With anti-infantry we could probably do 2x devs+ dev and BS+ Dev and DS but then you're still missing out on some effectiveness because you're worse against small units due to only having 4 devs and fex DS aren't that great in the first place. Don't forget that with nids all models in a brood must have the same biomorphs.

So now lets look at this hypothetical unit using current points: 3 fexes with 4x devs, 1 BS, and 1 DS, ES, EC, RC, BE, Regen: thats 549pts and I haven't even touched the weapons yet. IIRC it would be an additional 75pts for the weapons so now we have a 624pt unit that can still only shoot one enemy per turn. If you want 3 then thats now 1872pts. You need 80pts for min gaunts (1952pts) and there is no HQ unit worth 48pts. Note that this is also the cheapest weapon loadout you would buy. CCfexes have a lot more biomorphs so they're more expensive and weapons for sniperfexes are more expensive. You can't mix fexes either. If there's a sniperfex in the brood you want it shooting at tanks. If there's a CCfex you want to fleet, plus you're paying for upgrades that are good for one type and not the others.

If there are broods I think what we'll be seeing are ones that have the bare minimum biomorphs and weapons. Thats it. So for anti-infantry it would be ES and then the weapons, for CCfexes it would be tusks, +WS, TM, +I, and for sniperfexes just ES again. Keep them cheap. On the flip side this makes them quite killable. Don't assume everyone will waste all their points on making fexes more survivable when its not really needed and it lowers the firepower of the army. Either way, 3 sniperfexes: 444pts. 3 devilfexes: 339pts (354 if you want to abuse WA), 3 CCfexes: 374pts (1 crusher fex). All at T6, 3+ save, 4 wounds. You want 3 broods of 3 and it'll be over 1k pts.

Max Jet
24-08-2009, 23:13
I have no proof, but I have heard that the 1-3 Carnifices Brood part has been a hoax and I fell for it.

About the Biovore. Now there are some quite nice freetime concept arts floating around, but all of them share the same flaws like the current Biovore.
A stupid head and a big cannon on the back. You can see it on Marco Schulzes site and on this one here (one of the concept artists for the ogre kingdoms).

I seriously hope for once GW will turn away from the stupid head and cannon glued on the back concept... Lets hope for the best.
Still a nice unofficial concept art! (But i insist.. more details doesn't necessarily mean more impressive model kit)

http://www.concept-artist.net/photos/Gallery%202/Tyranid.jpg

silverstu
24-08-2009, 23:22
I was just looking at some of Hydra's stuff on warpshadow- and my God that man is talented, but it did give me a fair few ideas for possibilities- there was this super lean fex type creature but it looked alot faster and not as heavy, perhaps his take on a taloned horror. Love to see that- plus he did a harridan type beastie based on a fex body that looked awesome as well- so perhaps a harridan is too big but a smaller version might be possible?

Gray Hunter
25-08-2009, 00:50
This is just a thought so feel free to shoot me down on this.

I think that one of the 4 new species might be a Mycetic (not Meiotic) Spore. Here's my logic:

1.) Everything the Tyranids use (from starships downwards) is just another species of Tyranid. Thus, Mycetic Spores are another species of Tyranid.
2.) No actual model of a Mycetic Spore has been released to my knowledge.
3.) Here is where I get a bit fuzzy as I don't have the latest Tyranid Codex - correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Tyranids have the option to deploy by Mycetic Spore in the same way as Space Marines from Drop Pods, but without the need for actual models (i.e. they just Deep Strike and you don't need a model in the same way as Space Marines before the new codex and that snazzy new plastic Drop Pod was released)? I vaguely remember this from the last time I encountered 'nids (which admittedly was in 3rd edition).
4.) The Mycetic Spore could appear as a codex entry as a dedicated transport, just like the Drop Pod in the Marine codex.
5.) The Tyranids badly need help in the anti-tank department, and Phil says he is trying to rectify this. I feel it is more likely that Phil will give the 'nids a close combat-based mechanism for dealing with armour rather than just a new anti-tank biogun (which would just make the 'nids more homogeneous with the other races when they're supposed to be the most alien). How can you resolve these issues? A Carnifex in a drop pod (Mycetic Spore) dropping into the middle of the enemy's armour a la the Drop Pod Dreadnought with Multimelta, that's how.

Taken together, this could mean that Mycetic Spores could fulfill Phil Kelley's description of the four new Tyranid species.

Just an idea, but it makes sense to me not least because the SM Drop Pod sold really well (I certainly didn't think it would sell as well as it did), and let's face it, most 'nid players will do whatever they can to get in amongst the enemy as quickly as possible whilst taking the minimum of shooting casualties.

Thoughts?

Max Jet
25-08-2009, 01:05
I hope not! Well one of our fellow Warseer members claiming to have seen the Codex was talking about swarm armies getting Imbalicious, still I cannot believe, that they would resurrect the Mycetic spore list.
I have seen it in edition 3 and it was... well.. If you think Nidzilla was overpowered in edition 4.. think again.

The second thing is. Drop pods have been asked for throughout years, while most Tyranid players don't really know what to think of a simplified Mycetic spore model. First they would have to make the Codex, test its Popularity and THEN make a model out of it, don't they?
Though the option might be included... my god... IF 3rd edition mycetic spores show up again the cry of imbalance and cheese will drag warseer into the seventh circle of hell.

Gray Hunter
25-08-2009, 01:15
Max Jet,

I see what you're saying, but I don't think they need to test a concept for popularity before they put it in a Codex. If that were true then every new unit would have to be in an army book but not get a model, GW would then wait to see how many people bothered converting it, then if it was a popular choice they would finally make a model for the next edition of the codex.

Other than that, I agree, it would be terrifying. But then, isn't that the point of the Tyranids? Plus if it was pointed accordingly, the 'nid player would have to make a choice. I am pretty sure that 'Gaunts will be a phenomenal Troops choice this time around in order to make them viable choices again. This I feel is right and proper, and would force the 'nid player to choose between unleashing an expensive-but-devastating Carnifex or whatever in the midst of the enemy battle line (on an unpredictable game turn, I might add - what if it doesn't show up until turn 5?) or taking buckets and buckets of cheap and effective 'Gaunts running across the table. Honestly, I'm not sure which I'd go for, or be more scared of.

Max Jet
25-08-2009, 01:25
You are right... hm... perhaps.. but it is hard to imagine. Nore did I heard a word from anyone, surely the guy must have noticed this... I mean. Mycetic spores are somehow a big thing. I would buy them ^^ for 25€ that is? Same size?

But lets come back to the Mycetic spores. It was possible to buy WoN on a brood, thus enabling it to drop down each turn (though that made them a heavy support) They could charge out of the spore.. Landing onto the enemy meant instant involved in close combat. They were able to buy +1s and +1 Initiative (though they suffered D3 or D6 wounds a turn after landing) You were able to buy a save landing for every single unit in the Codex and it didn't cost that much.
Charging out of a drop pod, possibly not getting shot at.... Genestealers... that was hard.

Vepr
25-08-2009, 01:35
You are right... hm... perhaps.. but it is hard to imagine. Nore did I heard a word from anyone, surely the guy must have noticed this... I mean. Mycetic spores are somehow a big thing. I would buy them ^^ for 25€ that is? Same size?

But lets come back to the Mycetic spores. It was possible to buy WoN on a brood, thus enabling it to drop down each turn (though that made them a heavy support) They could charge out of the spore.. Landing onto the enemy meant instant involved in close combat. They were able to buy +1s and +1 Initiative (though they suffered D3 or D6 wounds a turn after landing) You were able to buy a save landing for every single unit in the Codex and it didn't cost that much.
Charging out of a drop pod, possibly not getting shot at.... Genestealers... that was hard.

No no that was.... fair and... balanced. Yes completely fair. ;) The cover save congo line of death was good also. :D :p Rippers, Gaunts, Stealers, Warriors, MCs.... ;)

Gray Hunter
25-08-2009, 01:41
Yeah, it would need to be points costed accordingly or it would be a total nightmare to play against. There would have to be more of a down side.

What gives me some hope is that young Cruddace is supposedly writing this one. Think of the internet furore that he created when word of the three-Leman-Russes-in-a-squadron-and-yes-you-can-take-three-squadrons thing was leaked. People freaked out that such an abomination of an army list would be totally unbeatable and would fundamentally break the game. Well, it isn't and it hasn't. People are smart and came up with solutions. There is a built-in flaw in vehicle squadrons that makes even the might Leman Russ vulnerable. There's a trade off.

I imagine there would be a similar trade off with the Drop Pod Carnifex Army of Doom list. It might be scary, but it would only work once against an intelligent opponent, and then the 'nid player has invested a lot of time and money into a one trick pony army.

Also, I just had another thought. Phil said that one species would "dwarf a Carnifex", leading to the speculation that the plastic Trygon will soon be haunting the nightmares of non-Tyranid players everywhere. However, if a 'Fex is supposed to fit into a Mycetic Spore, then said Spore would have to be bigger than a 'Fex too, right?

Again, just a thought.

Gray Hunter
25-08-2009, 01:42
No no that was.... fair and... balanced. Yes completely fair. ;)

Yeah, you just gave me flashbacks to a similar stratagem unleashed against my Orks by my long-term Grey Knights "friend". That was hard too.

*shudders*

Captain Micha
25-08-2009, 02:07
Gray Hunter: Trygons wouldn't give me night mares.... I like the serpentine bugs too much :evilgrin: If anything it'd be haunting my wallet's dreams as it soon realizes that I'll be expanding my modest bug collection almost as soon as the Trygon was released.

Vepr
25-08-2009, 02:14
Maybe Phil was hinting at a barbed or scythed hierodule. :D Oh the joy.... I will see your land raider and raise you a barbed hierodule. In my best Tony Montana voice Say hello to my little friend!!!

Marrak
25-08-2009, 09:48
I have no proof, but I have heard that the 1-3 Carnifices Brood part has been a hoax and I fell for it.

About the Biovore. Now there are some quite nice freetime concept arts floating around, but all of them share the same flaws like the current Biovore.
A stupid head and a big cannon on the back. You can see it on Marco Schulzes site and on this one here (one of the concept artists for the ogre kingdoms).

I seriously hope for once GW will turn away from the stupid head and cannon glued on the back concept... Lets hope for the best.
Still a nice unofficial concept art! (But i insist.. more details doesn't necessarily mean more impressive model kit)

http://www.concept-artist.net/photos/Gallery%202/Tyranid.jpg

I really gotta wonder, just what would you have the biovore look like? :eyebrows: I mean not to be rude, but that's all it really is; the fact that it didn't get the living artillery rule (when it's fluff makes it precisely that) is astounding to me.

Most Tyranids have been streamlined, but have stayed true to their base image and outline, so I have a hard time seeing the biovore as anything but a tyranid with a giant gun growing out of its back.

zedeyejoe
25-08-2009, 09:53
With Rending nerfed, perhaps nids will get a combat upgrade?

Clang
25-08-2009, 10:29
To me the biovore is an ultra-specialised beasty which has lost all normal niddy combat ability to become living artillery, so I think it should have 6 spindly little limbs (just enough to drag it around) and either:
- a hugely modified mouth which vomits/spits nastiness at enemies
- a huge swollen abdomen which farts nastiness at enemies - yeah I know it sounds a bit scatalogical, but think of the plasma bugs in the movie Starship troopers
Things along both those lines exist in the real insect world.

Bolter Bait
25-08-2009, 14:47
You are right... hm... perhaps.. but it is hard to imagine. Nore did I heard a word from anyone, surely the guy must have noticed this... I mean. Mycetic spores are somehow a big thing. I would buy them ^^ for 25€ that is? Same size?

But lets come back to the Mycetic spores. It was possible to buy WoN on a brood, thus enabling it to drop down each turn (though that made them a heavy support) They could charge out of the spore.. Landing onto the enemy meant instant involved in close combat. They were able to buy +1s and +1 Initiative (though they suffered D3 or D6 wounds a turn after landing) You were able to buy a save landing for every single unit in the Codex and it didn't cost that much.
Charging out of a drop pod, possibly not getting shot at.... Genestealers... that was hard.IIRC, only broods that were upgraded to be Ferocious (thus taking up a FA slot) could assault after DSing or were allowed to land on an enemy and count as Assaulting, with the penalty of the models all having to make saves at the start of the turn to avoid dying. Nor could these broods be upgraded to be WoN. This was also when Genestealers had the save of Gaunts, so making them Ferocious was much more likely to kill them and lose expensive Stealers.

If I could find my 2004 CA (I know it's in here somewhere!), I could back this up with a page number.

Vepr
25-08-2009, 14:57
I just realized I will have to wait on an army builder update. Curse you army builder for spoiling me!!! :p

Codsticker
25-08-2009, 16:13
2.) Two things I would hate to see: Genestealers not standard anymore...

Oooh, that would make me mental as I just started collecting an all-Genestealer army. :(

PhalanxLord
25-08-2009, 16:15
I doubt they'd do it. At least in fluff terms stealers are very common troops. It would sorta throw the whole background thing out of wack, though GW has been known to just change the background when they feel like it (ex: Chaos Gods going from hating eachother to all being lovey-dovey).

Egaeus
25-08-2009, 20:45
To me the biovore is an ultra-specialised beasty which has lost all normal niddy combat ability to become living artillery, so I think it should have 6 spindly little limbs (just enough to drag it around) and either:
- a hugely modified mouth which vomits/spits nastiness at enemies
- a huge swollen abdomen which farts nastiness at enemies - yeah I know it sounds a bit scatalogical, but think of the plasma bugs in the movie Starship troopers
Things along both those lines exist in the real insect world.

The thing to me is that all the other 'Nid weapons are creatures in their own right, so the Biovore is really just a carrier for the "spore cannon", or rather it should be. As such it still is a very specialized creature...but they've sort of gone that way with the Zoanthrope as well (as the 2nd Ed version is just a "big brain" Warrior as opposed to the space sperm we have now).

Personally I still like and use my 2nd Ed Biovores.

I'm still curious to see what they're going to do with their rules to make them a usable unit. Also curious to see whether or not things like Lictors, Zoans and Biovores become unlimited rather than the 0-1 units we've seen in the last two editions. I always figured it was the "up to 3 per brood independent models" that made them feel like they needed to limit the number you could field, but especially in 4th where Biovores became a single unit there doesn't seem to be any reason why you shouldn't be able to field more than one unit of them.

Souleater
25-08-2009, 20:46
I don't like the idea of dropping stuff straight into assault. I just don't think it is fair, potential for death through stress or not.

I really hope GW learnt their lesson from 3rd Ed Mono Swarms and Nidzilla. Options are grand but those options need to offer a variety of viable, useful army styles.

ReveredChaplainDrake
25-08-2009, 20:56
Oooh, that would make me mental as I just started collecting an all-Genestealer army. :(
If they do make Genestealers into Elites, I would imagine that a Broodlord would either change them into Troops or Kantorize them into scoring Elites or wherever they wind up. I'm also strongly convinced (not by inside connections, but by "it makes sense to do this change", so don't quote me on it) that Scuttling Genestealers will be moved to Fast Attack in the next codex, so you could still field 6 units, not including the Broodlord + Retinue (assuming the BL still works that way).

mchmr6677
25-08-2009, 21:22
The following has been posted in the Tactica thread:


I haven't confirmed it myself, but I've been informed that the Tyranid codex and battleforce are officially out of print / production.

I repeat: this is unverified.

That would be good evidence of a new upcoming nids codex in a year or so.


+1 from me. The Battleforce is indeed unavailable from the GW US website, just like most of the space wolf kits.

Edit: An additional interesting note. After looking at all of the standard boxes and blisters, gargoyle set 1 is missing and gargoyle set 2 is listed as "This product is expected to despatch in three to four weeks." Curious.

DarkstarSabre
25-08-2009, 22:22
I have no proof, but I have heard that the 1-3 Carnifices Brood part has been a hoax and I fell for it.

You sir, like many have fallen for the 'taking a suggestion in a discussion thread to be gospel' that has snared many as of late. My god I'm regretting even suggesting it as an idea after seeing what it stirs up whenever mentioned.

It's not a true 'rumour'. It was a suggestion on one of the discussion threads as an idea. And to those screaming that broods of Monstrous Creatures = Cheese?

First - they'd likely all have to be identically armed. This makes them very unwieldy and inflexible. They'd have to maintain coherency. They'd be expensive. And would allocation would see them die.

Only able to attack a single target, more vulnerable to blasts and so on. Before people scream how broken MCs are....you can get squadrons of walkers in a number of armies now. When's the last time you saw an AV 11 or AV 12 vehicle shot to death by bolters?

Grand Master Raziel
25-08-2009, 23:47
2.) Two things I would hate to see: Genestealers not standard anymore (unfluffy, nerfing them and the whole army) and Carnifexes losing their Elite slot ability. Too many people would have to throw away 2-3 Carnifexes.

I'd be kind of surprised if Elite Fexes went away entirely, but I'd also be surprised if there isn't more of a downside to taking them as Elites than therer is now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Genestealers get moved to Elites, on the other hand, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. The idea of certain HQs allowing some FOC-bending is a firmly established precedent at this point, so what I'd expect is that instead of allowing one brood of Stealers to Infiltrate, a Broodlord will allow broods of Stealers to be taken as Troops. The only question there would be: will fielding a Broodlord allow one brood of Stealers to be taken as Troops (a la an Ork Warboss and Nobz) or all broods (a la Belial and DW-Terminators).


Fun fact. The idea of LRBT Squadrons though was mentioned years ago too.

Yeah, but the thing about vehicle squadrons is there was already an inherent downside - that whole Immobilized=Destroyed thing. The vehicle squadron rules were clearly written with light aircraft in mind (SM Land Speeders, Eldar Vypers), but they do confer a certain aspect of balance to any vehicle squadron. Cruddace took advantage of that. I don't think that's the only reason the 9-Russ army hasn't materialized, but it's a reason.


Im not sure where the elite genestealers rumour came from... It is a little offsetting from starting nids though...

Well, my guess would be it comes from folks stating they think Genestealers should be Elites, and went from there, the "should" part getting dropped out.


The other problem with Gaunts as our only Scoring Troops is that they need to pass a Ld5 test in order to do so.


Yeah, but you can have them Lurk once they get there, and even get a bonus to cover saves.


I don't think the concept of shooty elite Carnifexes should go away entirely, but I do agree that elite Carnies should have an inherent CC bias, rather than a shooty bias like the current Heavy Carnifex.

Well, the way they do unit entries now, the Fex entry could look something like this:

Carnifex: X points
Field as a Heavy Support choice: free
Field as an Elites choice: +30pts (or something in this vicinity)
All Carnifexes may take any of the following:
(certain upgrades)
Carnifexes taken as Heavy Support choices may also take the following:
(other upgrades)

My thinking is what you'd really want to do is make sure that Elite Fexes can't upgrade their durability any, so mods like Extended Carapace, Bonded Exoskeleton, Reinforced Chitin, and Regenerate would be in the Heavy Support only section. That plus paying a premium for fielding an Elite Fex would help with the toning down of Nidzilla without completely removing it as an option.



5.) The Tyranids badly need help in the anti-tank department, and Phil says he is trying to rectify this. I feel it is more likely that Phil will give the 'nids a close combat-based mechanism for dealing with armour rather than just a new anti-tank biogun (which would just make the 'nids more homogeneous with the other races when they're supposed to be the most alien). How can you resolve these issues? A Carnifex in a drop pod (Mycetic Spore) dropping into the middle of the enemy's armour a la the Drop Pod Dreadnought with Multimelta, that's how.

This is the part that makes me think the whole scenario is unlikely. Pod-Dreads can cause a lot of carnage, but they're also dropping in where they're vulnerable to things like meltaguns, and when you get down to it are not all that formidable in assault. You'll probably get one turn out of a podded Dread before something brings it down. Having Fexes be able to suddenly drop into the middle of opponent's armies would be a whole lot more powerful, because Fexes are harder to bring down, and because they're actually good in close combat.


What gives me some hope is that young Cruddace is supposedly writing this one. Think of the internet furore that he created when word of the three-Leman-Russes-in-a-squadron-and-yes-you-can-take-three-squadrons thing was leaked. People freaked out that such an abomination of an army list would be totally unbeatable and would fundamentally break the game. Well, it isn't and it hasn't. People are smart and came up with solutions. There is a built-in flaw in vehicle squadrons that makes even the might Leman Russ vulnerable. There's a trade off.

Well, there's that, but just as important, I think, is that the rest of Codex: Imperial Guard is just as good. People aren't going crazy with Russ squadrons because they also want to mess with infantry and the Orders system, because they want to have some Hellhounds, because they want to use Veterans in Chimeras, because they want to use Stormtroopers in Valkyries, and so on. Basically, after a long drought, IG players now have an embarrasment of riches, and want to use them all. So, they haven't been in a hurry to field an army of only tanks.


I doubt they'd do it. At least in fluff terms stealers are very common troops. It would sorta throw the whole background thing out of wack, though GW has been known to just change the background when they feel like it (ex: Chaos Gods going from hating eachother to all being lovey-dovey).

I think there's a bit of a difference between being lovey-dovey and being willing to use the other god's followers as disposable cannon fodder. GW just made the Chaos gods a little smarter, is all.

Captain Micha
26-08-2009, 00:27
I tried the only tanks list last night.

Yah... it wasn't very successful. It pretty much went as I thought it would. The amount of ability out there (even Tau can manage this) to shake, stun or far worse a Russ squadron is just horrendous. It's great for the first turn... and then it falls apart. Hard.

The problem of course is that it's too heavy on one tactic and strategy and isn't nearly versatile enough like my Hybrid lists are.

MC broods on the other hand.

Squads are always > individual units. It's why ICs are always stuck in a squad.

MCs, are not squad capable for a reason.

Vehicles on the other hand in the default rules, do have that capability.

Bregalad
26-08-2009, 01:11
I am almost 100% sure that Nids are the next W40k release after SW, IIRC around Feb of next year.
... and 75hastings69 is almost 100% correct concerning rumours ;)

chaos0xomega
26-08-2009, 01:42
So what about warriors... you think winged is going to keep em in FA or are they going to make them elites regardless of biomorph?

HsojVvad
26-08-2009, 04:54
Yeah, but you can have them Lurk once they get there, and even get a bonus to cover saves.


If I am not mistaken, can't find my codex, that if the Gaunts are Lurking, they don't count as scoring units then.

*edit* Ok just checked codex, it says something about Lurking Tyranids may not hold objectives or table quarters. I am assuming a scoring unit would be holding an objective and therefore not a scoring unit. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Grand Master Raziel
26-08-2009, 05:29
If I am not mistaken, can't find my codex, that if the Gaunts are Lurking, they don't count as scoring units then.

*edit* Ok just checked codex, it says something about Lurking Tyranids may not hold objectives or table quarters. I am assuming a scoring unit would be holding an objective and therefore not a scoring unit. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Oops. That last line in the description (the one I missed) was apparently the important one.

hellhammer6
26-08-2009, 05:30
Lurking units cannot hold objectives ... they cannot score.

BUT when units enter the board... they don't take instinctive behavior until the next turn... soooo... WON gaunts can be very useful for scoring when they come on the board on turn 5 or 6 - even without a synapse creature.

Souleater
26-08-2009, 08:34
Yup, it is a good reason for putting a home objective within 9" of one's board edge.

I agree with Raziel that dropping Fexes into a back line is a different prospect to Dreads. Plus Winged HTs would find such things a force multiplier.

I still think that it should be Synapse creatures and not Troops that claim objectives but I doubt that will happen.

Winged Warriors I'd like to see stay in FA - that would let people build Warrior armies. OMG, can you imagine more than one viable Nid army theme :D

I hope we don't have to wait until March for this. GW need to speed up to 3 or 4 Dexes a year.

Vhalyar
27-08-2009, 02:07
Oh oh, glad I decided to cave in to my temptation and buy a new battleforce from Maelstrom last week. I wonder what they could possibly change though, the Tyranid BF is one of the best.

Bolter Bait
27-08-2009, 02:46
Oh oh, glad I decided to cave in to my temptation and buy a new battleforce from Maelstrom last week. I wonder what they could possibly change though, the Tyranid BF is one of the best.They can change it to make it so it's not a good investment anymore.

Putty
27-08-2009, 03:02
Don't think we are going to get any solid rumors about this codex till after SW gets released...

itcamefromthedeep
27-08-2009, 03:03
We already have a few. The Trygon, for instance.

Putty
27-08-2009, 03:22
Sorry, could have made my post clearer.

I meant new army rules / FoC related stuff.

Bregalad
27-08-2009, 08:35
Returning characters and more anti-tank officially confirmed is all we got ATM.

BTW, while German and UK GW list all Tyranid plastic boxes as available, one local store said he can't order Tyranid plastic boxes anymore. Sounds strange, but what is your experience?

Egaeus
27-08-2009, 08:37
They can change it to make it so it's not a good investment anymore.

True they could at that, but it's also likely to just...change.

The 3rd Edtion(?) Battleforce I have consisted of two boxes of Gaunts, one box of 'Stealers and a box of Warriors. Even at the time it was still a good deal.

I would suggest the possibility (which I must stress is purely hypothetical) that if they did finally decide to give us the much-requested plastic Gargoyles then we could see them in a new battleforce...it seems somewhat common for GW to toss in a Fast Attack choice into the boxes as probably people wouldn't buy them otherwise :p. Although if they did come out with plastic Raveners that would also be another good choice to put in there.

Vhalyar
27-08-2009, 10:47
True they could at that, but it's also likely to just...change.

The 3rd Edtion(?) Battleforce I have consisted of two boxes of Gaunts, one box of 'Stealers and a box of Warriors. Even at the time it was still a good deal.

I would suggest the possibility (which I must stress is purely hypothetical) that if they did finally decide to give us the much-requested plastic Gargoyles then we could see them in a new battleforce...it seems somewhat common for GW to toss in a Fast Attack choice into the boxes as probably people wouldn't buy them otherwise :p. Although if they did come out with plastic Raveners that would also be another good choice to put in there.

Actually, would GW really introduce plastic gargoyles before the Tyranid update is even announced? Same goes for a modified battleforce box. it seems a little out of the blue, especially since Space Wolves are not even released yet.

Unless there's a precedent for this that I'm not aware of.

Faidlar
27-08-2009, 13:15
Well after seeing the news here yesterday about the BF being pulled I ran down to my FLGS to see if I could snag one. The owner told me that were no longer available to order.

He had been trying to get a nid codex for someone for 3 weeks and it hasn't been available. His contact at GW told him that they "wouldn't be available for a while and not to try to order a BF either because they were unavailable also. Make of the what you will."

So for what it's worth, this is my vote of confirmation that they're being pulled.

DangerousBrian
27-08-2009, 13:41
Space Hulk release

............... Currently only sold in the limited edition Space Hulk, but who knows if the sprues will be sold separately one day, e.g. mail order only. And yes, they are 40k scale and same hard plastic, just dyed dark blue.

.


I have personally been told "nothing in the SH box will ever be available seperately" by a regional sales manager

take it as you will

.

Vepr
27-08-2009, 16:08
I wonder if we will get a Catachan devil finally. Happy dance if that came true. :D

HsojVvad
27-08-2009, 19:12
This makes no sence to me at all. For people who get into SH, and like the genestealers might want to try Tyranids for a 40K game. But how can they if they can't get Tyranids? I don't think they will wait till January to start it.

Makes no sence to me at all. Why get new blood into the hobby if they can't continue with it?

Bregalad
27-08-2009, 20:05
Why keep it secret until preorder day?
Why advise everyone to order on that one lucky day?
Why not making a promotion campaign and ads?
Why not promoting it on Games Day Germany just one day before preorder date?
Why not distributing it in normal toy stores?
Why making presumably expensive plastic moulds for a one shot item?
Why pulling most Tyranid stuff from stores before release?

Yes, they could easily multiply sales on SH. Yes, they could easily bring loads of new customers into the hobby. Yes, they could easily increase profit. But for some unknown reason, they systematically prevent this from happening. Don't ask me why.

Vepr
27-08-2009, 20:16
GW has some odd business practices to put it mildly. Who knows maybe they are going to recreate the entire nid line again.

HsojVvad
27-08-2009, 22:03
GW has some odd business practices to put it mildly. Who knows maybe they are going to recreate the entire nid line again.

Yeah but why? I can understand for me, or other people who want 'Nids, they can wait since we are already in the hobby. But for others, who get SH in September, play a bit, most likely will not wait till January or February to get the new 'Nid codex.

They have some wierd practices that is for shure. I checked to see how their practices are doing. I was shocked to see GW shares at around $5.00 a share??? :wtf::wtf::wtf: I thought they were over $200 a share last year. Did I make a mistake or did GW shares really go down? Guess their odd business practices are not that good after all. No wunder their shares are Way way way down now.

Max Jet
27-08-2009, 22:30
My god.. I missed most of this thread... I am going to answer to all the posts afterwards! But first one this here.


Why keep it secret until preorder day?
To gather attention! Even the fantasy players might get interested, go to all their friends saying "OMG!!! LOOK NOBODY KNOWS WHAT IT IS!" The mouth to mouth propagand GW relies on is thrice as intense as with a normal product.
A:"The Baneblade is comming out!!!" B:"Meeeh.. Another Imperial thing."
A:"An unknown giant kit!!! NOBODY KNOWS IT!" "B huh? What might that be?? Hey C! Have you heard? A new giant kit!! Nobody knows it yet! What do you expect it to be??" C:"Propably an Imperial kit.. but.. god knows? I gonna ask D.. HEY D!!!" D:"A new Kit?? HMMM INteresting.. does C know it allready?? Well... ask E on the Forums!"

Why advise everyone to order on that one lucky day?
Sell all of them as fast as you can.. propably save space place if you can. Every day a product is kept in store or in the back costs money! Pretend that the product ist ULTRA RARE and you never get a second one and suddenly all the stu... I mean... well costumers are interested into a product they normally wouldn't bother it.. HELL. Some here bought two so one of it stands in the corner.. gathering dust.. WHAT THE HELL??? This just happens if you pretend the product to be ultra rare.

Why not making a promotion campaign and ads?
Good question... because.. GW... is tooo coool for Ads? XD Seriously, I think they are stupid.

Why not promoting it on Games Day Germany just one day before preorder date?
Yes... Why. Because they.. are stupid?

Why not distributing it in normal toy stores?
As if Space hulk could compete priceweise with any other product out there. If you think it actualy CAN then you don't go outside of a fantasy store or the internet shops very much.

Why making presumably expensive plastic moulds for a one shot item?
Well they can't anger the st... the costumers who bought the product just because it is "so rare!"

Why pulling most Tyranid stuff from stores before release?
They are? My local shop can still order and sell anything OO I asked! Seriously!

Propably not my best post ^^"

Bregalad
28-08-2009, 01:24
Let's try to keep it a rumour thread (in exile ;)).

Gray Hunter
28-08-2009, 02:10
Yeah but why? I can understand for me, or other people who want 'Nids, they can wait since we are already in the hobby. But for others, who get SH in September, play a bit, most likely will not wait till January or February to get the new 'Nid codex.

They have some wierd practices that is for shure. I checked to see how their practices are doing. I was shocked to see GW shares at around $5.00 a share??? :wtf::wtf::wtf: I thought they were over $200 a share last year. Did I make a mistake or did GW shares really go down? Guess their odd business practices are not that good after all. No wunder their shares are Way way way down now.

Okay, I looked into it and Games Workshop is currently trading at about 275 pence per share, or about 5 USD/share as you say. But historically, the highest price that GAW has hit is about 875 pence/share. Even accounting for differences in the GBP/USD exchange rate, the price per share has never been close to $200 per share. The shares have actually been steadily rising since hitting a low of around 175 pence per share in January.

Here's a chart of the price action over the last year:

http://quote.fool.co.uk/chart.aspx?s=GAW

Off-topic, I know, but a direct question was asked so I thought I'd answer it.

Putty
28-08-2009, 03:27
Okay, I looked into it and Games Workshop is currently trading at about 275 pence per share, or about 5 USD/share as you say. But historically, the highest price that GAW has hit is about 875 pence/share. Even accounting for differences in the GBP/USD exchange rate, the price per share has never been close to $200 per share. The shares have actually been steadily rising since hitting a low of around 175 pence per share in January.

Here's a chart of the price action over the last year:

http://quote.fool.co.uk/chart.aspx?s=GAW

Off-topic, I know, but a direct question was asked so I thought I'd answer it.

I think he mixed it up with GM shares... :D

HsojVvad
28-08-2009, 04:41
I think he mixed it up with GM shares... :D

LOL naw, I just asumed it was American Dollars and not what ever the british currency is. (why can't the Americans and British convert with the rest of the world? They always have to have it thier way and not convert to metric or a common currency LOL)

But as the other posters has said, Max Jet I believe, you are lucky that you can order Tyranid stuff, most others can't.

From the recent history of GW, when ever they remove something from sale, 3 or so months later, they release a new version. Only exception I saw so far is the release of 5th edtion rules, 4th was still being sold 2 weeks before 5th came out, and Dark Eldar. But you can still buy DE online and at my GW store.

It happened with SM I believe, and IG, Eldar and Chaos, so I am assuming Tyranids will get a new one soon. I just can't believe a half year before release they are stopping it from being sold.

Souleater
28-08-2009, 07:41
One thing we might be getting is the oddly-mouthed beastie that keeps showing up in background art.

pg 54 of the SM Codex shows a small version of it. There is a much larger creature of possibly similar build in Codex Eldar iirc.

As to the problem of GW not capitalizing on SH sales....they will be selling Space Marines to the youngsters. :(

dblaz3r
28-08-2009, 09:22
LOL naw, I just asumed it was American Dollars and not what ever the british currency is.

Pounds, which are worth more than the US$.


It happened with SM I believe, and IG, Eldar and Chaos, so I am assuming Tyranids will get a new one soon. I just can't believe a half year before release they are stopping it from being sold.

They haven't sold the SW codex for over 2 years so 6 months to let stocks run out doesn't really seem like a shocker. Would you be happy if you bought a codex only to have it replaced within 3 months?

HsojVvad
28-08-2009, 19:19
They haven't sold the SW codex for over 2 years so 6 months to let stocks run out doesn't really seem like a shocker. Would you be happy if you bought a codex only to have it replaced within 3 months?

No I wouldn't be happy at all. What I am saying is though why release SH , and cancel Tyranid sales, they could at least keep selling the models, and heck give them the current codex for free for at least starting to buy the models, and keep them interested. Like say, here have the codex for free since we are releasing a new version soon, but please, at least enjoy it now while you can, and then please buy the new version. Nothing wrong with that.

I keep seeing SW being sold at my GW, so I guess that is just inventory they are trying to get rid of. I didn't know that, thanks for the heads up. Weird practices that GW does, I will never understand.

Then again 10 years ago when I saw a GW store at Square One shopping center, I swore it wouldn't last the year, and 10 years later it's still there. I am surprised, so I guess they are doing something right. I ment, the rental prices must be ridiculous to be there, and the store is still there, so they must be having high sales.

Imperius
28-08-2009, 21:48
Reports of Space Wolves being included in the Tyranid Codex?

Lets talk about how sick the Trygon will be in closecombat!

mchmr6677
28-08-2009, 21:57
I would actually expect that the inclusion of the trygon might be a big part of the "increase in nid heavy anti-tank".

Before you tar and feather me consider this, right now nids have a bad lack of anti-tank, especially vs. AV14 because the only really good things are either unreliable (zoies) or too slow (carnies in CC).

The trygon would be neither of these. Even considering that it will not be as fast as it is in Apoc, if it is a monstrous creature and a beast it will have a 24" threat range for assault, jusr like a hormaguant. That is more then enough speed to catch any current vehicle and with 6 attacks on the charge, it should get a hit even against cruising speed vehicles. That pretty much gurantees a penetrating hit, which is what we currently can't get. Any thoughts on this?

Nuage
28-08-2009, 22:09
A 24'' (or even 19'' / 24'') threat range for a monstruous creature which will be at least T6 / S8, with, what ? 5 ou 6 attacks on the charge, minimum...
Well, yeah, that would solve a part of the trouble Tyranids have with tanks - but I can't help feeling that it may pose some other balance issue.

I mean... Can you imagine that two or three of those beasts hitting enemy lines on the first, or at least on the second turn ?

I really have trouble seeing how a model like the Trigon can be balanced in a classic 1500pts game. Even at 250pts, even 0-1, a deep striking fast moving monstruous creature, stronger and thougher than a carnifex is going to cause some fuss !

Nuage.

mchmr6677
28-08-2009, 22:23
I really have trouble seeing how a model like the Trigon can be balanced in a classic 1500pts game. Even at 250pts, even 0-1, a deep striking fast moving monstruous creature, stronger and thougher than a carnifex is going to cause some fuss !

Nuage.

I really hope they drop the 'deepstrike only' deployment method on it however. If they leave that in, you will never see one used as it will be hitting the enemy lines at the same time the rest of the MCs are hitting it, turn 3, at best.

silashand
29-08-2009, 03:50
Awsome, they need updating for 5th. maybe plastic gargoles? We live in hope

No plastic gargoyles and/or tyrant are the one reason I haven't tried to pick the 'nids back up since I gave away my original army. If the new ones look cool enough, maybe I'd be tempted to start them up again (especially after seeing the new Space Hulk 'stealers). Then again, I said that about Orks and never did either due to money/time/etc. so who knows.

Egaeus
29-08-2009, 08:35
I would actually expect that the inclusion of the trygon might be a big part of the "increase in nid heavy anti-tank".

Before you tar and feather me consider this, right now nids have a bad lack of anti-tank, especially vs. AV14 because the only really good things are either unreliable (zoies) or too slow (carnies in CC).

The trygon would be neither of these. Even considering that it will not be as fast as it is in Apoc, if it is a monstrous creature and a beast it will have a 24" threat range for assault, jusr like a hormaguant. That is more then enough speed to catch any current vehicle and with 6 attacks on the charge, it should get a hit even against cruising speed vehicles. That pretty much gurantees a penetrating hit, which is what we currently can't get. Any thoughts on this?

But with a whole new codex both of these are easy fixes if GW wants them to be...

For Zoanthropes simply up the range and power of the Warp Blast. If it were essentially a Plasma Cannon/Lascannon with BS4 then it would solve a lot of problems. Priced properly it would make them a lot more enticing as well. Personally I would like to see the Zoan's Warp Shield be similar to a Storm Shield (a 3++ all around)...again pointing to fact that they are still "just" T4 with 2 wounds (although even if they were upped to T5 they still wouldn't be impossible to kill...just quite a bit tougher. Plus their points could be adjusted to fit. I think this would make them a very fitting Heavy Support choice.

For Carnies it's a similar fix...just drop the "only glances" from the Venom Cannon. I've also seen it suggested to make it AP- but I would almost prefer that it actually go the other way and be AP 2 or 3. I think a lot of the issue here is that when the Third Ed 'Nid Codex came out the thought of a fairly long-range S10 gun was pretty intimidating, but there have been a lot of changes to the game since then.

Another simple fix is to give the Carnifex Fleet. To me this doesn't mean that it "runs so fast", just that it can build up a good charge...remember that in this edition Fleet just lets you assault after running so it's really only a good addition for a CC 'Fex (although I have been saying for years that they ought to have Fleet).

I would much rather see these types of changes to make the current Heavy Support units actually work as Heavy Support then having to go out and buy a new unit just it's the new bad-a$$ thing in the Codex. Not saying I wouldn't want to go out and get one if it's a good unit, just not feel compelled to because "hey your other stuff still sucks but there's this new thing you can go out and buy"

silverstu
29-08-2009, 09:08
I think I'd still like to see something big/large in fast attack- something quick which hits hard and is a bit durable. Not necessarily as heavy as a fex or as big as trygon but another threat. I agree that improving existing units is important but so is adding extra options and new variety to the nids. It would be nice to have more to choose from than various fex breeds and tyrant builds.

Marrak
29-08-2009, 10:32
Judging by what they've done with the last few armies, I think we can see a lot of inspiration coming from 2nd ed.

That would lead to a much more dangerous Venom Cannon, as the thing was essentially a Thunderfire cannon.

Zoanthropes would become much more durable then their current incarnation; a 3++ save isn't something I'd ever considered but it's a nice idea. In the same vein, I'd also like the max range on Warp Blast increased if nothing else; doesn't make sense that what's supposed to be one of our chief tankbusters has to get closer to the enemy to do it.

Ratman
29-08-2009, 10:51
I would like to see the option to take biomorphs on Raveners. They are great models and would be fantastic now but you can´t get them any upgrades so they die very easily.

Ravenwing011
29-08-2009, 11:37
I would like to see the option to take biomorphs on Raveners. They are great models and would be fantastic now but you can´t get them any upgrades so they die very easily.

make their base cost cheaper as well if you're gonna give them biomorphs, even then without extra bio morphs make them slightly cheaper, like 20 points base instead of 30.

andyg2006
29-08-2009, 11:46
How about something like:
More than one winged Tyrant in an army (as a plastic model), Warriors with wings (+ wings coming as part of their basic sprues).
Fleeting 'Fexes would be really naughty (or only make it once per game, like a one-shot adrenaline-booster-type implant), but what about giving them the 'Furious Charge' or 'Rage' special rules instead?

hendybadger
29-08-2009, 15:35
I cant spot this anywhere (delete me if it is) but...

Is that a plastic Trygon in this months WD?

Bregalad
29-08-2009, 16:56
Yes, and you can see the very same model in post#1 of this thread. Was shown first in the Apocalypse book and finally identified as the plastic Trygon 5 months ago (see rumour roundup).

hendybadger
29-08-2009, 17:03
Apologies. Didint realise it was the same model. Looks very nice though. I will be adding some to my swarm

Marrak
30-08-2009, 10:28
I would like to see the option to take biomorphs on Raveners. They are great models and would be fantastic now but you can´t get them any upgrades so they die very easily.

Honestly I'm fine with a lack of biomorphs on Raveners; they're meant for one role, but I say buff their current stats and save to at least a 4+.

silverstu
30-08-2009, 11:30
Well IF they make a plastic rav kit I'd say there is a fair chance of some new biomorphs- plastic gives greater possibilities for options than metal. As long as they are more viable I'll be a happy bunny- I love ravs.

Mr.Rotty
30-08-2009, 13:10
I'd love to see better lictors, there models are so nice :(
And it was suggested before I think, but the HQ's giving changes to the FOC would be nice. Like "If you include a winged hive tyrant, gargoyles can be troops" or "if your army includs a Trygon, Raveners can be troops"
That would bring about some great looking armies,
I think psychic would be a nice alternative for anti-tank than bio-guns. Like some kind of unit that collaboratively can do a big psychic beam, and the more in the unit, the stronger the blast is.
I just think the answer to anti tank doesn't have to be bigger guns, since synapse and hive mind psyche are a big thing in the fluff :)

Bolter Bait
30-08-2009, 18:10
I would like to see the option to take biomorphs on Raveners. They are great models and would be fantastic now but you can´t get them any upgrades so they die very easily.Raveners are already highly specialized Warrior evolutions. In 3rd, they were a Genofixed species, making biomorphs and mutants unavailable for them, which is why they have very limited options now.

If anything, allowing Warriors to be biomorphed into the FA slot with a Serpentine movement biomorph would be a much better representation of the specialized evolution that leads to Raveners.

Tymell
30-08-2009, 18:26
4 new species eh? Very interesting indeed...

I like the idea, certainly. Nids are a race that is ever-changing and ever-evolving, so it makes sense that the army will expand with new toys as it gets redone.

HsojVvad
30-08-2009, 18:56
So is it 4 new species, never seen or just 4 new species that weren't in a Tyranid Codex?

Would IA beconsidered part of the Tyranid Codex?

Bregalad
30-08-2009, 19:19
4 new species that weren't in a Tyranid Codex, which includes the Trygon certainly. But I hope for completely new species as well, and I think GW will do that, judging from the "not just a new biovore model, but something really new" remark.

Tymell
30-08-2009, 20:05
Fleeting 'Fexes would be really naughty (or only make it once per game, like a one-shot adrenaline-booster-type implant), but what about giving them the 'Furious Charge' or 'Rage' special rules instead?

Personally I could see some kind of trade-off thing for extra speed. Like, sacrifice a wound and gain some kind of movement boost that turn, representing the Carnifex activating a super adrenaline booster, something that ultimately harms it's lifespan but gives it a brief surge of speed.

Imperius
01-09-2009, 02:49
Personally I could see some kind of trade-off thing for extra speed. Like, sacrifice a wound and gain some kind of movement boost that turn, representing the Carnifex activating a super adrenaline booster, something that ultimately harms it's lifespan but gives it a brief surge of speed.

Considering Tyranids exist to make themselves bigger, better and have instincts at all times to stay ALIVE near the Hive Mind....

I doubt that an adrenaline gland would go with the unwritten but obvious fluff of Tyranids.

Possibly make the Carnifex have a really costly 1shot boost after taking some sort of test to see if it works out? If it doesn't you can make an excuse that the Carnifex tripped, missed or was overly bloodhungry and completely failed.

kazkal
01-09-2009, 03:09
So how many more codex's are going be released before Necrons & Dark eldar get done? wouldn't be so bad if they put off any new marine codex's untill al the xeno's were finished.

HsojVvad
01-09-2009, 03:48
So how many more codex's are going be released before Necrons & Dark eldar get done? wouldn't be so bad if they put off any new marine codex's untill al the xeno's were finished.

Again, it comes down to what sells and makes money. With SW coming out soon, it looks like it will make lots of money for GW. I think it will make more money than Necrons and DE so that is why it is being released first.

I don't like it, and wish Necrons and DE get theirs first before anyone else, but GW is a company and we have to understand that.

As for rumours, how do we know if the summary in the first post is updated? Will the OP say in a post here that page one is updated? I just click on last post read, so I don't know if it's updated or not. Gets tiring reading the samething over and over again with no change.

Motley
01-09-2009, 04:05
....... the pics from white dwarf
in the Firts one you can see what i think is the new Tyrant guards and some kind of big carnifex convertion, in the second one the possible plastic trygon

HsojVvad
01-09-2009, 04:14
Those are 3rd edtion Tyranid Guards, and yes that is the new plastic Tygron. If you look at the lictors, I believe those are 3rd edtion as well.

Vepr
01-09-2009, 04:25
Is that a ravener coming out of the ground? I wonder if that is a conversion?

Vepr
01-09-2009, 04:28
I just noticed something else in the other picture also. I can't tell what the thing is in front of the Carnifex and Zoan by the wall and on the bastion it looks like a warrior but thicker in build?

HsojVvad
01-09-2009, 04:53
Is that a ravener coming out of the ground? I wonder if that is a conversion?

Yeah it's a convertion. I was going to do that, since I had trouble glueing the bottom to the top. Who ever did it, did a great job eh?


I just noticed something else in the other picture also. I can't tell what the thing is in front of the Carnifex and Zoan by the wall and on the bastion it looks like a warrior but thicker in build?

I can't make it out either, just a Warrior is my guess since they have to be within 2" of each other.

Remember they are using all their mini's, from 4th editon models, and 3rd edtion models as well. Not shure if they are using any 2nd edtion fexcies (what the hell is plural for Carnifex?)

Geep
01-09-2009, 05:04
That WD picture clearly shows the Trygon having a mace tail, although we've also seen it with a scythe tail in earlier pics. Hopefully this means it'll have the same mace and scythe options as the carnifex tail (the original IA rules gave the Trygon a Scythe tail, just like the carnifex one, but this was lost in IA:Apocalypse).
If it's still a Gargantuan creature (and doesn't just become a monstrous creature in the new 'Nid book) then these tail options are pretty much useless (as the Stomp attack is almost always better).
I take this as more evidence the Trygon is now a part of the basic 'Nid book.

Dust King
01-09-2009, 06:14
First off there was a thread on those tyrant guard, the consensus was they were conversions of 2nd edition tyrants.

The black and yellow 'nids are Phill Kellys from memory.

Also I think the thing in-front of the zonie and fex is actually another zonie and a warror overlapping in the photo, there's a flat section which looks like the front of a Zonithrope's head on the left and the right looks like a warrior, but I'm not 100% on that

Bregalad
01-09-2009, 09:23
....... the pics from white dwarf
in the Firts one you can see what i think is the new Tyrant guards and some kind of big carnifex convertion, in the second one the possible plastic trygon
1.) You can see a longer discussion of these pics in the "New Tyrant Guard Models and plastic thunderbolt (proven False) " thread ( http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217017 ).
2.) In that thread, the new Tyrant Guard is identified as a conversion of the 2nd edition Hive Tyrant (see pic).
3.) In that thread it is confirmed that we see another of Phil Kelly's plastic Trygons.
4.) The first of his plastic Trygons was shown in the Apocalypse book and identified as being the new plastic one 5 months ago (see rumour roundup "Plastic Trygon" thread http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189885 ).
5.) A pic of said Plastic Trygon by Phil Kelly is included in the rumour summary in post #1 of this thread.

Mr.Rotty
01-09-2009, 10:15
But you can see that nice mace tail on this pic :)
Is this new plastic trygon smaller than the FW one? It looks it to me but I'm unsure, Maybe thats their way of getting rid of gargantuan creature rule?

itcamefromthedeep
01-09-2009, 12:38
That Trygon looks to be mounted on a roughly 120mm round base. We don't have any of those yet. It might be appropriate to mount a Defiler on, if we can a hold of it.

Atherakhia
01-09-2009, 15:29
I'm guessing, the Trygon will be in the codex as a Heavy Support choice, but I reckon so will the Malanthrope (as a 0-1 HQ choice).

But we may also be seeing Catachan Devils, Brainleafs, Von Ryan's Leapers....
AND I'd like to see the return of Tyranid Vehicle Infestation rules.... (I know, that's wishful thinking.... **sigh**)

and maybe also Hypertropic Fauna? **shrugs**

OH, AND FOR THE LOVE OF ANYTHING HOLY/UNHOLY OR OTHERWISE, GIVE US PLASTIC GARGOYLES!!!!

GorillaSurfer
01-09-2009, 16:04
I have only three wishes for the new codex:

1. Give us anti-tank capability for something that is not a MC, preferably kick-ass close combat AT against AV14.

2. Make the army swarmy again with cheap cannon fodder, that actually has enough staying power to not melt away in close combat like a snowball in nuclear hell. Gaunts need to be expendable, not the stuff you protect with your MCs...

3. Make the army swarmy again with cheap cannon fodder, that actually has enough staying power to not melt away in close combat like a snowball in nuclear hell. Gaunts need to be expendable, not the stuff you protect with your MCs...

(Yeah, point 2 is that important to me.)

Atherakhia
01-09-2009, 16:33
1 word:
Exocrine....

Absolutionis
01-09-2009, 20:06
Check out the US GW online store.

Tyranid Gargoyles Set 1 is no longer even listed.
Tyranid Gargoyles Set 2 takes 1-2 weeks to deliver.
Tyranid Raveners take 3-4 Weeks to deliver.

Seems like they are phasing these two models out.

Trogdor
01-09-2009, 20:16
1 word:
Exocrine....

I see your Exocrine and raise you a Dactylis!

On a less frivolous note, both would be excellent, fluffy additions and would hopefully solve some of the "we need AT fire now as our MC's aren't effective enough tank killers " griping coming from certain quarters...of course, we'll just have to wait and see what the new codex brings.

Vepr
01-09-2009, 20:19
I want Barbed and Scythed Hierodules. :D

Motley
01-09-2009, 21:28
Thank you Bregalad!

gorgon
01-09-2009, 21:56
That Trygon looks to be mounted on a roughly 120mm round base. We don't have any of those yet.

Or is it the large oval base?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1430061&prodId=prod1570012

That's what I picked up for my Trygon...

gorgon
01-09-2009, 22:05
Check out the US GW online store.

Tyranid Gargoyles Set 1 is no longer even listed.
Tyranid Gargoyles Set 2 takes 1-2 weeks to deliver.
Tyranid Raveners take 3-4 Weeks to deliver.

Seems like they are phasing these two models out.

Hmm. If that actually indicates new Raveners and isn't just a coincidence, that makes me think we might get a) plastic Ravs, and b) a combined Warrior/Rav box. All they'd really have to do is add snake abdomens and a couple extra bits to some recut Warrior sprues and make a few design tweaks. And that way there's no extra shelf space requirement.

Mr.Rotty
01-09-2009, 22:10
Hmm. If that actually indicates new Raveners and isn't just a coincidence, that makes me think we might get a) plastic Ravs, and b) a combined Warrior/Rav box. All they'd really have to do is add snake abdomens and a couple extra bits to some recut Warrior sprues and make a few design tweaks. And that way there's no extra shelf space requirement.

Especially since flufflwise, there really specifically evolved warriors. Just give them snake tails and thicker claws and hey presto!

itcamefromthedeep
01-09-2009, 22:16
Or is it the large oval base?
It could very well be the large oval base. Good catch. What are the dimensions on that? 120 long by 80 wide?

As for the Exocrine and Dactylis, I'd prefer to see the Exocrine. Dactylis is to Basilisk as Exocrine is to Leman Russ, if you see what I mean. A Dactylis is artillery where an Exocrine is a battle tank.

Better than either of those would be a plastic Hydraphant...:D

silverstu
01-09-2009, 22:32
Hmm. If that actually indicates new Raveners and isn't just a coincidence, that makes me think we might get a) plastic Ravs, and b) a combined Warrior/Rav box. All they'd really have to do is add snake abdomens and a couple extra bits to some recut Warrior sprues and make a few design tweaks. And that way there's no extra shelf space requirement.

If they recut the sprues to combine warriors and ravs[and you'd have include wings in there too] -thats alot on one set of sprues - they wouldn't be cheap. I'd prefer separate kits with more biomorph options- perhaps different head options like the stealer and fex kits..

Absolutionis
01-09-2009, 22:37
If they recut the sprues to combine warriors and ravs[and you'd have include wings in there too] -thats alot on one set of sprues - they wouldn't be cheap. I'd prefer separate kits with more biomorph options- perhaps different head options like the stealer and fex kits..Well, Ravener heads DO have the side mandibles that are absent on Warriors. Having a "Ravener Upgrade" sprue would make sense as a replacement for the Heavy Weapons sprue in boxed sets.

silverstu
01-09-2009, 22:55
Yeah but you've got to remember that they might see a new plastic kit as opportunity to give units more options - could be interesting..

Gray Hunter
02-09-2009, 01:38
If they recut the sprues to combine warriors and ravs[and you'd have include wings in there too] -thats alot on one set of sprues - they wouldn't be cheap. I'd prefer separate kits with more biomorph options- perhaps different head options like the stealer and fex kits..

It seems like GW is making good use of their improved plastics technology to really pack a lot onto sprues without increasing the price too much, so I don't think they will be that much more expensive than the Warriors we have now. Plus, you'd get all sorts of extra gubbins for conversions.

I see the merging of the Warriors box into a combined plastic Warriors/Raveners box quite likely. Shelf space is always at a premium in GW stores and they seem to be doing these combi boxes more and more, e.g. Lootas/Burna Boyz. Personally, I love it!

Atherakhia
02-09-2009, 08:03
In regards to the Warriors/Rav box idea, surely they could do it similarly to the Gaunts set? Say, bits for 3 Warriors and 1 Ravener?

Absolutionis
02-09-2009, 13:07
In regards to the Warriors/Rav box idea, surely they could do it similarly to the Gaunts set? Say, bits for 3 Warriors and 1 Ravener?That would be really annoying considering many of us (myself included) already have enough Warriors and barely any Raveners. Nobody would buy these boxes.

destroyerlord
02-09-2009, 14:34
Mixed boxes are bad (see gaunts box). Combo boxes are the best thing since sliced bread (see lootas/burners). More bits please!

Atherakhia
02-09-2009, 14:44
I do agree with this. I bought a few gaunts boxes, a few termagant boxes and then a shed load of hormagaunts on ebay

Putty
04-09-2009, 01:32
alas, its about giving the customer full control of what they want to buy

there is nothing more annoying then combo boxes (hormagaunts + termagaunts) when you are trying to build a force that has one of and not either (which most people do) but then again, you can convert the hormaguants to spinegaunts, hence you have spinegaunts AND termagaunts.

But still, I digress, one unit per box please. If its Hormagaunts, let them be in a box, if its shooty gaunts, another box.

Raveners and Warriors are a whole different ball game because they fill different slots in the FoC. Its certainly unwise to sell them together.

silloh
04-09-2009, 02:10
Considering the flying base for the Valkyrie ; the fact that GW has some great improvements in the plastic departments ; the size of the Valkyrie.

I fully expect some sort of "Valkyrie" womb type troop carrying thing for the tyranids.

The flying base they made they could use with the Tyranid creature and it could be similar in size to the Valkyrie as well.

Imperius
04-09-2009, 02:38
For anyone who has played Starcraft, while I don't think there will be a transport for the Tyranids, imagine a Zerg Overlord.

Writerski7
04-09-2009, 02:57
THere are transport options for Tyranids in Epic . . . large beetle thing that carries nids. but, and this is just some thinking . . . isn't the Trygon bigger than the Fex? It certianly looks bigger . . . in my humble opinion . . .

Absolutionis
04-09-2009, 03:37
The Trygon is pretty much a transport with its tunneling gimmick. Arguably, this variant of transport is better than using a vehicle.

Also, if you're going for a flying transport, the Harridan looks much cooler than those ugly Zerg Overlord things.

mistblade
04-09-2009, 04:20
i sincerely hope they don't unless the make them a little better, i know they are sick but not elite sick...

mistblade
04-09-2009, 04:21
above is to the genestealers becoming elites rumor

Shadowfax
04-09-2009, 04:30
The #1 priority for me in this codex is Lictors becoming the terrifying badasses they should have been from the start. I think GW's recent history of buffing the weakest units from the previous edition bodes well for the Lictor. Keeping my fingers crossed.

But on that note, I hope they don't nerf the various cool fex builds that people have gotten used to fielding. It's fine if the power level of various upgrades/weapons/loadouts is rebalanced, but I hope that no build is rendered useless. I must say that I fear for the continued viability of TL Devourer fexes, though.

I haven't had time to scour every last post in the thread yet, so I hope I'm not repeating anybody near-verbatim. But the new nid book is about the only thing that could draw my attention back to 40k from WFB. I'm so over my Dark Angels, and my Necrons are as boring as ever. Tyranids have always been the army I'm most passionate about, but I've tried every sort of armylist you could imagine throughout 4th and 5th edition, so I'm ready for a new look.

Vineas
04-09-2009, 09:03
I won an auction on Ebay for the Broodlord. Judging from the size of the pic on page 1 he makes even the current metal one look tiny.

I want to see plastic Tyrant w/wings, plastic wings for Warriors (doubtful as FW has resins) but mostly I don't want to see 'stealers get moved to Elites unless the BL makes them Troops. Yes the gaunts might see an inmprovement but I'm trying to get up to 83 'stealers before February, would hate to have 50+ I can't use. :(

Oh, and make lictors badass. Hell, Marbo is better than a lictor at everything and cheaper. LOL

misterboff
04-09-2009, 22:51
I've just looked through the thread, and I don't think this has been mentioned yet. In this month's White Dwarf (the Space Hulk one) there's an article about a studio campaign, and a very subtle mention of Phil Kelly's Trygon - "which the good guys sportingly let him use throughout the campaign". To me, this reads as Phil Kelly's opponents kindly allowing him to use the new Tyranid Codex which now allows his Trygon in non-Apocalypse games.

Now a few thoughts from me. I think that Hive Tyrants could potentially allow Tyranid Warriors as Troops in the same way as Ork Warbosses and Nobz, and/or Winged Hive Tyrants allow Gargoyles as Troops in the same way as a SM Captain on a Bike.

Regarding Biovores, they produced all three types of Spore Mine in plastic for BfM, so maybe they could stick them on a sprue with a new plastic Biovore? I don't think that anybody uses Spore Mines as a Fast Attack choice, so they could probably scrap that choice altogether.

As far a the whole Carnifex FOC debate goes, I could see it going one of two ways:

1-3 per Heavy Support choice (like IG tanks), but they probably have to have the same biomorphs or else have some kind of special rule drawback
Separate Elite and Heavy Support choices, but with different biomorphs for each (like IG Sentinels)

I like option 2 best. Perhaps they could have Elite for assault and Heavy Support for shooting?

misterboff

Bregalad
04-09-2009, 23:19
Kelly confirmed 4 new races never before in a Tyranid Codex, with one of them dwarfing the Carnifex. The latter is certainly the Plastic Trygon (see pic1 and 2), that was confirmed by several unnamed sources.
Well, the (plastic) trygon as a new unit in the Codex is mentioned several times in this thread, esp. in the first post summary.

xNytmare
04-09-2009, 23:21
I'd imagine they would combine the current elite fex set up, into the broods of 1-3 for a heavy slot.

i.e. "Any carnifex with a total under 115 points, can be taken in a brood of 1-3 for a single heavy support choice,"

How many effective builds are there for an elite fex anyways? Dakka, Screamer, Boom only really... So this would make sense to structure it this way.

Imperius
05-09-2009, 00:23
{sarcasm}It wouldn't even be that unfair, with a points limit like that, the carnifexes are slightly less Uber!{/sarcrasm}

Unless the carnifex is suddenly too costly to make squads of 3, like the Leman Russ Battletank, I don't see this as a balanced option.

itcamefromthedeep
05-09-2009, 04:06
Regarding Biovores, they produced all three types of Spore Mine in plastic for BfM, so maybe they could stick them on a sprue with a new plastic Biovore?

Please no plastic Biovores. They'd be the centerpiece of the new battleforce...

I'd expect the battleforce to be something atrocious like:
8 Gargoyles
3 Warriors
8 Genestealers
Biovore

HsojVvad
05-09-2009, 04:53
Please no plastic Biovores. They'd be the centerpiece of the new battleforce...

I'd expect the battleforce to be something atrocious like:
8 Gargoyles
3 Warriors
8 Genestealers
Biovore

Where is the HQ choice?

Born Again
05-09-2009, 05:23
Looks like I'll be starting myself a 'nid army too. That Trygon is simply awesome.

Shadowfax
05-09-2009, 08:46
I don't anticipate a new Biovore model. They redid it for 4th edition because the 3rd edition model was a monstrosity, and they couldn't have sold that many since it's sucked from day one.

I can't see Carnifex squads happening either. Besides the inherent points cost problems, it doesn't fit with any established fluff. The classic image of a Carnifex is a gigantic beast barreling into battle surrounded by disposable minions... not a monster operating with a posse of equally gigantic buddies.

Plastic Tyrant
Plastic Gargoyles
Plastic Trygon
Plastic Mycetic Spores

Possibly plastic Raveners, but that's sort of unnecessary imo.

Throw a couple of new creatures/special characters on top of that (in metal) and it's quite a thorough release.

Hexfourth
05-09-2009, 09:42
Where is the HQ choice?

Warriors have the option of being an HQ choice in the current 'Nid codex.

Egaeus
05-09-2009, 09:54
Where is the HQ choice?

Those would be the Warriors, just like it's always been. :confused:


I don't anticipate a new Biovore model. They redid it for 4th edition because the 3rd edition model was a monstrosity, and they couldn't have sold that many since it's sucked from day one.

Possibly plastic Raveners, but that's sort of unnecessary imo.

Throw a couple of new creatures/special characters on top of that (in metal) and it's quite a thorough release.

I wouldn't expect a new biovore model either, unless GW was serious about trying to get more of the range into plastics (although plastic Zoies would be nice too then). I think a lot of people are expecting some kind of change to Biovores to make them something players would actually want to take (and as I've suggested before they could drop the 0-1 limit on them, especially if they remain as broods, or even if they don't). In that situation a new model might sweeten the pot a bit, especially if they can get the players that already have models to buy new ones.

For me if they do Mycetic Spores then they've got to be freaking amazing for me to want to actually buy them rather than just dropping down a squashed grapefruit or something similar :p

Problem is metal Raveners really don't lend themselves well to large groups (although with the points-to-effectiveness ratio they have now that's not really an issue). Also, it seems like it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to make a conversion sprue and thus get double-duty out of (recut) Warriors...so to me there's a level where it just seems like good business sense to do it that way (although I would expect them as seperate sets and not "mixed in" as some have suggested).

Well, there's a lot to lookforward to so I fully expect to be thoroughly disappointed. :angel:

itcamefromthedeep
05-09-2009, 12:51
Where is the HQ choice?
You don't need an HQ choice in a Battleforce. Re: Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Necrons, Orks, Space Marines. Most don't have HQs.


I don't anticipate a new Biovore model.Neither do I, and particularly not in a first wave (with the Battleforce), but stranger things have happened.


I can't see Carnifex squads happening either. Besides the inherent points cost problems, it doesn't fit with any established fluff. The classic image of a Carnifex is a gigantic beast barreling into battle surrounded by disposable minions... not a monster operating with a posse of equally gigantic buddies.
Behemoth Crusher Brood from Apocalypse Reload:
"The infamous 'Crusher' Broods of Hive Fleet Behemoth were legendary for one thing above all - sheer brute force. Each Crusher Brood consists of several heavily armored Carnifexes..."

"Were it not for the Hive Fleet's constant deployment of absolute force, as epitomized by the Crusher Broods, ..."

Screamer-Killer Brood (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440061_Tyranid_Datasheet_-_Screamer_Killer_Brood.pdf)
"Screamer-killers are amongst the most common and dangerous Carnifexes to be encountered in large numbers. Broods of these massive beasts are used as shock troops and line breakers in major engagements by many Tyranids swarms."

There you go. Precedent in the background material. Even without that, I think Carnifex Broods would be perfectly in keeping with the Tyranids' style of "if one doesn't do the job, send ten."

dala_karn
05-09-2009, 14:56
best way for raveners to be plastic would be to include them in the warrior box set. have legs and the serpent tails as the upper torsos are identical. also a remodel of the current guants would be nice, hormas always break off the base and its really annoying, also having them in seperate boxs would help.

EDIT: also the current battleforce is great, it doesn't need changing.

HsojVvad
05-09-2009, 18:03
:o Oh I missed him saying 3 warriors. Thanks. I see it now :o

Egaeus
05-09-2009, 19:34
best way for raveners to be plastic would be to include them in the warrior box set. have legs and the serpent tails as the upper torsos are identical. also a remodel of the current guants would be nice, hormas always break off the base and its really annoying, also having them in seperate boxs would help.

EDIT: also the current battleforce is great, it doesn't need changing.

I don't see why that would be the "best way" at all. If you're going to the trouble of making a "serpent tail" sprue, why not just go the distance and make it a whole model? Along with the tail you need another set of scything talons or rending claws as well as a proper head. At that point you might as well include the body and be done with it.

They could put Gaunts in seperate boxes if they wanted, but as was discussed previously (it may not have been in this thread though) the tricky bit is the weapon upgrade sprue. As it is now they can sort of "short" you by giving you just enough to modify the shooty Gaunts OR the Hormagaunts (mainly an issue for things like the Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs). I sort of expect many of the biomorphs to go away in the new Codex (mainly because we've seen a streamlining of things in other books), which in some cases might be nice so you don't have the issue of "you shouldn't get the bonus you paid for because you didn't glue those fiddly little bits on your models".

itcamefromthedeep
05-09-2009, 23:35
I don't see why that would be the "best way" at all. If you're going to the trouble of making a "serpent tail" sprue, why not just go the distance and make it a whole model? Along with the tail you need another set of scything talons or rending claws as well as a proper head. At that point you might as well include the body and be done with it.

If the model is being re-sculpted, Gee Dubya could reasonably add in a second set of talons and a set of for each Warrior model. Then it's just the tail and the face we're talking about. The crest of the head could be re-used, and the current models have multiple face combinations.

Think of it this way. GW wants to make a Warrior kit with virtually every option. Why not add in a tail and a jaw and be done with it? One box on the shelf, and another model in the range gets to be plastic. That way even if for some reason Warriors or Raveners don't sell well, you'll still move the product instead of clogging up shelf space like the current metal Raveners.

EDIT: RIPPERS
If the Warriors and/or Gaunt box is being recut, pesumably GW will ditch the free Ripper base. If that's the case, that will mean one or possibly zero ways of getting plastic ripper models. The online store sells classic (terrible-looking) Rippers and Forge World sells awesome Rippers, but if Rippers stop sucking somehow then GW will want good models to sell. I wonder how that'll work out.

Putty
06-09-2009, 00:17
Or they can revamp the ravener's rules so that you cannot not buy them

Works everytime (see Chaos Daemons)

;)

Egaeus
06-09-2009, 01:50
Think of it this way. GW wants to make a Warrior kit with virtually every option. Why not add in a tail and a jaw and be done with it? One box on the shelf, and another model in the range gets to be plastic. That way even if for some reason Warriors or Raveners don't sell well, you'll still move the product instead of clogging up shelf space like the current metal Raveners.

I see one of two situations as most likely:

(1) They leave the Warrior models as is and create a new sprue for Raveners, allowing for a box to be either Warriors or Raveners (with the Raverner sprue containing another set of Talons and a set of Rending Claws as well as heads and whatever other options). As you mention, the plus side is one box for two uses. On the down side I can't imagine this without a significant price hike...and it wouldn't surprise me if they did it this way that you wouldn't see the box go up to $50 US...and if that's the case these models had better be super bad-a$$ ruleswise to convince people to pay that much for them (especially when as it is you need three boxes for a full unit...compared to say, Termies, where you only need 2).

(2) They recut the warriors and create a new Ravener sprue. I have suggested before that they create a body sprue and then a seperate "leg" and "tail" sprue to seperate Warriors and Raveners, with the idea being that the body sprue then gets to do double duty. But now that I think about it as long as you were recutting the sprue it might not be a bad idea to get it all on one sprue so you only have one new sprue rather than three, which should save on production costs and you get to pass the costs on to your customers :rolleyes:.


Or they can revamp the ravener's rules so that you cannot not buy them

Works everytime (see Chaos Daemons)

;)

I seriously doubt this would happen...what might be interesting would be seeing raveners re-done as a Warrior upgrade/option, in which case they get rolled into the Warrior entry. Although then it becomes a bit of interesting background re-writing/erasing.

mchmr6677
06-09-2009, 03:37
A unified warriors ravener kit would likely go for around $40 US. A little more then the current warrior box but still a discount compared to the current raveners. This plus the gargoyle kit would allow players to quickly and cost effectively create fast attack units which most players currently don't have (I do but I have at least one unit of each creature... and a total of 10K points. I recognise though I am not the norm and I have been playing since the dark days of the 3rd edition codex.)

Bolter Bait
06-09-2009, 05:24
EDIT: also the current battleforce is great, it doesn't need changing. Which is precisely why it's being changed. Can't have any decent boxed sets - if you want to save money, you gotta get crap GW wants to push but none of us want to actually buy normally, i.e. Possessed in CSM boxed set.

So pushing a boxed set with something like plastic Biovores (which we all a.) already have or b.) never want to field) or an insultingly low number of plastic Gargoyles (which, if they don't release this edition will result in an angry torch mob) is the perfect move on their part. In fact, my anus is positively QUIVERING with anticipation of the joys that will be contained in the new Tyranid boxed set and codex.

(See kids, by lowering your expectations and dreading the worst, you too can be overjoyed with glee when GW exceeds what you anticipated of them.)

Shadowfax
06-09-2009, 09:30
Behemoth Crusher Brood from Apocalypse Reload:
"The infamous 'Crusher' Broods of Hive Fleet Behemoth were legendary for one thing above all - sheer brute force. Each Crusher Brood consists of several heavily armored Carnifexes..."

"Were it not for the Hive Fleet's constant deployment of absolute force, as epitomized by the Crusher Broods, ..."

Screamer-Killer Brood (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440061_Tyranid_Datasheet_-_Screamer_Killer_Brood.pdf)
"Screamer-killers are amongst the most common and dangerous Carnifexes to be encountered in large numbers. Broods of these massive beasts are used as shock troops and line breakers in major engagements by many Tyranids swarms."

There you go. Precedent in the background material. Even without that, I think Carnifex Broods would be perfectly in keeping with the Tyranids' style of "if one doesn't do the job, send ten."
I feel like you have me on a technicality, here. That is fluff designed to sell models/Apocalypse rulebooks in greater numbers. Canon, because it comes from GW, but suspect all the same.

Marrak
06-09-2009, 10:46
On the subject of a ravener box, if they do make it, I just hope raveners get rending naturally, or they get a set of rending talons that looks like it'd work for a burrowing creature. :P

My lictors and genestealers keep glaring at me when I look towards theirs.

hendybadger
06-09-2009, 10:49
Maybe something like the RCs from the Death Leaper?

SteelTitan
06-09-2009, 12:27
I really hope they don't change a thing about the warrior box...i still think warriors are one of the best looking models in the range. If I hear anything on new warriors I will start stocking up the old ones.

Lamenter
06-09-2009, 13:21
I'd guess one of the new troop types would be a tyranid derived from Tau genetic material (Kroot & Vespid maybe), much like Zoanthopes come from Eldar, Biovores from Orks, etc.

itcamefromthedeep
06-09-2009, 13:38
I feel like you have me on a technicality, here. That is fluff designed to sell models/Apocalypse rulebooks in greater numbers. Canon, because it comes from GW, but suspect all the same.
Your insistence that Carnifexes must always be solitary, seems oddly narrow to me. Of course the Tyranids make cloned sets of Carnifexes, and they do it all the time. That they would at least consider working in groups seems natural to me. After looking around the codex a bit, I found a reference to a "pair" of Carnifexes, but certainly nothing to say that Carnifexes are always solitary. Broods aren't a staple of Tyranid background, but it's hardly a stretch.

Regardless of existing material, GW has a long history of changing background to suit its models and gaming decisions. If GW wants to do Carnifex broods (big IF there), they can write it into the background of any or all of the existing Hive Fleets, or write it into the style of Jormungandr or Moloch.

---

Oh and Bolter Bait, that's the tack I'm taking. I'm bracing myself for the inevitable butchery of the Battleforce. Just look at what happened to the Guard. All of the savings are wrapped up in a Sentinel. If that were a Hellhound I'd probably be playing Guard right now. If by some miracle the Tyranid Battleforce turns out to be decent then you and I can celebrate with internet cookies. If it stays as good as it is now it'll be like Christmas all over again... later, 'cause Tyranids will be after Christmas which hasn't come yet.

Vhalyar
06-09-2009, 15:39
I feel like you have me on a technicality, here. That is fluff designed to sell models/Apocalypse rulebooks in greater numbers. Canon, because it comes from GW, but suspect all the same.

GW makes the game, GW writes the fluff, GW is free is do whatever it wants. If in the new marine codex they say that Ultramarines must paint their helmets white and replace every verb with "ultra" when they speak, then that's that.

Or in this case, broods of Carnifexes are part of the Tyranid strategy when it calls for it. If the IG can muster up armored companies to deal with specific situations, why would the most adaptive species in the galaxy be incapable of producing a swarm of monstrous creatures to deal with a tenacious planet?

Sure, it's very business-oriented, but it still falls fair and square within the abilities of the Hive Mind. Let's hope that other play styles are brought up to par, instead of hoping this one gets removed. And then let's hope they all get a healthy power boost, because even Nidzilla is bleh.

Mr.Rotty
06-09-2009, 16:36
I don't mind them making carnifex broods, as long as they make anything other than nidzilla viable :)
And that way, if they are making biovores better, you would be able to have them without the thought of them taking up space a carnifex could be in.

Iracundus
06-09-2009, 17:03
Your insistence that Carnifexes must always be solitary, seems oddly narrow to me. Of course the Tyranids make cloned sets of Carnifexes, and they do it all the time. That they would at least consider working in groups seems natural to me. After looking around the codex a bit, I found a reference to a "pair" of Carnifexes, but certainly nothing to say that Carnifexes are always solitary. Broods aren't a staple of Tyranid background, but it's hardly a stretch.

Regardless of existing material, GW has a long history of changing background to suit its models and gaming decisions. If GW wants to do Carnifex broods (big IF there), they can write it into the background of any or all of the existing Hive Fleets, or write it into the style of Jormungandr or Moloch.


Carnifex broods aren't new at all. In Epic Hive War, by Andy Chambers in the days of 2nd ed. Epic in the 1990's, Carnifex broods (consisting of 3) existed.

Shadowfax
06-09-2009, 17:12
Your insistence that Carnifexes must always be solitary, seems oddly narrow to me. Of course the Tyranids make cloned sets of Carnifexes, and they do it all the time. That they would at least consider working in groups seems natural to me. After looking around the codex a bit, I found a reference to a "pair" of Carnifexes, but certainly nothing to say that Carnifexes are always solitary. Broods aren't a staple of Tyranid background, but it's hardly a stretch.

Regardless of existing material, GW has a long history of changing background to suit its models and gaming decisions. If GW wants to do Carnifex broods (big IF there), they can write it into the background of any or all of the existing Hive Fleets, or write it into the style of Jormungandr or Moloch.


GW makes the game, GW writes the fluff, GW is free is do whatever it wants. If in the new marine codex they say that Ultramarines must paint their helmets white and replace every verb with "ultra" when they speak, then that's that.

Or in this case, broods of Carnifexes are part of the Tyranid strategy when it calls for it. If the IG can muster up armored companies to deal with specific situations, why would the most adaptive species in the galaxy be incapable of producing a swarm of monstrous creatures to deal with a tenacious planet?

Sure, it's very business-oriented, but it still falls fair and square within the abilities of the Hive Mind. Let's hope that other play styles are brought up to par, instead of hoping this one gets removed. And then let's hope they all get a healthy power boost, because even Nidzilla is bleh.
Everything you guys say is true, but it doesn't make me any more comfortable with the idea of Carnifex broods.

I think that the new book should definitely preserve the option to field at least 6 Carnifexes (perhaps as an "unlockable" list bestowed by Old One Eye).

It would be harsh for the Nidzilla players to find 50% of their monstrous creature expenditures suddenly unusable.

But 'fex Broods just present too many challenges and question marks to be worth designing, not to mention inherently being an "all your eggs in one basket" kind of deal. So I hope that potentiality remains nothing more than a fan-created idea.

Vepr
06-09-2009, 17:18
I would not mind them making elite fexs brood only. That would solve some of the complaints about elite fexs but still make them viable especially if they give them a little speed boost for CC purposes. I would take a brood of screamer killers.

Shadowfax
06-09-2009, 17:23
As it stands I would rather take 3 separate Screamer-Killers than a brood of 3 of them. Of course, this would probably change if the other Elite options were made more worthwhile (primarily in the case of Lictors, but Warriors could also use some more options & flexibility; as it stands there are only a handful of effective builds for them, and most of them are opponent-army-specific).

Egaeus
06-09-2009, 20:03
Oh and Bolter Bait, that's the tack I'm taking. I'm bracing myself for the inevitable butchery of the Battleforce. Just look at what happened to the Guard. All of the savings are wrapped up in a Sentinel. If that were a Hellhound I'd probably be playing Guard right now. If by some miracle the Tyranid Battleforce turns out to be decent then you and I can celebrate with internet cookies. If it stays as good as it is now it'll be like Christmas all over again... later, 'cause Tyranids will be after Christmas which hasn't come yet.

That's not entirely accurate as IIRC the old battleforce was simply two Infantry Squads, the Heavy Weapon Squad and the Russ. The current set removes the russ and gives you a Sentinel and Command Squad in place. With GW's retail prices this is actually a better deal comparative to the old set, plus it's arguably more useful as you actually get a fieldable troops units as opposed to still needing a Command Squad (although before if you wanted to use the HWT as squad upgrades you could build an ad-hoc command squad but that made things not quite as efficient). Not really trying to defend GW per se, just wanting to make an accurate representation of things.

I can't think of any way the Battleforce wouldn't be "decent"...my best guess at this point would be if the plastic Gargoyles come to pass we may see them in the new battleforce. Another thought was that if they do plastic Raverners then they could have a set with 6 Warriors/Raveners (intending 3 of each but obviously dependent on how they end up actually doing the models). Toss in a box of Gaunts and 'Stealers and you're done (again depending on how they decide to do other things...if they actually go through with breaking up Shooty gaunts and Hormies then perhaps a "box" of each of these). Personally, if they did the 6 Warrior/Ravener box I would seriously looking at picking up a few (although this will probably depend on how the units end up in the Codex...if Ravs are still ridiculously overpriced then probably not :angel:).

genestealer_baldric
06-09-2009, 20:28
I'd guess one of the new troop types would be a tyranid derived from Tau genetic material (Kroot & Vespid maybe), much like Zoanthopes come from Eldar, Biovores from Orks, etc.

Nids using Tau DNA oh great my all my nids will be short sighted :(

Angelwing
06-09-2009, 21:08
I feel like you have me on a technicality, here. That is fluff designed to sell models/Apocalypse rulebooks in greater numbers. Canon, because it comes from GW, but suspect all the same.

The general thought isn't that new.
The 2nd ed codex colour section shows a picture with two models and has the description of a carnifex brood. A picture underneath shows 3 charging leman russ tanks.

HsojVvad
06-09-2009, 22:16
So do you think they will update the fluff for the 'Nids? I mean like when Hive Fleet Leviathen got tricked going into Ork space and having a war with the Orks. Do you think we will find out who wins?

Or maybe we will get a new 'Nid orkish type unit?

Vhalyar
06-09-2009, 22:33
So do you think they will update the fluff for the 'Nids? I mean like when Hive Fleet Leviathen got tricked going into Ork space and having a war with the Orks. Do you think we will find out who wins?

Or maybe we will get a new 'Nid orkish type unit?

Considering the changes to Moloch's web site, I wouldn't be surprised if Hive Fleet Moloch made an appearance in the new codex.

Hive Fleet Jormungandr is currently mucking up in the Ultima Segmentum, so again we'll probably have this one mentioned in the codex.

Actually, (and to get away from the Nidzilla talk) I'd love if the codex focused on the smaller Hive Fleets.

itcamefromthedeep
06-09-2009, 23:40
That's not entirely accurate as IIRC the old battleforce was simply two Infantry Squads, the Heavy Weapon Squad and the Russ.
There were 2 - 1/2 infantry squads for total 25 infantry. They last five weren't a Command Squad per se, but converting an officer isn't all that hard.

Page 166 of the hardcover 40k Rulebook has 2 new Hive Fleets: they are explicity called Jormungandr, Moloch and Hydra. They also included Hive Fleet Colossus, presumably from the "Forgotten Fleets" section on page 25 of Codex: Dino-Lobsters from Space.

Moloch is the smallest, out of what appears to be the galactic North. Clockwise from there we have Jormungandr, Kraken, Colossus, Behemoth, Hydra, and Leviathan.

Hydra seems familiar, but I can't place the reference. My first 'Nid codex was in 3rd ed, so I am missing the a lot of the early background. Maybe someone else could fill us in?

EDIT: I expect that they'll leave the Octarius/Octavius war in limbo, like they did with Armageddon.

Shadowfax
07-09-2009, 01:08
Or maybe we will get a new 'Nid orkish type unit?
Considering that that was the idea responsible for the atrocious 3rd edition Biovore I'm not sure GW would want to revisit it.

Orks are the thuggish cartoony villains of 40k, and Tyranids are the pants-poopingly terrifying ones. They don't mix too well; usually each of the distinct flavours diminishes the other's strengths.

One more l'il point for the wishlist: make the Bonesword worth taking!

mchmr6677
07-09-2009, 04:50
Considering that that was the idea responsible for the atrocious 3rd edition Biovore I'm not sure GW would want to revisit it.

Orks are the thuggish cartoony villains of 40k, and Tyranids are the pants-poopingly terrifying ones. They don't mix too well; usually each of the distinct flavours diminishes the other's strengths.

One more l'il point for the wishlist: make the Bonesword worth taking!

CC fex broods would make the bonesword a very nasty inclusion in the force. Even a dead fex goes before the power fists...

silverstu
07-09-2009, 08:57
Page 166 of the hardcover 40k Rulebook has 2 new Hive Fleets: they are explicity called Jormungandr, Moloch and Hydra. They also included Hive Fleet Colossus, presumably from the "Forgotten Fleets" section on page 25 of Codex: Dino-Lobsters from Space.

Moloch is the smallest, out of what appears to be the galactic North. Clockwise from there we have Jormungandr, Kraken, Colossus, Behemoth, Hydra, and Leviathan.

Hydra seems familiar, but I can't place the reference. My first 'Nid codex was in 3rd ed, so I am missing the a lot of the early background. Maybe someone else could fill us in?

.

Hydra, Moloch and Jormungandr are new fleets in the fluff and belong to three legendary members of warpshadow [I think they all combine on Moloch's site too]. They are all mad converters- very inspirational stuff[hope that some of their larger creature ideas reflect some of Jes' thinking on new species for us..]

PhalanxLord
07-09-2009, 14:08
Nids have probably had more fan input into the fluff than any other race. Something like half the fluff from the 3rd ed book came from Sherman Bishop for example.

Iracundus
07-09-2009, 14:29
Probably because he was more capable than GW at producing more plausible sounding biology babble.

SteelTitan
08-09-2009, 06:37
Rather than focussing on species as a whole, personally i am very interested in how they will change the bio weapons we have. I mean, it is very likely that the VC will get a revamp/boost but how about the other weapons. I for one did not magnetise my warriors for instance and i love death spitters and i would hate to see them nerf the gun.

So what do you guys think how they will change our weapons (without regard to species taking them)? Will the X(+/-Y) for strength stay despite the current trend of uniformity?

itcamefromthedeep
08-09-2009, 07:07
So what do you guys think how they will change our weapons (without regard to species taking them)? Will the X(+/-Y) for strength stay despite the current trend of uniformity?

A standard stat line for weapons could be done, but it would dramatically change the dynamic between Monstrous Creatures and the smaller critters. The idea of a Devilfex putting out no more firepower than 4 Devilgaunts would elicit a great deal of nerd rage, as you'll see.

My impression is that the current weapon-symbiote system will remain.

Egaeus
08-09-2009, 07:26
Rather than focussing on species as a whole, personally i am very interested in how they will change the bio weapons we have. I mean, it is very likely that the VC will get a revamp/boost but how about the other weapons. I for one did not magnetise my warriors for instance and i love death spitters and i would hate to see them nerf the gun.

So what do you guys think how they will change our weapons (without regard to species taking them)? Will the X(+/-Y) for strength stay despite the current trend of uniformity?

Honestly I hadn't given it much thought myself as I figured most guns would probably stay pretty much similar to what they are now...with a few tweaks here and there. I like the system based on creature's stats and it adds a unique feature to the army.

Hmm...Death Spitters might get a change if they wanted to take away the "template spam of death"...but then there are other units (SM Devastators with Plasma/Missile Launchers for example) that can do it so it may not be considered a big deal. If anything I would guess they might become a bigger badder version of the Devourer (same or higher shot multiple with a better S and AP)...of course then the question would be "why take Devourers?" except for their (expected) cheaper cost (which is sometimes as good a reason as any).

Personally I would like to see something done with Spinefists as right now they're quite a bit worse than Fleshborers but not significantly cheaper...back in 3rd edition when it was 5 points for a Spinegaunt and 7 for a Termagant and the only major difference was the one point of Strength on a unit that was probably going to get one round of shooting before assaulting/being assaulted it wasn't such a big deal...the problem is the Fleshborer being only one point more for a S increase and living ammo (which basically equates with Twin-Linked) means the only reason to take Spinefists is they're slightly overall cheaper cost (and the fact that I have a bunch of them from 3rd). While "Living Ammo" doesn't technically fit them, the idea that they are poisioned could equate to a re-roll of the to-wound roll (so basically same game mechanic different fluff explanation)...I am tempted to suggest they actually be Poisoned (4+) but this seems like it has the potential to be OTT against Monstrous Creatures and such...again maybe this wouldn't be such a terrible thing...

Just a few initial thoughts.

Geep
08-09-2009, 10:35
I think poisoned/ living ammunition Spinefists would be too much- they're already Twin Linked.

I'd like to see the current system of weapon stats being based on the creature with the weapon stay.

I wonder if they'll go back to the old spike rifle and strangleweb.
A spikerifle could be a nice addition (longer range like a devourer, but fewer, better shots). Posion would suit this item as well.
Stranglewebs would be tricky to represent well- the white dwarf rules made the units small in number but with flamer style weapons (IIRC), which could be pretty overpowered.

genestealer_baldric
08-09-2009, 11:00
i would like the ablity for template weapons like a small unit of acid spraying critters.

iam glad we will have an effective way to deal with armour rather than having to realy mainly carnifexs.

iam trying to aviod this thread so i dont get impatient but i guess i just failed.

iam still against fexs broods though, despite them being my fav model.

gorgon
08-09-2009, 14:28
IMO, Spinefists counting as dual CCWs is an obvious fix that would give Gaunts an immediate boost in close combat.

incarna
08-09-2009, 14:53
Considering that that was the idea responsible for the atrocious 3rd edition Biovore I'm not sure GW would want to revisit it.

Orks are the thuggish cartoony villains of 40k, and Tyranids are the pants-poopingly terrifying ones. They don't mix too well; usually each of the distinct flavours diminishes the other's strengths.

One more l'il point for the wishlist: make the Bonesword worth taking!

I understand your position, but I disagree with it. I think that Tyranid fluff REQUIRES that Tyranid DNA and the DNA of other creatures in the galaxy – especially DNA as prevalent as Ork DNA, be represented in the army list.

I wouldn’t mind seeing another Tyranid unit based on Ork DNA. I like the IDEA of the Biovore (though I will admit that the unit, in its current form, falls short, but then again, so does the Zoanthrope). I’d actually like to see a Tyranid unit based on Tau DNA and even a Tyranid unit based on the human pariah gene – even if it’s a biomorph that combats psychic powers.

Rabid Bunny 666
08-09-2009, 15:02
AS to the Warrior/Ravener box idea, technically a new sprue with wings, ravener heads and tails as well as rending claws could be done and put one one sprue, might be a possibility.

HsojVvad
08-09-2009, 15:31
I understand your position, but I disagree with it. I think that Tyranid fluff REQUIRES that Tyranid DNA and the DNA of other creatures in the galaxy – especially DNA as prevalent as Ork DNA, be represented in the army list.



How would 'Nids get DNA from Necrons? If I am getting the Necron fluff correctly, the only living beings in a Necron army is the C'tan, and they are like Gods? So wouldn't that make scary Tyranids then? Watch what you wish for :D

I like to see a regular Termagaunt be about 1/3 the price of a SM. I guess a ratio of 3:1 sounds right for me agaisnt a SM force. So hopefully this will make us more hordy than Orks.

itcamefromthedeep
08-09-2009, 15:38
I understand your position, but I disagree with it. I think that Tyranid fluff REQUIRES that Tyranid DNA and the DNA of other creatures in the galaxy – especially DNA as prevalent as Ork DNA, be represented in the army list.
Using Ork DNA doesn't require that critter look anything like an Ork, so that pretty much doesn't matter.

We use genetic modification to put fish genes in tomatoes to make them more resistant to frost. Those tomatoes still just look like regular tomatoes, not tomatoes with a fish tail.