View Full Version : Days of Darkness - 9500 Empire v's DoC

22-08-2009, 06:50

I'll post a both lists once I have them but highlights will include....

1) All 4 greater deamons
2) 2 deamon princes
3) 75 deamonettes (3 units) with 3 heralds
4) 75 Bloodletters (3 units) with 3 heralds
5) 20 Plaugebearers with herald
6) 20 Horrors (2 units) with 2 heralds
7) 21 Flesh Hounds
8) 4 bases of Nurglings
9) 14 seekers (2 lots of 7) including 2 heralds
10) 12 Fiends of Slaanesh (4 units of 3)
11) I think I got maybe 3-4 bloodcrushers unassembled in my 'to-do' tray!

We're playing on this beautiful 8 * 4 table at this gaming club, basically one side is excellently moulded hills/cliffs, so basically Empire get to deploy were they have up to 4-5 levels of elevated posistions - most which only flyers will be able to get up.
He has over 60 Knights, and some fast cav, which will be lead by Karl Franz on his Dragon and Kurt Hellborg - these guys will arrive on a flank later in the game as reinforcements.
Statetroops and artillary will be holding the deamons at bay.
We'll take pictures and post them on Warseer in the battle report threads. Keep an eye out!

I am looking to play a series of smaller games before hand - the results of which will have an impact on the final game - any ideas?

I'll take digital pics of the event and post them - so long as people dont mind some unpainted units here and there! Theres no way we'll paint that much before next Friday!!!

22-08-2009, 09:06
1) All 4 greater deamons

He has over 60 Knights, and some fast cav, which will be lead by Karl Franz on his Dragon and Kurt Hellborg - these guys will arrive on a flank later in the game as reinforcements.
Statetroops and artillary will be holding the deamons at bay.

I'd be careful with this. With all four greater deamons you could roll him up before his reserves even get a chance to charge... I mean they have to roll to come on and then have to wait another turn to charge.

Also doesn't help when your general doesn't start on the boardwhen against a fear causing enemy...

How much artillary does he have?

23-08-2009, 21:49
so far we've thrown together 2 steam tanks, 6 cannons, a few mortars, one of those rocket batteries
He's got about 50 odd handgunners, 2- crossbows, I'm lending him my 30 handgunners
The way the moulded terrian is that your looking at cliff sections. Maybe about 20 odd ledges to deply warmachines, gunners, crossbows, archers, and wizards, but you cant charge them as some ledges are about 12-14 inches off the groundlevel - unless your a flier.
We're also going to incorporate some restrictions on my army (deamons), and maybe I'll deploy Slaanesh & Tzeentch in the first line, then Khorne & Nurgle in the second line.
I am thinking he wont have to roll to bring on units - the pistolliers/outriders can come on turn 2 from his choice of table edges, knights & steam tank can come on turn 3.
We've got some barricades to entrench the troops behind, so we'll see.
We're also going to spend the whole day playing smaller games - the outcomes of which will affect the main battle.
We're also using some of the Legendary battle rules to give the Empire a boost
Ultimatily we're not looking to see who wins/loses, but our aim is to creater an epic battle that plays out like a story. We'll do our utmost to grind each other down - and i'll be trying my best to see the Empire burn!!!

1) No icons for core units
2) Limit of 50pts for BSB icon
3) No special Characters apart from Karanack
4) Total magic level for all castors not to exceed 12
5) We're thinking of adapting some of the deamon rules - for eg if a deamon is attacked by a magical attack their ward save is reduced to 6+, deamon animosity (roll of a unit is within 6" of another God, on a 1 they both move towards each other and scrap it out. No causaulties to be caused by this but it means disruption to my units

And we'll see what else we can do to even it out.

Lord Dan
24-08-2009, 06:26
You shouldn't add other rules to "even it out". With a relatively balanced list Daemons are tough, but certainly not as overpowered as people complain about. Once you start running into insane combos...

24-08-2009, 09:09
4) Total magic level for all castors not to exceed 12

9500 points, 2 greater daemons that possibly know magic, 2 units of Horrors, 2 Heralds of Change, a Lord of Change... eh. Not to exceed 12? Just the horrors and heralds (of Change) alone are 8. Add in the Lord of Change and you have 10.

I think 12 is a bit strict. I don't think you'll have any capacity to upgrade your magics, depending on whether or not the Keeper and Great Unclean One are by default second level wizards, you'll miss out on all the fun spells (slight exaggeration: Tzeentch only has magic missile after magic missile) like the one that creates Nurglings.

At 9500 points you should consider not having a restriction more fit for 2500 points, unless the aim is just to get the magic phase over with quickly.

24-08-2009, 18:47
It sure sounds exciting! I agree with Lijacote and Lord Dan, though; you shouldn't worry too much about adding restrictions on your demons. Just make a sensable list and it should work out well.

I can't wait to see the lists and the report to follow!

25-08-2009, 07:21
Well I was actually taking a sensible list - core units of 20 strong with full commands (unless it's horrors, then they only come 10 strong, and lucky for me I only own 20!)
The restrictions are more to keep the overall setting of the game to be a game were it's all about the epic saga we're trying to create - so to do this we're going to start gaming around 10-11am and I've arranged for various players to come challenge the Empire player:

1) 2000pts of Beastman v's all mounted Empire relief column. The Empire must send their reinforcements to the threatend province (cant for the life of me spell it - they have purple/white livery, it's like Boughanhoffen or something like that, a city-state). However the feckless Gods of chaos are sending vison quests to the children of chaos - the beastmen. They are secretly gahtering in the forests outside Altdorf to ambush the Emperors column as they sally forth. The outcome of this game will determine if the EMpire can deploy their flank reserves in turn 3 or 4.
2) Summon the mastors. Warriors of chaos gather around Boughanhoffen - unknown to the city's master there is an idol of great power and malic which, if correctly used, can open a temporal gateway to the realms of chaos. Attracted by the flashes of lightning and errie sounds a state troop force from the city marches forth to investigate the strange goings on. This will be either a 2000 to 3000 pt game of Empire statetroops v's the warriors of chaos. The outcome of the game will determine if the chaos warriors can summon greater deamons to aide their dark cause. During the big game it is a given that there will be TWO greater deamons, but if the warriors can stop the empire troops there maybe up to FOUR greater deamons - of course the points for the GD will come from the overall points total but it will add a great twist to the game.

I'm trying to think of a scenerio were I can use my 2nd army of Greenskins to muddy the waters - any ideas? (PS the Chaos warriors and Beastmen are fielded by 2 friends who want to take part in the event but dislike large multiplayer games -this is a great way to get them involved and add some great narrative to the upcomming war!!!

Golden Lion
25-08-2009, 07:39
Sounds like a great idea, I am looking forward to the report(s).

bork da basher
25-08-2009, 07:52
ive played games this size before and i seriously advise you to "KEEP IT SIMPLE" the game will fry your brain just by the scale of the it alone, the things you have to remember and keep track of etc and it'll last for hours and hours if not days.

i'd drop all the restrictions, its too much and especially limiting the magic, at this scale there should be no holds barred. the points allow you to use anything regardless of cost and it would be a shame to waste the oppitunity. using 1 of each greater demon is fantastic and i'd be wanting them tooled upto the max. maybe just keep 1 special charecter to a limit per side but why should he get karl franz and you karacrap?

whilst i understand a desire for a epic battle and narrative play i think the demon side is getting unfairly neutered. judging from what he's got just in the shooting phase and the terrain described your at a dissadvantage right there. add in a flank charge to guard again with 60 knights and senior franz and i'd probably bet on the 'oomans winning.
demons are hard to but not that hard. i'd tone it down even up the sides and have a good old slogfest.

of course this is however your game and do as you please, im sure it'll make for a terrific BR regardless but just sharing my experiences of huge battles in an attempt to improve yours. :)

25-08-2009, 13:16
Well heres what ill be using roughly,

Relief Column
Kurt helborg
40 Reiksguard
10 Inner Circle Reiksguard with GW
15 Pistoliers
10 Outriders

The line....
Karl Franz on Dragon - he flies so he arrives to aid the main battle line early
Balthazar Gelt, flew in with the emperor
1 Gote
3-4 Captains
4 Wizards/Great Wizards
1 Popewagon and 2 additional priests
BsB - maybe Ludwig

100 Swordsmen
95 Halberdiers
75 Spears
90 Gunners
40 Crossbows
25 Archers
75 Militia

40 Greatswords
4 Cannons
1 Mortar

20 Flaggies
3 Steam tanks

Thats about it, unless I go through my boxes looking for more stuff heh, now I just have to make myself a list.

Wish the sons of sigmar luck!

26-08-2009, 09:08
I can just imagine the bloody emperor and wizard lord flying in, holding hands, singing Sigmar songs to keep warm on the windy flight in, the emperors got a couple of strapping lasses secured to the dragon to provide 'in-flight entertainment' (the in-flight film is a hand puppet show akin to punch and judy), and the in-flight meal are some peasants for the big beastie.

26-08-2009, 09:21
OK Folks - heres the games line up for Friday:

Game 1 [Sending out the reinforcements] - 2000 pts beasts v's 2000 pts Empire - the Empire is deployed in centre of 4*6board facing north (longways). The beasts get to deploy along the long sides either side in ambush setting and get 1st turn. They also can deploy a gaurd on the northen exit....
The idea is that the Empire need to get as many points off the table edge as possible - at least 75% ensure they arrive in turn 2, 50% turn 3, anything else turn 4 for the final game.
Game 2 [Noises in the woods] Unsure how the scenerio works in full, 2000 pts of Empire v's Chaos warriors - The idea is I have all 4 greater deamons and 2 princes, the WoC are trying to summon them to fight in the last battle. Empire victory reduces the number of GD I can field in the last battle as they disrupt the summoning. I will still have basic 2 GD to take though - after all it's a big game and I want to field some big names!
Game 3 [Stem the flow of magic] Bloody Elves are trying to stick their noses in, if they win they effectivly siphon off some of the excess magic fields saturating the area, so the DoC can only take a max of 8 magic levels. But if the DoC win they can take u/l magic levels.
Then it will be the big game itself - with Ksarn fielding the Empire and me with DoC
On antother table there will be a smaller 2000pt battle with WoC v's High Elves, the winner gets to take his survior units/heros (any casulties within a unit will be replenished to full strength for final battle).
WoC can come from under this wicked stone archway built on the Empire rear line, the HE can choose any of the 3 other table edges to come from

this was done as the WoC and HE players really want to join in but both are newbies to the hobby so we dont want the main game flow to slow down too much.
It will also provide a good twist as the game goes on as the allies might help swing the tide

If this day works out then we'll be trying our hand at an even more epic battle.

We'll open a new thread with the full army lists/pictures/battle reports once we've got the full info.

In the meantime please give us your ideas of decent house rules, do's and don'ts, etc to help us make this an incredible day!

26-08-2009, 15:36
if they win they effectivly siphon off some of the excess magic fields saturating the area, so the DoC can only take a max of 8 magic levels.

You are insane.

9500 points, 8 levels of magic.

You are insane.

26-08-2009, 16:26
You are insane.

9500 points, 8 levels of magic.

You are insane.

Indeed! At 5000 points, my Empire army averages around 14 PD, plus bounds and items. at 9500, the Empire army could blast you off the table if you only have 8 lvls of magic and they aren't restricted as well.

I would suggest a different penalty for losing the Magic-scenario. Perhaps a global -1 to casting and/or dispelling, or perhaps wizards generate 1 fewer die each, no common pool dice, etc.

I think I would go with no common dice, making each wizard ONLY be able to use what he generates, which can cripple some casters.

26-08-2009, 18:42
Indeed! At 5000 points, my Empire army averages around 14 PD, plus bounds and items.

Hell at 2000 my vampires have 14 PD plus bounds :evilgrin:

28-08-2009, 08:49
Well here is the final deamon list - I had to really scrape through my bitz box and 'project box' which had the dust of ages settled all over it. In order to make the 10,000 points limit I've had to re-think how the army was built and it was only by taking tooled up units I even made the 10,000 limit.
Also taking all the comments into account above I thought might as well take what I want for the 1st ever epic battle I'm playing, if it's as fun as we're hoping it is but I end up killing him in 2 turns the next time I'll place restrictions on the army.


Bloodthirster of Khorne, Obsidion armour, firestorm blade, immortal fury GENERAL
Deamon Prince of Khorne, Armour of Khorne, Firestorm Blade, Winged Horror
Skulltaker mountted on Kuhl'tyran (his personal Jugger)
Herald BSB, bannor of hell fire, jugger, firestorm blade with 27 Bloodletters, full command, skull totem
THREE heralds of khorne, juggers, firestorm blade, armour of khorne with 16 bloodletters, full command, skull totem
THREE units of 5 fleshounds
6 Fleshounds inc Karanack, Hound of Vengance (He has it in for Ludwig, the Empire BSB)


Keeper of Secrets, Spirt Swallower
Deamon Prince of Slaanesh, Winged Horror, Unatural Swiftness, allure of slaanesh, Level 2 Magic
FOUR heralds of slaanesh, level 1, Many armed monstrosity, with 19 deamonetters, full command, bannor of estacy
TWO heralds of slaanesh, mounted on steeds, many armed monstrosity, level 1, with 6 seekers, full command, siren standard
THREE units of 3 fiends


Great Unclean one, level 4, trappings of nurgle, slime trail, stream of bile
Herald of nurgle, level 1, slime trail, with 19 plaugebearers, full command, standard of seeping decay
4 nurgling bases


Lord of Change, level 4, power vortex, flames of tzeentch, dark magister
THREE heralds of Tzeentch, power vortex, winged horror with 10 horrors, full command, one has the changling, and icon of sorcery

Chaos Undivided
TWO units of 8 furies

FIRST BATTLE LINE will be all slaanesh
SECOND BATTLE LINE will be all khorne
Nurlge & Tzeentch will support both battlelines

The plan is to throw Slaanesh in my 1st wave, wear him down, and then charge in with Khorne.
Spells/nasty lords to take on his army ASAP in the hope of breaking his lines before the reinforcements turn up.

The Empire will be fielding ALL his special characters, Karl Franz, Kurt Hellborg, Volkmar, Balthhasar, Ludwig, and Luthor, in additon to normal characters.
We are hoping for a truly amazing battle, we'll keep you posted (it is tomorrow, or today if you read this on Friday)

28-08-2009, 08:52
PS - kept the build all heralds of same Gods identical, kept the core unit builds identical, and am thinking of just taking the same spells for all heralds of same gods just so there is less detail to focus on during the game and getting on with the battle.
With so many heros & Lords it would be nightmare if I tried to make them all unique.

01-09-2009, 08:59
Smokes and fire!!!!
what a battle - truly played out like an epic saga, so many twists and turns, tales of heroism and sacrifce from empire units, foul and diabolical deamons running rampant through the field of battle!
OVer 600 models pitched in over 6 hours of intense battle.
We have the pictures and story comming soon so stay posted to the most thrilling game of fantasy I've every played!!!!

01-09-2009, 22:09
can you even get 9500 points of daemons with 4 greater daemons without going above 8 magic levels? Assuming that you drop the horrors and dont take to many heralds it might be possible but its not going to be easy if you want a mixed force with multiple heroes.

02-09-2009, 00:16
Hey man, just use the old demon special rules. They're really simple to keep track of, and will significantly balance the game out.

They are:

1) The invulnerable saves given to the demons should be negated by magic attacks.
2) If you fail a break test, and you roll above your unmodified leadership, the entire unit vanishes as it loses its grip on the mortal realm.

These weaknesses should balance the superior statlines of the demon list out.

02-09-2009, 00:46
Those rules wouldn't change much, really, since they rely either on an empire character surviving long enough to attack back with his magic sword, or the empire player winning combat. If either of these were regular occurrences, the match-up would be even.

02-09-2009, 03:55
pictures please mate asap.....cannot wait