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Erebion
22-08-2009, 00:36
I will be playing a 4000 vs 4000 point game with wood elves against vampire counts. Any particular item combination or unit selection strategies at that point level?

I believe he will be fielding several units of black knight's Calvary along with at least 1 flying lord. His armies are usually combat heavy, though it still throws out an impressive amount of power dice.

Thanks for any advice or tactics.
Erebion

mr_vespa
22-08-2009, 01:07
Wow! This should be a very interesting match-up! Let's see if we can zero-in on some pointers against VC:

- Squelching VC magic is key to keeping his troops manageable (especially since you're Wood Elves and they are known for MSU). Bring out some casters of your own, a few dispel scrolls... Talismanic Tattoos should give you a small reprieve on your marked units, MR1 will mitigate the usage of all your DD. Maybe consider bringing the staff that allows you to re-roll dispel attempts?

- VC units don't break, they crumble and effectively tarpit. Unfortunately, Wood Elves are ill-suited for sustained combat (Lord on Dragon, Dryads, Treekin and Treemen aside). Bring some heavy fire support to dwindle down his numbers before engaging in other to bring down his units through quick CC and combat resolution. Peppering his units with bow shots will definitely help you throughout the battle.

- Walking into forests with his cavalry (because he will) will be a definite advantage for the Wood Elves. A many Wood Elf spells (Lore of Athel Loren, Lore of Life) will be much more effective on his troops while they are near/in the forests. Remember to use them to your advantage with careful castings of Tree Singing: moving them slightly to cut chargers, protecting your troops from his LoS (while effectively keeping yours, hur hur), setting up your own plans of attack.

- Beware Forbidden Lore! VCs are very potent spellcasters, and one might just be prancing around with Lore of Fire, which will deliver serious pain to your green glade friends.

- Fear the Banner of Hellfire. For a *very* modest investment, VCs can make one of their units strike with magical flaming attacks. Those two words are synonymous to 'effective versus Wood Elves'. No forest spirit save. No regeneration. Multiple wounds on flammable units. Ouch.

- Bring on the mobile assault platforms! Luring your enemy's troops into a charge with Fast Cavalry is a surefire way to set up a flank of your own. Try to make him make mistakes and capitalize on them.

- Deploy a very fighty lord. A Highborn with Spirit Sword (except for Vamp Lords, VC Leadership is pretty under-average since they don't use it), or a Treeman Ancient (either one with Annoyance of Netlings, of course) will win the day and mitigate the damage caused by big, scary VC creatures (Varghulfs), characters or units (Blood Knights, Grave Guard).

- Killing Blow is your friend! Negating VC Armour saves forces their characters to rely on Ward Saves/Regen (if he's fielding the Drakenhoff banner), and denying him the use of them *severely* hampers his army's effectiveness. Losing but 1 Vampire denies him 1 casting of IoN, which means D6 undead models will not haunt you again. Losing his general causes his entire army to start crumbling, something to remember!

I hope this helps a bit. Others will have some good insight too! Good luck :D

kardar233
22-08-2009, 02:54
I'd suggest taking one of each Lord: a unit-muncher Treeman Ancient, maybe with the spite that gives those multiple extra CC attacks, a character-killer Wardancer Highborn with Blades of Loec, Amber Pendant and Annoyance, and a Spellweaver with the Wand of Wych Elm. You'll want a couple of Spellsingers, one of which should be a scroll caddy for things like Wind of Undeath, and the other should have a Staff of Sorcery. Any Hero slots left could be devoted to the HoDA Noble, and mass-DD Branchwraiths.

I'm not up to speed on unit selection, but those are what scare me most in a WE list as a VC player.

Witchblade
22-08-2009, 04:00
You really need the wand of wych elm (reroll dispel attempts), multiple scrolls and a staff of sorcery (+1 to dispels) to somewhat mitigate his lethal magic phase.

At 4000 points you can forget about standard wood elf tactics like shoot and run. You will get into close combat and you will get stuck in multiple wars of attrition. War dancers and walking trees are your friend here. War dancers have the advantage of WS 6 and being able to killing blow knights and characters, so they're extra useful. You definitely need treekin and treemen to take the charge though. Lots of treemen (ancients)...

Archers probably won't cut it. He'll raise more than you can shoot, so aside from hills you probably won't have any use (or room on the table!) for them.

Eternal guard might actually come in handy here. They should win the attrition war against all his core troops without much trouble.

Fast cav and fliers are limited in their use. Some march blocking is ok and a suicide charge against a necromancer might help, but that's all they'll be able to do. I'd buy wild riders instead for the greater part. They won't hold up to any worthy units either, but they are useful after the first round of combat and they are one of your only ways to deny his ranks and cancel out his massive SCR advantage.

On the other hand, you need glade riders and archers to shoot his doggy screens and bait his blood knights, if he takes them.

I'd also take a highborn on forest dragon equiped to kill vampires and provide extra punch in the flanks. The spear that gives your opponents -1 to hit is useful here.

In short, good luck. You'll need it.

Ravenousone2
22-08-2009, 04:07
Just an FYI you dont get Regen Saves against killing blow.Only Ward Saves.

MercuryLamp
22-08-2009, 05:16
Take a Treeman Ancient with Annoyance of Netlings, to take out his general. Go on, he deserves it.

Erebion
22-08-2009, 15:29
First off, thanks everyone for the suggestions!

A couple more questions...

What are your opinions regarding the special char, Orion against vampire counts? He's fast, hits fairly hard and adds dispel dice.

Also what about fielding a branchwraith in place of one spell singer? slightly less defensively magic wise, but a tougher combatant?

What are peoples thoughts on dragontooth arrows and arcane bodkins?

Lord Dan
22-08-2009, 20:18
I've never been a huge fan of units trying to take on too many rolls. Instead of having a unit good at one thing and bad at another (like a spellsinger) you end up with a unit that is sort of good at both (like a branchwraith) which won't help you much against units that are annoyingly fantastic at both (like vampires).

I don't much care for Orion. All of his strengths (terror, hard hitting on the charge, easily runs down fleeing enemies) don't do much to VC. I'd leave him at home.

Dragontooth arrows are cool, but most of the VC army is going to be running at Ld9 or 10 from the abundance of vampires. I'd stick with the far more reliable bodkins. Go with the standard build:

Alter kindred lord, multiple shot bow, arcane bodkins, and something else. Normally I'd take the briar sheath for the -4 to hit in woods, but VC don't have any shooting that can be affected by negative modifiers. Stick him in woods somewhere and go to town.

bork da basher
23-08-2009, 07:17
beware blood knight units with the hellfire banner. they plough through treemen, treekin etc with scary easy.

you will really have to take the fight to him and put serious presure on from turn 1. at 4000pts the amount of power dice at his disposal will be overwhelming. you can expect your bowfire to be ludicrously ineffective as he raises up more with ease. beware new blocks of zombies popping out of the ground aswell, he'll be able to bring a unit of 20 to the table every turn no problems at all if not more if he wishes without really denting his magic.

at this point level i think VC will be one of the strongest armies out there solely down to the magic phase. if you can snipe his charecters in some way and reduce his raising power then winning won't be an uphill struggle. find his lord and do what it takes to remove him.