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Sarah S
22-08-2009, 08:57
Barbed Razordons must Stand and Shoot if they are able to do so.

Does this mean that they must declare a Stand and Shoot reaction as every charge reaction, even if the enemy is 1" away, and that they can never flee, or does it mean that they must only declare a Stand and Shoot reaction if the enemy is more than half their charge distance away?

The phrase "if they are able to do so" is pretty vague. It could equally refer to the ability to declare the reaction or the ability to carry out the shooting.

Necromancy Black
22-08-2009, 08:59
Your favourite FAQ says they can't flee.

As you said, if the enemy is 1" away you can still declare a Stand and Shoot reaction, but once measured you have to change to hold.

So they can still declare the Stand and Shoot reaction and thus must do so, even when you know they will be then forced to change to Hold.

Sarah S
22-08-2009, 09:02
Honestly, I hadn't even considered checking the FAQ...

Necromancy Black
22-08-2009, 09:10
I kinda comes down to the fact that at some times you know you out of half the charge range, sometimes you know your in but other times you can't tell either.

In these times the only way to know if your forces to Stand and Shoot is to measure before you declare but then that instantly tells you which one to take and removes the whole guessing part of it.
So, for consistency across everything, make it so they must always stand and shoot.

I honestly believe this is also one of the reasons they removed the wording about spells affecting units from MR (when using spells like Clensing Flare).

Sarah S
22-08-2009, 09:12
Yeah measurement timing can be a real pain in the ass.

That's why I honestly prefer games with "measure at any time" rules. WotR and Flames of War really benefit from that, and I'd love to see it incorporated into Warhammer.

Necromancy Black
22-08-2009, 09:24
Yeah measurement timing can be a real pain in the ass.

That's why I honestly prefer games with "measure at any time" rules. WotR and Flames of War really benefit from that, and I'd love to see it incorporated into Warhammer.

Have to honestly disagree with that :p I love the guessing range part of warhammer.

Sarah S
22-08-2009, 09:54
Ok, so I won't open another thread...

Ruination of Cities:

Flying models and other units that ignore terrain effects are unaffected by this spell.

Does a unit need to ignore all terrain effects, or only some or perhaps even a single terrain effect?

So do you need to be Ethereal, or would Aquatic be sufficient to be unaffected by the spell?

After all, a Skink does "ignore terrain effects," just not all terrain effects.

Necromancy Black
22-08-2009, 10:09
I'm not sure. Skirmishers seem like they would ignore the affects.

I think anything that ignores terrain in general (not just aquatic) would get around it. So Etheral, skirmishers, etc. Of course these don't ignore impassable terrain, but what does?

Sarah S
22-08-2009, 10:10
Yhettees?

Seems silly that the entire Wood Elf army would be immune to the spell doesn't it?

Arkanthaes
22-08-2009, 10:13
You'd need to ignore all terrain effects, otherwise it would say "units that ignore some terrain effects..."

Sarah S
22-08-2009, 10:21
No, I don't think that's true. In fact I think it's the complete opposite.

Like I said before, you can say about Skinks or Skirmishers or Wood Elf units that they "ignore terrain effects" which is the exact terminology of the spell description.

For the spell to only not work on units that ignore all terrain effects then it would have to say that units that "ignore all terrain effects" are unaffected.

Arkanthaes
22-08-2009, 10:23
They don't ignore terrain effects. They ignore some terrain effects, which are: blahblahblah, depends on the unit.

Necromancy Black
22-08-2009, 10:27
You'd need to ignore all terrain effects, otherwise it would say "units that ignore some terrain effects..."

Nor does it say you need to need "ignore all terrain effects..."

I only says units that ignore terrain affects. Skirmishers ignore terrain affects. The only one they don't ignore is impassable terrain, but they still ignore terrain affects.

Sarah S
22-08-2009, 10:28
If I have a dollar I have money.
I don't need to have all the money to have money.

If you ignore one terrain effect you ignore terrain effects.
You don't need to ignore all terrain effects to ignore terrain effects.

Additionally, nothing in the game ignores all terrain effects. Even ethereal units and Yhettees can't end their movement in impassable terrain, and flyers can't stop their flight in forests and so on, so they are still subject to some terrain effects. So if we had it your way then nothing is immune to the spell.

Arkanthaes
22-08-2009, 10:32
As far as I can tell, nothing actually ignores terrain effects, they simply don't suffer movement penalties for moving through it, thus still suffer effects (such as charging defended obstacles etc). However, that's silly and RaW and not being argued.

Also, Necromancy Black, read my post above you. That's my take on it: "Ignore terrain effects" =/= "ignore some terrain effects"

Sarah S: Nothing except flyers, because they're noted in the spell description as immune. Also, maybe GW were intending to bring out something that ignores terrain effects in upcoming books? Or maybe they thought they did have things that could ignore terrain effects? Who knows, with their writing skills they could be under the illusion they're rewriting "Goldilocks and the Three Bears".

Desert Rain
22-08-2009, 10:58
I'm not sure. Skirmishers seem like they would ignore the affects.

I think anything that ignores terrain in general (not just aquatic) would get around it. So Etheral, skirmishers, etc. Of course these don't ignore impassable terrain, but what does?
So that would meant that high elves with the banner of ellyrion ignores the affects?

Atrahasis
22-08-2009, 11:22
I submitted the question about Ruination of Cities for the Lizardmen FAQ when we were collecting queries for it, citing the Steam Tank (which ignores obstacles), Aquatic, and Wood Elves as examples.

The question was ignored.

Condottiere
22-08-2009, 11:28
Oh. Great.

Necromancy Black
22-08-2009, 15:33
Oh. Great.

Yep. Another reason to refuse any one I play with to field a Special Character.

Arkanthaes
22-08-2009, 15:58
No consideration as to what the special character is at all?

Bit harsh. Not every special character casuses massive rifts in the rules.

Sarah S
22-08-2009, 19:38
I wouldn't say that this one is massive either.

This one is easily resolved by rolling off.

T10
22-08-2009, 20:14
Consider this:

* The spell deals 3d6 hits on units in buildings.
* Units in buildings are always skirmishers.
* Units that "ignore terrain effects" are unaffected by the spell.

If all these are to hold value in the game then it follows that skirmishers are not a unit that "ignores terrain effects".

-T10

sulla
23-08-2009, 22:42
Yep. Another reason to refuse any one I play with to field a Special Character.Fair enough. Tullaris is very scary...;)

T10
24-08-2009, 09:07
Kurt Helborg is an unstoppable beast unmatched by anything in the Warhammer universe. Same with Grom the Paunch.

-T10

Condottiere
24-08-2009, 09:32
There's always a table revolt when Lumpin Croop is unveiled.

Sarah S
25-08-2009, 00:19
Oxyotl is a MONSTER!

Necromancy Black
25-08-2009, 01:17
Oxyotl is a MONSTER!

No, he just costs the points of one.

Arkanthaes
25-08-2009, 10:58
We all know the real lizardman monster is Tiqtaq'to

danny-d-b
25-08-2009, 15:08
just like we all know festus could have anyone any day with one hand, IN COMBAT