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Death Korp
23-08-2009, 21:13
I am wanting to make a new army for the 2010 'Throne of Skulls' Tournament, giving me a year to make an army, and learn how to play with it. I will be playing around with alot of Army Lists to see which one I am comfatable with playing. Armies included are:

-Lizardmen
-Vampire Counts
-High Elves
-Skaven
-Dark Elves
-Vampire Counts

I have a massive Warriors of Chaos army ongoing at the moment, so I want to do something a little different whilst I'm building them up. One of the armies I am intersted in is Lizardmen, mainly because I like lizards, and they are a decent army. Won't cost me too much either.

Here is a list I created earlier:

LORDS

*Slann Mage Priest: 415pts
-BSB
-2x Dispel Scrolls
-Bane Head
-Focus of Mystery
-The Focused Rumination

HEROES

*Skink Priest: 405pts
-Engine of the Gods
-Plaque of Tepok

*Skink Priest: 390pts
-Engine of the Gods


CORE

*10x Skink Skirmishers: 70pts

*10x Skink Skirmishers: 70pts

*16x Saurus Warriors: 222pts
-Full Command
-Spears

(Saurus boxes have 16 models in them, so I don't want to bother buying another box for 3 models)

SPECIAL

*15x Temple Guard: 275pts
-Full Command

RARE

*Salamander: 75pts

*Salamander: 75pts

TOTAL: 1997pts

Competative enough?

Cheers,

DK

mantanza
24-08-2009, 04:14
Nice list and I think I see where you are going with it.

Couple changes I would make that I think you will find to be much much better.


*Slann Mage Priest: 425pts
-BSB
-Cupped Hands
-Divne Plaque
-Focus of Mystery
-The Focused Rumination

Drop the plaque he is going to be in the temple guard anyway and doesn't need this.


*Skink Priest: 430pts
-Engine of the Gods
-Cube of Darkness

Change the Cube for a reg dispel scroll


*Skink Chief: 380pts
-Ancient Stegadon
-Stegadon War Spear

Upgrade this to a Engine of the gods level 2 with a dispel scroll and the Plaque of Tepok


CORE

*10x Skink Skirmishers: 70pts

*10x Skink Skirmishers: 70pts

*10x Skink Skirmishers: 70pts

Drop 1 unit of skinks and add in 18 Saurus with spear and a standard at 228



*20x Temple Guard: 405pts
-Full Command
-Totem of Prophecy

Drop these to 14 with the slann they are 3 ranks in total drop the full command except the standard and drop the magic standard making them 238. They are immune to psyc with the slann so the stanrdard is not needed, and they are stubborn, honestly they are to hold until a steg flanks in.

SO your revised list if I was going to play it would look like:

LORDS

*Slann Mage Priest: 445pts
-BSB
-Cupped Hands
-Focus of Mystery
-The Focused Rumination
-2x Dispel Scroll (The reason these are here is he is less likely to die then the priests)

HEROES

*Skink Priest: 405pts
-Engine of the Gods
-Plaque of Tepok

*Skink Priest: 390pts
-Engine of the Gods

CORE

*10x Skink Skirmishers: 70pts

*10x Skink Skirmishers: 70pts

*18x Saurus Warriors: 228pts
-Spears
-Standard Bearer

SPECIAL

*14x Temple Guard: 238pts
-Standard Bearer

RARE

*Salamander: 75pts

*Salamander: 75pts

TOTAL: 1996pts

Staurikosaurus
24-08-2009, 04:55
Drop cupped hands, take soul of stone if you're looking for protection from miscasts. If you want to give your slann a banner, I recommend Warbanner. Disciplines are good, Rumination and Mystery are must haves, but if you can fit it, take Becalming Cogitation as well. I also suggest getting Bane Head on your Slann

Run your saurus at 18 (6x3) or 20 (5x4) with spears and full command
Temple guard run at 16 (5x4) or 14 (6x3) with full command. If you want to give them a magic banner, I recommend Sun Standard or Plaque of Dominion.

2 dispel scrolls over 1 cube. You will have enough dice and enough protection from magic with becalming cogitation and plaque of dominion. As well, 2 engines are better than 1 engine and 1 chief steg.

Jetty Smurf
24-08-2009, 06:37
Cupped Hands is better than Soul of Stone.

Re-rolling on the miscast table... none of them are that great, and you could end up with a worse result than the first.

Cupped Hands has been faq'ed to transfer the miscast/avoid you taking the miscast for every single result on the table.

Not only that, but its 5 points cheaper than Soul of Stone. Let's see... 50 points to suffer a miscast or 45 points to not. I think the choice makes itself.

I understand that it's a 1 use item, but you are really having some bad luck if you miscast more than once per game. I know it happens, it has happened to me, but it's not an every game occurance.

I do however, agree with warbanner on the slann, and also bane head. But you might struggle to fit those into a 2k points list with what you have now.

I would highly recommend mantanza's revised list as it is close to what I would recommend in terms of changes to your current list.

Staurikosaurus
24-08-2009, 08:27
Most commonly, cupped hands does a fat lot of nothing to the opponent. If you're lucky it does one wound. So for 45 pts you did one wound to the opponent. Whereas for 5 pts more you can re-roll all miscasts made by your Slann for the entire game. This is a hell of a lot better as it remains useful for the entire game, especially versus Dark Elves carrying the ring of hotek. In addition, soul of stone does not use up your magic item allowance - nor can it destroyed by Law of Gold.

Additionally, FAQs are unofficial and as a result you can't expect every opponent to abide by them.

Jetty Smurf
24-08-2009, 13:33
If you are taking the cupped hands to hurt the enemies casters, then you are taking it for the wrong reasons, imo.

As for being able to re-roll miscasts, you are right but only against the ring. Any other time it is useless, as chances are you are going to miscast once per game.

One miscast per game that you can be not affected by or 1 miscast per game that (if unlucky) can cause a bit of carnage against you, or (if lucky) still does damage to you or your magic phase, albeit minor.

I don't see why anyone would not adhere to FAQs. As "unofficial" as they may be, they are still written by the very company that put out the rules that are "official". This makes them official enough for both me, and the people I play with. Maybe I'm just lucky in that regard ;)

Wolf 11x
24-08-2009, 13:48
I'd rather have a Power Stone and Dispel Scroll than Cupped Hands. Unless you roll double 1s, it really isn't worth it.

Death Korp
24-08-2009, 14:27
Thanks for all the help guys, I appriciate it!

I'll change the list above. (Done)

DK

mantanza
24-08-2009, 15:42
Cupped hands is amazing for a couple reasons.

1. Lets be honest if you are running a Slann odds are very likely he is your most expensive model on the table, AND your army leader, AND a big magic focus, if he goes down odds are very strong that you are going to have a hard time winning. A miscast can kill him, or end a very important magic phase etc. The cup lets you continue with your phase and takes the worry out of the slim chance he might out right die. Where soul of stone lessens the chance of something bad happening, it can still happen!!!

2. Soul of Stone costs more, plain and simple it is 5 points more...now you argue it doesn't come out of your magic item allotment? I have never used up my Slann's magic items, not even close. So this is a non-issue most of the time.

3. It hurts enemy casters...wow this is just great, so not only do I get to save myself I also get the bonus of potentially hurting my enemy caster or making them loose a spell and/or a spell level...many level 2 casters have only 2 wounds I just got half points if it does 1 wound...that alone is fine, but if I kill them or make them loose a magic level or spell that is great too!

4. Finally I just don't trust the Soul of Stone, Re-rolling is not good enough for me, it can turn a bad roll into a deadly roll, I could just see myself in a critical magic phase and miscast, I then roll the result to end the magic phase, I re-roll it because I need this phase, and then get something much much worse!!! I would rather negate the whole mis-cast on a 2+ this is more reliable to me!

mantanza
24-08-2009, 15:46
OK with your new list looking at it only a couple small things I might change.

Drop 1 Temple guard run them 6 wide, with the Slann this makes 3 Ranks.

With the extra points buy an extra handler for both Salamanders..it makes a big big difference. With the left overs buy yourself an extra Skink skirmisher I guess not really sure what to do with them, but I am sure you will notice the extra handler much much more then an extra Temple Guard.

Gah I missed that you dropped the cup too, it is your call but your Slann is a lot of points to chance killing on mis-cast, I would go so far as dropping 1 Saurus warrior and run them 5 wide, drop the Skink I just told you to add, and even drop 1 dispel scroll to run this item.

mr_vespa
24-08-2009, 16:01
Cupped Hands' use is not aggressive at all, it's meant to take a miscast and fling it away from your Slaan. Said protected miscast does not affect him at all, making it worthwhile. It's by no means a mandatory item, but you never know when you might miscast.

You list does seem solid though. 18 Spear Saurus would be the recommended US for maximum effeciency versus point cost. With 2 Engines though, I don't know if the sallies are *that* important to the list. With the saved points, you could invest in more Saurus, TG, Cupped Hands, a Banner somewhere?

mantanza
24-08-2009, 16:22
I have seen salamanders do great things...and then I have seen them do nothing as well. However what they do bring to the list is more ranged threat...it keeps your opponent honest. They are enough of a threat to hold flanks Vs light cav, and even heavy cav.

How does upping with the extra handler cause a higher chance of a panic test I am confused? They become US 7 instead of 6...casualties from eating them do not cause panic, shooting is still them same randomization....I am just confused how adding one could be bad. To me adding one stop a bad chomp from the salamander from destroying the whole unit as even on a bad roll you will still have one kink left.

mr_vespa
24-08-2009, 16:44
By all means, I never said sallies were bad. They are amazing flame-spitting baddies. Just that reinvesting his points might be a more judicious option, seeing as he would need to bolster his anvil (IMO) and topping 18 Saurus is always a good idea.

I wrote what? LOL! For some reason, I had imagined 2 handlers per sally, not 3. My bad. This has been retconned. (This is what happens when work drills your mind)

Death Korp
24-08-2009, 20:14
So, basically the things I need to change are:

-More Saurus (still not sure about this as I have to buy another box, but its a long time till then).
-More Salamander handlers.
-Cupped Hands.

How do I get the points for this? I need the full Command for my Saurus (maybe not the champion) to make them reliable. Shall I drop the Temple Guard to just 14?

Thanks for the help so far guys, keep it coming!

Cheers,

DK

Staurikosaurus
24-08-2009, 20:50
I don't see why anyone would not adhere to FAQs. As "unofficial" as they may be, they are still written by the very company that put out the rules that are "official". This makes them official enough for both me, and the people I play with. Maybe I'm just lucky in that regard ;)

People in my gaming area don't abide by them for a number of reasons. The answers are often contradictory to the rules (monstrous characters are not monsters ??? treemen can stand and shoot to the rear and flank ???). Most of us have been playing for 10+ years and have a good grasp of the rules. We don't need FAQs written neither by GW nor by people who haven't read the rules.

@ Death Korp

1. More saurus is always good.
2. Don't really need more handlers for salamanders. They are great for causing panic tests and against rank and file. Many people forget that they need only cause a single casualty to force a panic test
3. Cupped Hands is a personal choice. If you think it is worth it go for it. Otherwise I still stand by my recommendation of Soul of Stone over Cupped Hands. Also, if you can fit it get Becalming Cogitation in there. Stops such things as irresistible force and shuts down Necromantic spam.
4. still don't think plaque of tepok is worthwhile as your pool dice are most likely going to go to your slann, leaving 3 dice to cast 3 spells on your engine.
Take a power stone for your slann or something else instead.