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Anton
23-08-2009, 02:39
Hello. This forum has lots of army specific threads which is all good and well, but I am looking for information on general tactics such as bait and flee, redirecting and stuff. In short, I would like to read more about the basics of this game, how to win a game of Warhammer, without going too much into army specifics.

Is there a thread for this, or perhaps some good website?

artyboy
23-08-2009, 04:14
It really does depend on which army you're using. Each army is designed to win around certain tactics.

willowdark
23-08-2009, 04:21
I've always been a big fan of the "weighted flank." Basically you mass all of your combat blocks to one flank, grouped tightly together to protect each other. Obviously Terrain gets in the way, but you can treat terrain as another element to protect your units, by hugging it to cover your flanks.

You put you slower units, your infantry and Chariots, in the center off to the weighted side and your faster stuff like knights on the far end. Medium speed things like M5 Monsters or Ogre units go between them to form something like a hinge for the battle line to bend around.

Everything advances, usually at full speed, in a swinging motion like a door. If done correctly you can surround the enemy so that wherever he faces he still exposes his flanks. You might sometimes have to punch through the soft spots to really open up those flanks, but you're still putting the pressure on.

This usually marries nicely with the "refused flank." Your shooters, fast cav, scouts, warmachines or skirmishers go on the opposite flank to shoot down and redirect whatever tries to advance down that side, protecting your weighted flank so it's free to do its job.

This is all very rudimentary, and usually requires some on the spot improvisation to really work, but it helps to keep a framework of goals during deployment and army list building.

leighr3029
23-08-2009, 10:14
Donīt know of any specific website etc but I know there are a bunch of articles in old white dwarfs (probably have a bunch of them) with different warhammer tactics which are not army specific. Looking back through actual battles that have occured (real life ones) you may be able to pick up a range of different tactics. You also pick your army based on how you want to play (and what suits you). For example my wood elf army is designed to surround and the enemy and attack from all sides. because of that I donīt take treekin as they donīt fit in with how I play. my tomb kings on the other hand sit back and soften up the enemy for the ensuing combat.

Here are a few tactics I know of with basic outlines of how they work.

Refused Flank. this works by deploying all your fast or very cheap units on one side of the field. your opponent will then deploy to counter this but then you deploy your main army on the other side effectively eiminating part of their army for the game. Armies like this need fast cavalry or very cheap units. Iīm thinking skaven poisoned wind globadiers (you can get units of 2 for 20pts) or fast cav.

Hammer and Anvil. this works by setting up a unit to be charged (an anvil unit). this is a unit which is meant to be able to take a charge. Iīm thinking undead tarpit or unbreakable units. Tough units and units with good armour saves do this well.
Once the enemy unit is stuck in combat then you are able to flank them with a hammer unit. This unit needs to be hard hitting and able to negate rank bonusī.
This is a tactic that Dwarfs do well as most units are both hammers and anvils.

bait and switch. Not sure if thatīs the right name but anyway. This works by baiting a unit to charge one of your units. your unit in turn flees leavings their unit open for a flank charge from another of your units. I think the best units for the bait are fast cav and flanking is most units that negate ranks ideally. works well against nasty cavalry units which usually only have one rank. bait them and then flank them where only one knight is in combat. you should be able to kill it and win the combat by at least 3 - 6 points

sacrificial unit. similar to the bait and switch except you need their unit further than their failed charge will take them. by doing this they will be further foward for your flank. Skaven are good at this as they have plenty of sacrificial units.

screening. this is simply having a sacrificial screen in front of your units. this is useful for frenzied units so they donīt charge out before you want them too or against gunlines. Skaven again excel at this as they can easily get a 50cm long screen for only 50 points (25 slaves).

forced charging. This is against frenzied units. put a unit in front of them so that they can charge or have to charge. you flee and leave them at their normal movement rate. This is best done by fast cavalry again as they can rally and then do it again.
You would use this to simply slow down their movement. if you have a gunline this will help a lot. giving you an additional one or two shooting phases can be deadly. This would be best against a fully frenzied army. One (or a few) unit(s) of fast cav can essentially slow down the entire army for you to soften them up for the ensuing combat.


Apart from tactics there are also army selection tactics as well (many of which I think I mentioned above). here are some below. What you want to do is succeed in one or more parts of the turn (movement, magic, shooting, close combat). I think a balanced army does the best as if you focus on one phase you can get blown away if your opponent can counter or something goes wrong. e.g. magic and your main caster gets taken out or miscasts and kills itself. shooting and the skaven storm banner is bought to the table, block combat units and your opponent mavouvers you out of the game.

1 - gunline. essentially massed shooting. Sit back and shoot the enemy before they get to you. Dwarfs, Empire and Tomb Kings are the best at this. Wood Elves can as well however they tend to use it to supplement their combat units (I do).
2 - magic heavy army. uses magic to either destroy the opponent or ensure victory in one of the other phases for your army. all armies (bar dwarfs) can do this.
3 - combat orientated. there are many varieties of this but you essentially try to dominate in combat. probably too many ways to go into now.


thereīs my two cents. there is naturally much more than that around but there is something to start with. you will also discover tactics which suit you and your army list.

Anton
23-08-2009, 14:35
Thanks for the information you could give me. I guess you become good at this game mostly by practicing and thinking for yourself.

Unuhexium
24-08-2009, 09:04
I'd like to add Marchblocking to the above list. If you can get a highly mobile unit at the side of or behind your opponents RnF troops then you can slow his army down to a crawl. Keeping one of your units within 8" of your opponents troops means they can't march. Units that do this well are flyers, fast cav and skirmishers with the scout specialrule. If you manage to get, let's say, a cheap fast cavalery unit behind your opponents army they can prevent maybe up to three RnF units from doing their job. If your unit has any shooting then you can nip off ranks from your opponents units by killing 1-2 models in each and thus weakening them for the comming melee. This tactic can work well against armies with little or no skirmishers/fast cav themselves, but is close to useless against dwarves since they can't be marchblocked.

Avian
24-08-2009, 20:49
In short, I would like to read more about the basics of this game, how to win a game of Warhammer, without going too much into army specifics.

Is there a thread for this, or perhaps some good website?

Well, on my website, I have actually an article called: How to Win (http://www.avianon.net/tactics/how_to_win.php)

Jind_Singh
25-08-2009, 08:26
so whats the oblique battle line? read about this years ago in white dwarf and didnt really get to grips with it. can anyone elighten this old grizzled soul?

Avian
25-08-2009, 08:30
Presumably another name for the Refused Flank (http://www.avianon.net/tactics/greenskin_battle_tactics.php#refused_0).


See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_line

Dragune
25-08-2009, 09:08
Great articles Avian. They were good reads :)

Jind_Singh
25-08-2009, 17:50
nah I dont think it's refused flank - its when units are set up in a staggered formation - giving you 2 distinct battle lines

........unit 2.........unit 4........unit 6
unit 1.........unit 3.........unit 5........unit 7

And they called it the oblique line - but I cant see how effective this tactic is, might work in real warfare back in the days but does it & could it work for Fantasy battle???

Tarian
25-08-2009, 17:54
I think most WFB people I know call that the "chessboard". It actually works for skaven etc who heavily outnumber and use the front rank as fodder/flee bait.

Ryilan
25-08-2009, 21:50
I think the only general tactic there is for all warhammer army is: Try to avoid bad dice karma :P

Doesn't matter if you play the most cheesy army in existence, if you throw like crap, your army is like crap.

Ryilan

Avian
25-08-2009, 21:55
nah I dont think it's refused flank - its when units are set up in a staggered formation - giving you 2 distinct battle lines

........unit 2.........unit 4........unit 6
unit 1.........unit 3.........unit 5........unit 7

And they called it the oblique line - but I cant see how effective this tactic is, might work in real warfare back in the days but does it & could it work for Fantasy battle???
Well, there is nothing oblique about that, so I guess they got the name wrong. :p Staggering the battle lines like that is not a bad idea, though. You can use it with weak units in the first line (warhounds, goblins, slaves, etc.) and more powerful units behind to counter-charge.

Tebz
26-08-2009, 23:54
I found the flying monster tactic on GW site in the astronomican section, quite an interesting read for a newbie to fantasy.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/astronomican.jsp

Avian
27-08-2009, 20:43
It's somewhat outdated, though. It's from january last year and several army books have been released after that, so a lot of the character builds aren't valid anymore.

Von Wibble
27-08-2009, 22:32
Presumably another name for the Refused Flank (http://www.avianon.net/tactics/greenskin_battle_tactics.php#refused_0).


See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_line

That's right. The oblique line in WD was WD177, with a battle report featuring it in WD178. It has nothing to do with chessboarding your army (though I believe that's one you need to know how to do if you use a horde like skaven or goblins and ueful to do even if not)

It is basically a case of putting your heavy hitters on one flank, and your unbreakable tarpits on the other.

General advice is difficult to come up with.

When choosing an army, I believe it should be capable of beating it opponent, or at least not being beaten, in at least 3 of the 4 phases of the game, with movement being the most important. If you can do that, then half the battle is won. After that you pick up far more from practice, and gaming (win or lose) than most articles can give you.

Lord Solar Plexus
28-08-2009, 13:19
This page also has some interesting and well-written articles:
http://warmongers.ziggyqubert.com/tiki-index.php?page=Library&PHPSESSID=50b1a9127d9aea951c4a76dbda3bea5f

Gazak Blacktoof
28-08-2009, 14:11
As a general philosophy (strategy?) I'd say that you should always endeavour to slow your opponent's best unit whilst ensuring that your best unit has something meaty it can get to grips with and chew on, so that you can net some victory points.

Magic, shooting, positioning and manoeuvre (all those tactical things) should be focused around achieving that goal. If you can get to that point in the majority of your games you'll win more than you lose.

If your opponent imply refuses to have a stand out unit, because they're playing with MSU (Multiple Small Units), then make sure you net as many victory points as you can without being surrounded.


Keep your plan simple.

Poseidal
28-08-2009, 14:26
Well, on my website, I have actually an article called: How to Win (http://www.avianon.net/tactics/how_to_win.php)

I found this a good read, thanks for writing this up.

Tebz
31-08-2009, 13:49
I second that nice one Avian, i found the calculation page entertaining :)