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Vepr
24-08-2009, 15:50
It must be old age doing it to me (grumpy old man syndrome) but I get a little agitated when a new codex comes out for my main army (nids) and a wave of people jump on board the new codex bandwagon. Now I really don't have a good reason for it other than the feeling that I was here first (damn kids stay off my lawn with a wave of the cane).

It happened to me in 3rd and 4th and now it is happening again. Nids have always been my first love in 40K and I get a little annoyed at the bandwagon jumpers mainly because for the period of time it takes for another dex to come out you get comments like "You are only playing nids because they are on top now..." etc. Now I know some of you have nid armies shelved waiting on a new dex (damn kids can't stay focused). ;)

Time for a nap. :p

Lord Malorne
24-08-2009, 15:52
For some people though, they are waiting for the new codex before they collect the army for the first (or second, or third...) time, like Necrons, I won't be doing my force until the new codex is out, then I will likely be looked at as a bandwagoner.

Bestial Fury
24-08-2009, 15:56
I've "counseled" fellow wolves who have the sentiment.

Summary:

1. It brings new fresh blood to the army. Energy and enthusiasm
2. It brings money and attention to the army to ensure GW still feels like they should have goodies.
3. Those who just go to the "next best thing" will fall off and those who fall in love with the army for the fluff/feel may never leave.

Max Jet
24-08-2009, 15:57
Would you rather have an underdog army, Necron Rules an all metal army (Inquisition) and 10 year old but ugly models? (Dark Eldar)

On the other side is a popular space marine army, with all the fancy new toys, an all excellent sculpt plastic army with rules supporting them whenever possible.

More people buying Tyranids means more and better support for my army of choice.

CoolKidRoc
24-08-2009, 15:59
Yeah, I want to play Inquisition, but prolly won't collecting until the next dex.

1. The current one is 6 years old, and the updates to other dexes makes it hard to match up points for points ie (55 point ig chimer vs 99 point DH chimera)

2. I want to see what the new model releases are

3. It keeps me from spending to much money and allows me to wrap up stuff on my current army :D

Gimp
24-08-2009, 16:00
I know the feeling.

My friends and I have had the same problems with our my marines. I have been playing Crimson Fists since the 3rd codex with captain cortez now everyone is play "crimson fists" with Pedro. My friends who play with white scars and another who plays salamanders also have the same problem.

With my Dark Elves (fantasy i know but still warhammer) I used to field Hydras and Blackguard because i liked the models and fluff. I have not changed my list with the new army book and now everyone gives me the cheese eye.

Vepr
24-08-2009, 16:10
Would you rather have an underdog army, Necron Rules an all metal army (Inquisition) and 10 year old but ugly models? (Dark Eldar)

On the other side is a popular space marine army, with all the fancy new toys, an all excellent sculpt plastic army with rules supporting them whenever possible.

More people buying Tyranids means more and better support for my army of choice.

I know it is a good thing. I just can't help the feeling. :) Like talking with someone and saying. "Remember the old metal Hormagaunts? Remember how broken Biovores were before the nerf that broke them the other way in 4th?" This gets a blank looked followed by "Dude I was like 8 back then." (Where is my cane someone is getting a skull fracture...) ;)

505
24-08-2009, 16:17
I wouldnt mind to much since 3 or 4 months after the book most of the bandwagoneers will have the nid on ebay for a lot cheaper :D

Ravenous
24-08-2009, 16:18
Admitedly since guard came out Ive been tempted to put the old Commissars hat back on but Im hesitent on doing guard since they went from the being rarely seen (other then the old nutters) to every other army at my stores and clubs.

There are the guys that live and breathe their army of choice (like me with Eldar) and then there are just the people that change it up for fun or to breathe new life into their hobby for awhile.

SPYDER68
24-08-2009, 16:23
I started my guard army 6 months before i knew there was even a new codex.. and had 1500 pts painted before i knew of the codex..

Then all of a suddon.. it went from im only guard player.. to everyone playing them..

Yea.. its lame.. Now long time guard players.. are just another guard player.. just like another marine player, nothing special about the army at all.

So, ive switched to tau and shelved my guard till the next new codex rush.

rb.uhs
24-08-2009, 16:29
I'm starting to box up my Space Wolves, so to speak.

The only time I ever jumped on the bandwagon was Wood Elves back when they got a revamp.

The Custodian
24-08-2009, 17:10
I felt like I jumped the bandwaggon when I started my VC army.. It was my first fantasy army and I chose them because I like Grimdark vampires and undead(not evil sissy twilight ones... HISSS).Anyway about a month after I started them I learned that apparently im now playing the cheesy army... Great... Then again I play with whats cool, as such I use a Lord on a dragon... Hasnt won me many games but its more fun.

Im ecited about nids since I already have an army of them... I know they will be making a reappearance at the store bu they always were present to begin with.

When gaurd came out I was expecting a massive reappearance of guard but it didnt happen... Our SM heavy shop stayed SM heavy.

Now im considering starting Deamons in fantasy, I know people will hate me but it seems that army fits my needs... IM planning on something similar to the Cult of FIre army that was featured on BOLS before (cept no lighting, I dont think i have the skills for that) but will feature all the elements not just fire.

The_Warsmith
24-08-2009, 17:26
i know how you feel custodian, i started playing 40k just before 3.5 codex chaos was released, i chose iron warriors "a legion of marines who specialise in siege warfare and have access to artillery? yes please!" :(

Bassik
24-08-2009, 17:33
There is a bandwagon? Why was I not informed? And can I still get on it?

In all seriousness, I know the feeling and syphatize with you.
My guardsmen where the underdogs, now everyone plays them. Soon, only true guardsmen will remain, while the rest has ran after the bandwagon.
The Emperor Provides.

Frostmane
24-08-2009, 18:26
I love band-wagoners! They rock my socks. Though I do feel like yelling "Damn kids get of my Wolves!" I simply remind myself that 6 months later there will be a lot of wolves stuff on ebay. Ah ebay.

ReveredChaplainDrake
24-08-2009, 18:31
The Tyranid codex release is going to be a bit weird. Since Tyranids are highly mutable yet paradoxically boast the fewest good builds of any army (you have Nidzilla and... variants thereof), every Tyranid player has three options of recourse: play Nidzilla, enjoy losing, or don't play Tyranids at all. Since most players are either too poor to afford Nidzilla, or who are so familiar with GW that they know Nidzilla is gonna' get nerfed next edition, the upcoming Tyranid bandwagon is going to be pretty large, even compared to other codex bandwagons. When the 5th ed Tyranid Codex unscrews things like overpriced units, lack of ranged anti-tank, and biomorphs that physically don't work anymore, you're going to get a lot of Tyranid players returning to a codex that hopefully does the race justice. (If not, most of us also have Space Hulk pre-ordered anyway.)

Right now, my Gaunt-heavy Tyranid army is in virtual exile, awaiting the new codex in January. I also lost my last Codex, but good riddance, we're getting a new one! In the meantime I've been playing and painting my Templars, who have gotten pretty brutal this edition. A bit dated, admittedly, but at least they still work. (And it's nice to play an army where GW actually endorses your victories.)

Preparing to repaint Hormagaunts in 3... 2... 1...

Necronlord3
24-08-2009, 18:38
I've been thinking the same thing about my Necrons. I can't wait for the new Codex but I really don't want to see a bunch of players using 'crons because they are the flavor of the month.

HerrDusty
24-08-2009, 18:42
I started my guard army 6 months before i knew there was even a new codex.. and had 1500 pts painted before i knew of the codex..

Then all of a suddon.. it went from im only guard player.. to everyone playing them..

Yea.. its lame.. Now long time guard players.. are just another guard player.. just like another marine player, nothing special about the army at all.

So, ive switched to tau and shelved my guard till the next new codex rush.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but.... you put your guard away because you don't feel special playing them anymore? Why should the fact that other people choose to play an army you've been playing since before the new codex make any difference to why you play? That just sounds like you want to be the only person in your area who plays guard, so you can feel different and special.

I started collecting guard about 9 months before their new codex came out, and I still collect them now after the codex came out (even more so now, I'll say, the new codex spurred me into expanding my army from the 1500 point force it was to the 3000+ point force it is now), and whether or not people around me are "jumping on the bandwagon" so to speak, makes no difference to me, I play Guard because I like the army, I like their fluff, and I love the models, I don't care how many other people collect them, or whether I'm seen to be "jumping on the bandwagon" or not, I don't care whether I'm special or different or not.

It seems like a bit of an elitist attitude to take, complaining about newcomers to "your" army, I personally will welcome new guard players , it's nice to be able to discuss my army with other players, and trade tips and advice on playing them.

Avarice711
24-08-2009, 18:45
I know how you guys feel i've never been one to pick up an army just cause it's over powered, hell in my triumpith return to 5th i picked necrons just cause i love there models. now my next army is still in the air but it will probably be the first army i ever played, my beloved dark angels way back in 2nd edition.

I was talkign to a friend today how I hope when crons get a new dex i don't see a billion cron players.

Sircyn
24-08-2009, 18:49
I don't mind the band wagon too much, even if it means my long standing army is temporarily lost in the sea of other armies. I especially liked the IG and Orks releases and I look forwards to the Tyranid release, it means for about three months I get to play armies that aren't MeQ's ;)

My nids are shelved atm and are waiting to come out of retirement, I have so many 40k armies now that every other release is relevant to me and I can get an old army out and refresh it and get some more use out of it. I never sell on my armies, I keep them and they evolve as they rules change. Each revision the lists change just enough for me to get a few new toys and to touch up the painting.

All this is excepting my Guard army, which seems to just grow and grow and grow with no heed to release schedules or my banks threatening letters. It's always the way with first loves though!


I play Guard because I like the army, I like their fluff, and I love the models, I don't care how many other people collect them, or whether I'm seen to be "jumping on the bandwagon" or not, I don't care whether I'm special or different or not.


Seconded! It does however make me want to personalise my army a little to make it stand out so I can show off. Nearly all of my armies have some FW stuff and plenty of conversions. My nids don't but they stand out from other nid players in my area because they are painted :D

Imperius
24-08-2009, 18:50
Im new to the game but I remember it now:

I walk into the store for the very first time, and I see a MASSED infantry Imperial Guard army, this was January of this year. I came everyday for a week and that was the only army of I.G. I saw in that span.

It wasn't even all painted but I was enthralled by the concept of primitive-futuristic WWII tactics, so I buy the battleforce. I buy a leman russ, and about a 100 infantry. Slowly I collect and collect until NEW IMPERIAL GUARD UPDATE COMING OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Woohooo! New models and epicness! But now instead of my favourite army because you don't see it that often, I don't like it so much because every player has Guard.
_________
I do want to use my army with an air of uniqueness, but now its all 'been there, done that' with everyone.

Important
24-08-2009, 18:59
I'm one of those that always buy the new shiny codex start planning an army. Looks thro my budget and really want to buy those new awesome modells! But I never do it since I play a game with my precius chaos marines and I realise I have all want already!

Crovax20
24-08-2009, 19:04
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but.... you put your guard away because you don't feel special playing them anymore? Why should the fact that other people choose to play an army you've been playing since before the new codex make any difference to why you play? That just sounds like you want to be the only person in your area who plays guard, so you can feel different and special.

I started collecting guard about 9 months before their new codex came out, and I still collect them now after the codex came out (even more so now, I'll say, the new codex spurred me into expanding my army from the 1500 point force it was to the 3000+ point force it is now), and whether or not people around me are "jumping on the bandwagon" so to speak, makes no difference to me, I play Guard because I like the army, I like their fluff, and I love the models, I don't care how many other people collect them, or whether I'm seen to be "jumping on the bandwagon" or not, I don't care whether I'm special or different or not.

It seems like a bit of an elitist attitude to take, complaining about newcomers to "your" army, I personally will welcome new guard players , it's nice to be able to discuss my army with other players, and trade tips and advice on playing them.

Well some people like being one of the few who play an army. The advantage is that you dont have to play against another player with the same army. Somehow games against the same army feel a bit stale for me.

I specifically took Necrons and Empire as my armies because they are not played much in my area. That way I can be sure that most of the time I will be playing against a totally different army. Although since I switched gaming clubs to a more local one recently, my Necrons are not so special anymore and i sort of find myself playing my fantasy Empire a lot!

Ozendorph
24-08-2009, 19:10
A world where every gamer buys and plays a new army with every codex release is a world I would be happy to live in. GW would keep growing and supporting armies, and finding a game against any army would be a breeze :)

primarch16
24-08-2009, 19:28
I can see why people do it to be fair. At least then you know the army you have chosen wont be redone for a fair while, so you wont have to buy up to date models or a new codex.

Cane
24-08-2009, 19:35
Eh this thread deals with a larger psychological topic imo. For some reason, a lot of people have the need to be 'different' or 'unique' and feel somewhat threatened or feel lesser when something/someone infringes such qualities.

Its pretty childish but I can understand the sentiment; if everyone started driving around in Ferrari's and Porsches those owners would likely feel less special. Ditto with sports teams, players like Lebron James will get fans who didn't care about the team he's on until...he was on it.

But like Ozendorph said, I've really got no problem with it and I'm a Guard player from third edition. The more the better! Not to mention that new codices usually provide an incredible amount of variation in possible army lists.

SPYDER68
24-08-2009, 19:41
Eh this thread deals with a larger psychological topic imo. For some reason, a lot of people have the need to be 'different' or 'unique' and feel somewhat threatened or feel lesser when something/someone infringes such qualities.

Its pretty childish but I can understand the sentiment; if everyone started driving around in Ferrari's and Porsches those owners would likely feel less special. Ditto with sports teams, players like Lebron James will get fans who didn't care about the team he's on until...he was on it.

But like Ozendorph said, I've really got no problem with it and I'm a Guard player from third edition. The more the better! Not to mention that new codices usually provide an incredible amount of variation in possible army lists.

I dont think many care if others play the same army.. It just gets old when there is so many of them.. then over half your games are vs the same army.

If they thought the army was neat.. they would have already considered it, but buying it just because they got stronger rules is bleh.
If they had already wanted the army and just got to the point to start it, then no biggie.. its the buying now because its stronger army factor is what alot dont like.

DEADMARSH
24-08-2009, 20:03
I love Warseer.

1. My codex is brand new and there are too many noobs playing it.
2. My codex is not brand new and I need a new one!

Covers 90% of the bitching on here.

Avarice711
24-08-2009, 20:15
I love Warseer.

1. My codex is brand new and there are too many noobs playing it.
2. My codex is not brand new and I need a new one!

Covers 90% of the bitching on here.

Dude omg i'm rolling, seriously, you are my new hero.

MarshalFaust
24-08-2009, 20:19
I always say this to myself when i start to feel the same way: I am not a unique snowflake and owning pieces of plastic or metal before someone else does not make me special.

A few weeks before the new guard codex came out a friend of mine was getting out of the hobby to join the military and asked me if i wanted to buy his entire guard collection for $150, turns out he had $1000 dollars worth of unpainted cadians and tanks it was way too good of a deal to pass up and so guard bandwagoning i did.

SPYDER68
24-08-2009, 20:38
I always say this to myself when i start to feel the same way: I am not a unique snowflake and owning pieces of plastic or metal before someone else does not make me special.

A few weeks before the new guard codex came out a friend of mine was getting out of the hobby to join the military and asked me if i wanted to buy his entire guard collection for $150, turns out he had $1000 dollars worth of unpainted cadians and tanks it was way too good of a deal to pass up and so guard bandwagoning i did.

Thats not bandwagoning :P thats getting a very good deal!

Vepr
24-08-2009, 20:50
I love Warseer.

1. My codex is brand new and there are too many noobs playing it.
2. My codex is not brand new and I need a new one!

Covers 90% of the bitching on here.

True. :D

I don't care about the noobs so much as the claims that I am part of the bandwagon. Almost enough to make me drag out the old, Patriarch, screamer killers and stealer hybrids. Just because I keep my army up to date does not mean I have not been playing them since the mid 90's... feeling old and creaky. :cries:

I probably should not complain too much I did take a sizable break during 4th edition but still avoided the bandwagon by 2 years. :D

Grand Master Raziel
24-08-2009, 21:16
Yeah, I want to play Inquisition, but prolly won't collecting until the next dex.

You should probably go ahead and start collecting if you're looking at Malleus or Hereticus-flavored Inquisition. I seriously doubt any updates are planned for either Codex: Daemonhunters or Codex: Witch Hunters anytime soon.

HerrDusty
24-08-2009, 21:48
I love Warseer.

1. My codex is brand new and there are too many noobs playing it.
2. My codex is not brand new and I need a new one!

Covers 90% of the bitching on here.

Quoted for truth.

Although some of the bitching I hear about the current Space Wolves codex is that while it's old, it's overpowered still for various reasons. I also collect Space Wolves alongside my guard, and while the old codex (well, its more ofa 30 page leaflet than a codex, really...) is still pretty good due to the propping up the Space Marine codex has been giving it, I look forward to the new one, for sure.

Sekhmet
24-08-2009, 21:59
I love Warseer.

1. My codex is brand new and there are too many noobs playing it.
2. My codex is not brand new and I need a new one!

Covers 90% of the bitching on here.

true.dat

I don't understand why people care if too many people play their army. Do you really think you're a beautiful and unique snowflake?

sydbridges
24-08-2009, 21:59
If your biggest concern with your army is that a new codex will bring in new players, your army hasn't gone long enough between updates yet.

Hadafix
24-08-2009, 22:02
I just look at it as an opportunity to teach the noobs a thing about tactics. Not been playing BT for long, but I can make them work against almost any army that uses a gun line as thats the type of army I started with, and can even teach them how to use them better *Move that bloody tank damn it, and have your heavies pointing towards the gaps in cover*
Now I know that a new BT release will alter it, but unless they neuter it like they did some other codices, that tactics should remain similar *Big units and charge that small arms fire!* will be nice to be a bit more of a teacher than an oddity and newish (loved the army for ages but couldnt bring my self at the time to play loyalist) to the army I favour.

starlight
24-08-2009, 22:07
Given that I have 3,000pts of some version of basically every 40K army...


...get off my lawn you meddling kids!!!


:p



Seriously though, the more the merrier. :) The more sales GW sees of a given army, the more support that army will get in the future...and the more cheap stuff shows up six months later... :D Sounds like a win-win situation for me... :D

DrDoom
24-08-2009, 22:40
I'm good with it. When the 3.5 CSM dex showed up there were kids everywhere with new CSM armies, mostly primed black. Ever since the 4th edition dex came out I've been picking up models like mad, and aside from giving the occassional Basilisk to my Guard friend its all good stuff. I expect the next CSM dex will be closer to the 3.5 dex and so people will buy models they can sell to me cheap a few years down the line.

Captain Micha
24-08-2009, 22:53
It must be old age doing it to me (grumpy old man syndrome) but I get a little agitated when a new codex comes out for my main army (nids) and a wave of people jump on board the new codex bandwagon. Now I really don't have a good reason for it other than the feeling that I was here first (damn kids stay off my lawn with a wave of the cane).

It happened to me in 3rd and 4th and now it is happening again. Nids have always been my first love in 40K and I get a little annoyed at the bandwagon jumpers mainly because for the period of time it takes for another dex to come out you get comments like "You are only playing nids because they are on top now..." etc. Now I know some of you have nid armies shelved waiting on a new dex (damn kids can't stay focused). ;)

Time for a nap. :p

You forgot to hold a rifle to our faces and say "Get off my lawn" Clint Eastwood style.

Of course you are going to get new players picking up an army when a new codex comes out.

Would you rather the player base just shrink as your Dex stagnates? *cough Dark Eldar cough, Necrons Cough*

I'd rather the hobby grow myself.

Plus I really seriously doubt anyone drops 300+ dollars just to "Win at 40k" every time a new codex comes out. Generally speaking someone already wants to play said army, they are just waiting for the update.

Ekranoplan
24-08-2009, 22:53
When the new IG codex came out I thought about all the people that would be buying IG armies, and how that would make me and my IG army less special and unique. Then I realized moments later that I have been known as one of the few IG players in the area for the past few years, and I have a fully painted IG army with all the fixings, something which few people ever achieve. I dont think I really need to be worried about being seen as the same as everyone else. (of course thats not something you should be worried about in the first place. Its a problem that goes away if you just dont think about it or acknowledge it.)

isaac
24-08-2009, 22:54
I was interested in starting IG, but why should I start buying models till the new codex came out? I don't want to base an army around the previous codex, when a new one is around the door. So when a new codex is around the door, the would-be adopters hold off till it comes out, creating a surge in new players in addition to the other people who jump on the bandwagon. The problem is, codex creep makes it look like people are picking it up only because it is the newest and best thing.

PhalanxLord
24-08-2009, 23:03
I figure that most people don't like bandwagon jumpers because they're only there because the army is good. Some of them don't care about the background, the models, or anything because all they want is to win. Now if the person started the army because they actually like it then thats another thing all together. People who already have the army just don't like to be associated with those that only collect an army because its the most powerful. The logic to it is pretty obvious. Would you want to be associated with people who only like to play a certain army because its overpowered and new while it being overpowered and new is irrelevant to you? I doubt it considering that most people seem to think of people who play an army because its good are the scum of the Earth (my person opinion is to each their own-> I don't care why you play as long as you play and I can try to beat you with my own army).

Personally I welcome more SW players and more nids players. I love both of those armies and have for a long time (though I only really started SW in November because AOBR was such a good deal-> I was planning on waiting otherwise though I already owned the codex). More SW players means that I can face them a lot more, learn new strategies, and take more pride in being part of a larger group. Same with nids. There's a bit of pride you can take in knowing that there's a lot of people who agree with your army choice and knowing that you have a good army.

Sekhmet
24-08-2009, 23:06
I figure that most people don't like bandwagon jumpers because they're only there because the army is good. Some of them don't care about the background, the models, or anything because all they want is to win. Now if the person started the army because they actually like it then thats another thing all together. People who already have the army just don't like to be associated with those that only collect an army because its the most powerful. The logic to it is pretty obvious. Would you want to be associated with people who only like to play a certain army because its overpowered and new while it being overpowered and new is irrelevant to you? I doubt it considering that most people seem to think of people who play an army because its good are the scum of the Earth (my person opinion is to each their own-> I don't care why you play as long as you play and I can try to beat you with my own army).


Do you attach a particular stigma to people who want to win legitimately (ie without cheating)?

I don't.

Vepr
24-08-2009, 23:18
Good lord everyone takes themselves way to seriously around here. I was trying to have fun with this post. :wtf: :D

Mitthrawdo
25-08-2009, 00:26
Good lord everyone takes themselves way to seriously around here. I was trying to have fun with this post. :wtf: :D

The internet is serious business.

starlight
25-08-2009, 00:47
'nuff said. :eyebrows:












:p

Necronlord3
25-08-2009, 01:20
Do you attach a particular stigma to people who want to win legitimately (ie without cheating)?

I don't.

I don't think he is talking about winning or losing. I think he is referring to the players who play 40k purely for the game. Now yes I understand that it is a game and I would assume we all play it because we like the 'game'. But games like Warhammer, 40k, VOR, etc... are about the hobby as a whole, not just the game. The most enjoyment is going to come out of the fluff of your army, the modeling, painting converting, and the game. The people the OP began in reference to, are those who play an army because it can be built in an abusive way that gives the player an advantage over other armies in the game. The Newness of an army can be an advantage in and of itself because opponents will have little familiarity with the army and you can tactically surprise them with it. Now if GW would just do a better job of updating Codexes relatively faster than they have done in the past, this would do a good job of eliminating the 'New Army' cheese that is often seen at gaming tables and tournaments.

Sekhmet
25-08-2009, 01:46
I don't think he is talking about winning or losing. I think he is referring to the players who play 40k purely for the game. Now yes I understand that it is a game and I would assume we all play it because we like the 'game'. But games like Warhammer, 40k, VOR, etc... are about the hobby as a whole, not just the game. The most enjoyment is going to come out of the fluff of your army, the modeling, painting converting, and the game. The people the OP began in reference to, are those who play an army because it can be built in an abusive way that gives the player an advantage over other armies in the game. The Newness of an army can be an advantage in and of itself because opponents will have little familiarity with the army and you can tactically surprise them with it. Now if GW would just do a better job of updating Codexes relatively faster than they have done in the past, this would do a good job of eliminating the 'New Army' cheese that is often seen at gaming tables and tournaments.

I disagree, games like 40k are not about the hobby as a whole, they're what you make of it. 40k offers the opportunity to take your game and make it into a painting/converting competition, a collection, as avatars of the fluff, or any combination thereof, but it does not require it.

I personally enjoy the fluff, the game, and converting, but I don't push my views on anyone else. If they spend money and buy models, I don't care if they're all just sprayed black or even have plastic & pewter showing, as long as their modeling/painting doesn't get in the way of the game, they can do whatever they want, it's their money. If they just spent $500-$1000 on a brand new army, who am I to get annoyed at their financial choices? Maybe I'll get jealous that I don't have that much disposable income to make a new army every time a new codex comes out, but that would be it. Not everyone chooses an army because of emotional attachment to the fluff.

This is probably my biggest pet peeve on 40k, people who tell me how I should enjoy my hobby. If your ambition is to create a perfectly fluffy Ultramarines 1st company to golden daemon standards, all the more power to you, but don't come whining when you get beat down in a friendly game because my army isn't up to your painting, fluff, and/or "fair" standards. As far as I'm concerned, if it's legal in the codex without much RAW abuse, you have no real margin to complain.

If people play my army because they think they're OP, that's fine. You won't see me making a thread whining about the zerg rush of necron newbs in a year. You will, however, probably see me making threads about army composition theory, fluff and tactics, to help out these newbs and give them reason to stay with the army.

tl;dr - do whatever you want, but don't tell me (or anyone else) how I should enjoy my money and time.

Captain Micha
25-08-2009, 02:04
Sekhmet: the ultimate in Undead Robot Posters. Very nicely stated.

Nezmith
25-08-2009, 02:43
I'd say the opposite.

Being the only Necron player in my area, all 25 40K players I know share amongst each other how to defeat my lists and give each other hints on how to take extreme advantage of my weaknesses.

The end result is, everyone knows how to beat Necrons, because I'm the only example of Necrons in the group, and no matter how odd I build my list to surprise someone, they've already heard all my bags of tricks, and know beforehand what I'm going to do.

When I go to fight one of the four Imperial Guard players, they all have a different style and taste. I can't possibly "know" their army as well as they know mine.

starlight
25-08-2009, 02:49
Time to quietly start building a SoB army on the side... :angel:

MIGHTYPanhead
25-08-2009, 03:09
It must be old age doing it to me (grumpy old man syndrome) but I get a little agitated when a new codex comes out for my main army (nids) and a wave of people jump on board the new codex bandwagon. Now I really don't have a good reason for it other than the feeling that I was here first (damn kids stay off my lawn with a wave of the cane).

Time for a nap. :p

Grumpy old man syndrome is the best syndrome! And sharing all the obscure knowledge/models you've collected over the years it a very satisfying experience!

I try my best to stick as many old models in my armies to reinforce the fact that "Yeh darn kids, I've been playin the Warhams since before yeh wus born' "

I've been slowly painting and collecting an all metal (classic) cadian IG army, with sisters, grey knights, arbites, the works :D. People give me funny looks and ask me what the models are. And when the new space hulk set comes out, I'll be playing with the old one's models :p

rb.uhs
25-08-2009, 03:30
If you don't want to play an army that will EVER be part of a bandwagon, play Death Korps of Krieg. Yes, it's Imperial Guard, but at least in Australia, barely anyone has any models, let alone an entire army of them.

Askil the Undecided
25-08-2009, 03:53
Look at it this way if it wasn't for shallower fad buyers you'd never find a game against more armies than you have opponents or cheap models on Ebay, so grow up and quit whining.

I'm fine with almost anyone as long as they are willing to field an army at other end of the table and play a game that I can enjoy, when and why they may have got their army is irrelevant to me.

The initial influx of interest in an army after a new codex is the only bloody thing that makes GW keep going, why do you think they keep shiny new stuff if not to attract new players?

If you seriously feel more people collecting the same little plastic, resin and metal creatures has belittled you in some way maybe you should use your money to get therapy to repair your fragile ego rather than play warhammer as you're probably a little too sensitive for simulated violence.

sic
25-08-2009, 03:55
I think its unavoidable. A new codex with new models generates lots of interest among players and collectors alike especially if the army you currently play hasnt had some love in a while. I dont mind people jumping on the bandwagon when a new dex comes out, the more interest in new stuff the better, it keeps the codex ball rolling.

Ive been playing Black Templars and Nids for a long time now (nids since 2nd ed and BT since the start of 3rd so pre codex) and both those armies have been hated by a lot of people as they were seen as top tier for a long time. Luckily i dont really care what people on the internet think, bring on the new Nid dex i say! Mayeb we'll get plastic gargoyles.....

Vepr
25-08-2009, 05:05
Look at it this way if it wasn't for shallower fad buyers you'd never find a game against more armies than you have opponents or cheap models on Ebay, so grow up and quit whining.

I'm fine with almost anyone as long as they are willing to field an army at other end of the table and play a game that I can enjoy, when and why they may have got their army is irrelevant to me.

The initial influx of interest in an army after a new codex is the only bloody thing that makes GW keep going, why do you think they keep shiny new stuff if not to attract new players?

If you seriously feel more people collecting the same little plastic, resin and metal creatures has belittled you in some way maybe you should use your money to get therapy to repair your fragile ego rather than play warhammer as you're probably a little too sensitive for simulated violence.

:cries:

You must be fun at parties. :p Why is everyone so uptight and serious around here? Take it easy, drink some decaff, lighten up, kick back and put your feet up, find an entomologist to classify the bug up your butt. :evilgrin:

Imperialis_Dominatus
25-08-2009, 05:37
Do you really think you're a beautiful and unique snowflake?

Yes.

But I don't think I'm a special snowflake because of my army, I'll admit.


If you don't want to play an army that will EVER be part of a bandwagon, play Death Korps of Krieg. Yes, it's Imperial Guard, but at least in Australia, barely anyone has any models, let alone an entire army of them.

That's because they're Forge World models. No one can afford them.

PhalanxLord
25-08-2009, 06:55
Do you attach a particular stigma to people who want to win legitimately (ie without cheating)?

I don't.

Perhaps I wasn't making much sense (the whole stigma thing is confusing me because I don't think I attach any sort of negative stigma to anyone except for cheaters and people who try to be overly cheap and make really really crappy looking models out of Styrofoam or use a similar model as something else without mentioning it, like using a devilfish as a hammerhead). My personal opinion is that I don't care what your reasoning for collecting an army is and I don't care if you abuse the hell out of the rules for your army because I enjoy the challenge. That's your choice. I just want to play the game. Modeling is fine and I don't really like painting but I love playing the game and having fun. I don't play abusive lists (because they tend to be boring) and I don't rules lawyer but I'm perfectly fine playing against those who do (and more than willing to roll off against a rules lawyer if there's a rules disagreement that we can't get solved or a charge was off by some small margin). I don't condone cheating and I have yet to play against someone who was actively cheating. I was more of voicing how it seems other people see those that just jump on the bandwagon because an army is new and/or overpowered.


I don't think he is talking about winning or losing. I think he is referring to the players who play 40k purely for the game. Now yes I understand that it is a game and I would assume we all play it because we like the 'game'. But games like Warhammer, 40k, VOR, etc... are about the hobby as a whole, not just the game. The most enjoyment is going to come out of the fluff of your army, the modeling, painting converting, and the game. The people the OP began in reference to, are those who play an army because it can be built in an abusive way that gives the player an advantage over other armies in the game. The Newness of an army can be an advantage in and of itself because opponents will have little familiarity with the army and you can tactically surprise them with it. Now if GW would just do a better job of updating Codexes relatively faster than they have done in the past, this would do a good job of eliminating the 'New Army' cheese that is often seen at gaming tables and tournaments.

I was going to say a whole bunch of things about this but Sekhmet pretty much summed things up better than I could.

On a more personal note, my enjoyment meter goes fluff>game>list making>modeling>(A(G64,G64)*>)>painting

My army shall be eternally black. :D


I disagree, games like 40k are not about the hobby as a whole, they're what you make of it. 40k offers the opportunity to take your game and make it into a painting/converting competition, a collection, as avatars of the fluff, or any combination thereof, but it does not require it.
.
.
.
.
tl;dr - do whatever you want, but don't tell me (or anyone else) how I should enjoy my money and time.

/thread

Necronlord3
25-08-2009, 07:23
I disagree, games like 40k are not about the hobby as a whole, they're what you make of it...<entire post>

I couldn't disagree with you more. The hobby is a whole pie, (with few exceptions)not just one piece of it. Now you can argue that some will enjoy one piece of the pie more than others, and that I would agree with. But I certainly put time and effort into my army and expect at least some effort by my opponents. I'm not expecting everyone to bring an army that is up to my standards of painting and converting, but I do expect there to be somewhat of an effort put into the army. If the models were just released last week or even last month(or recently purchased), I would hardly expect them to be fully assembled and painted. Now these are the same standards GW accepts and recognizes for its sanctioned events, and stores. Mini wargames are not just about your enjoyment of the hobby it is also about your opponents, your gaming groups, and the community as a whole's enjoyment of the hobby.

the1stpip
25-08-2009, 08:30
It varies.

I have recently started Salamandrs, so I am one of these Bandwagoners. I wanted a new SM army, and chose them because of Vulkan. But so what, I like the army, and I am trying to find any scraps of information about them (which is not a lot).

On the other hand, I will be very happy, but also very upset, when they finally update my favourite army, Dark Eldar, as there will be a lot of 'jumpers, while I have had my army for a long time.

Kriegfreak
25-08-2009, 08:35
For some people though, they are waiting for the new codex before they collect the army for the first (or second, or third...) time, like Necrons, I won't be doing my force until the new codex is out, then I will likely be looked at as a bandwagoner.

This is exactly what I did with my guard, I had a decent amount of models, though I had played Space Marines/Chaos Space Marines pretty hardcore prior. I'm sure there are people who are Codex band-wagoners, but most of those people are power-gamers and miss the best parts of the hobby anyways. In the case of Dark Eldar with such old and out-dated models, I wouldn't blame anyone for holding off until the new book is out. With Nids though why wait, there current line and codex are already plenty awesome, just getting more so when its updated I'm sure.

The Marshel
25-08-2009, 08:40
i havn't been in 40K that long, but the bandwagoning for impguard was very noticable. i dont really mind much though, i dont hav any issues with people who jump on bandwagons, its the ones that jump off when things dont look as good or when a better bandwagon pulls up that annoys me.

think of it as being like football, u get bandwagoners who will start following a team thats sudenly winning akot and about to win the competition, they the start to fal off, play poorly. Some Bandwagoners will stay, others will leave. the former are fine, the latter are annoying

slayerofmen
25-08-2009, 09:03
the main issue for me in bandwagon jumping is that.

1) the army will be OP but i didnt know that when i bought the book (aka daemons WFB)
or
2) so many people will be playing them that the diversity/ little cool things in the armies isn't shown because they end up fighting versions of themselves.

3) or you get called a bandwagon jumper even though you've had the army for two editions

Souleater
25-08-2009, 09:14
I think there might be some rather annoyed Dark Eldar players :D

I don't particularly mind other people playing 'my army'. It is the lack of variety that bandwagoneering can cause that irritates me. I dont' think I've played against anything but Guard and Orks for several months.

Necronlord3
25-08-2009, 09:23
I think one major annoying part in general is those who choose to play Horde armies but refuse to paint them. IMO, having to paint 100+ models is the price you pay when you choose to play the horde. Don't feel like painting a ton of models? Play a MEQ army.

Marrak
25-08-2009, 09:42
Band wagon isn't too bad in the long run, TBH. It gets some fresh blood in the field, and helps keep the army from stagnating (that is, so long as they quickly learn that the "unbeatable" list is far from it), and it also widens the hobby aspect, which isn't a bad thing.

Now it does come with some negatives and FOTM issues, as well as wrong ideas regarding the codex strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately it ends up in a nicely balanced area, so long as the codex is written properly.

Souleater
25-08-2009, 11:11
Also, the bandwagon is great for people who stick with their army.

Ebay is our friend.

djinn8
25-08-2009, 11:54
Bandwagons are OK. You can't get a more balenced game then one between two armies from the same internaly balanced codex.

TheEndIsHere
25-08-2009, 14:47
We have 3 or 4 necron players at our GW, I don't want everyone to become like us-.-

D-End

twj
25-08-2009, 19:26
I had a mechanised IG in 4th edition (didn't win much...) and when the new codex came out, the majority of IG armies I saw were mechanised. The shame!!

Though, new rules do freshen things up...

Sekhmet
25-08-2009, 20:14
I couldn't disagree with you more. The hobby is a whole pie, (with few exceptions)not just one piece of it. Now you can argue that some will enjoy one piece of the pie more than others, and that I would agree with. But I certainly put time and effort into my army and expect at least some effort by my opponents. I'm not expecting everyone to bring an army that is up to my standards of painting and converting, but I do expect there to be somewhat of an effort put into the army. If the models were just released last week or even last month(or recently purchased), I would hardly expect them to be fully assembled and painted. Now these are the same standards GW accepts and recognizes for its sanctioned events, and stores. Mini wargames are not just about your enjoyment of the hobby it is also about your opponents, your gaming groups, and the community as a whole's enjoyment of the hobby.

So by not painting their army, someone else kills the hobby for you? You can't simply enjoy your own army, but you have to see a well-painted, themed army sitting across the table from you?

A lot of people where I play have full time jobs and families they have to attend to. What little truly free time they get they try to spend on 40k... and that means maybe painting one model a week, if that, and trying to get in games whenever they can. As much as I'd like to, you cannot make this hobby based on tournaments. Yes, there is a tournament standard, but if we all played 40k based on GW's GTs, there'd be no Apocalypse, no Planetfall, no Cityfight/CoD, no Kill Teams, or really much of anything interesting. Oh, and GW stores don't care what your armies look like, as long as they're mostly citadel parts and you're not playing a non-GW game.They don't care if your army is painted or arm-less, they use open tables.

But I just can't get over the fact that you feel like your hobby is being ruined by people who don't paint their models. If anything, it's their full enjoyment that isn't being realized, but you shouldn't let that get you down.

Anyway, you're entitled to your own opinion about anything, but I still can't accept it as logical or sportsmanlike.


I think one major annoying part in general is those who choose to play Horde armies but refuse to paint them. IMO, having to paint 100+ models is the price you pay when you choose to play the horde. Don't feel like painting a ton of models? Play a MEQ army.

Does that mean that people who play highly elite armies like nidzilla or deathwing are required by you to be amazingly high quality?

Necromancer2
25-08-2009, 20:19
Space Pups are all going to cry! lol :)

Necronlord3
25-08-2009, 20:23
Does that mean that people who play highly elite armies like nidzilla or deathwing are required by you to be amazingly high quality?

Actually the opposing argument to my statement would be "Is it okay for an elite army to be not painted at all?" And my answer would be that I would have more respect for a player playing an elite army who feels he/she can't paint, than the same person choosing to play a horde army. IMO, there is no excuse for anyone's army in a miniatures game to go entirely unpainted. 3 colors is the minimum, if you can't put in that much effort then perhaps Yugioh, Pokemon, or Magic would be more to your liking.

I'll pose a question to you; Should someone be allowed to play baseball if they don't like to run? Or participate in competitive swimming if they don't like water? If you don't like painting minis, don't play a miniatures wargame, or at the very least play a prepainted game instead. 40k is a entire hobby. Collecting, converting, painting, army building, actual game, fluff. These are all essential elements of the hobby.


So by not painting their army, someone else kills the hobby for you? You can't simply enjoy your own army, but you have to see a well-painted, themed army sitting across the table from you?
Exactly and you'll find a recent pole support this general consensus well over 2:1. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214900

Crovax20
25-08-2009, 21:59
Actually the opposing argument to my statement would be "Is it okay for an elite army to be not painted at all?" And my answer would be that I would have more respect for a player playing an elite army who feels he/she can't paint, than the same person choosing to play a horde army. IMO, there is no excuse for anyone's army in a miniatures game to go entirely unpainted. 3 colors is the minimum, if you can't put in that much effort then perhaps Yugioh, Pokemon, or Magic would be more to your liking.

I'll pose a question to you; Should someone be allowed to play baseball if they don't like to run? Or participate in competitive swimming if they don't like water? If you don't like painting minis, don't play a miniatures wargame, or at the very least play a prepainted game instead. 40k is a entire hobby. Collecting, converting, painting, army building, actual game, fluff. These are all essential elements of the hobby.

Exactly and you'll find a recent pole support this general consensus well over 2:1. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214900

Hmm, my necrons got metal and red, oh and a dab of green! I am a goodboy

http://www.files-up.de/2009/galerie/upload/01/20090613.102059.jpg

Suppose this is good enuff? Okay I admit, I use 3 colors, but at least I use multiple shades of those colors :evilgrin:

Although I play an elite army, so guess I didn't have to paint them at all.
But of course someone who turns up with the same unpainted army over and over again for months with not a single mini painted, should go and find someone to paint them. Suppose easiest solution is not to play against them.

Necronlord3
25-08-2009, 23:50
If you read the entire post I don't advocate for an unpainted army at all.

Getifa Ubazza
26-08-2009, 00:03
It happened to me in 3rd and 4th and now it is happening again. Nids have always been my first love in 40K and I get a little annoyed at the bandwagon jumpers mainly because for the period of time it takes for another dex to come out you get comments like "You are only playing nids because they are on top now..." etc. Now I know some of you have nid armies shelved waiting on a new dex (damn kids can't stay focused). ;)

Time for a nap. :pI have had 2 Ork armies before this one and got the same crap as you did about just being a bandwagon jumper. But as soon as people see that my army is very fluffy, they soon realise that I'm a proper Ork player.

Actually my Nids were the same. When someone see's 32 Hormagaunts coming at them in one huge brood, they stop laughing very quickly when they realise they are playing a Nid Vet who know's how to get the best out of them. :evilgrin:

Dyrnwyn
26-08-2009, 00:17
Eh, it varies. I picked up Tau shortly after 4th came out, so I started with thier first dex and don't have to worry about the bandwagon thing there.

My All-biker Orks were planned under the old codex, but I stalled the plan for a year until I was sure I'd be able to field it under the new one; no sense buying all those models only to have your army rendered unusable. Then I stalled for another couple months so I could use the new Warbike box rather than convert from SM bikes. So I suppose in the case of my Orks, I would be seen as a bandwagoner.

Or course, I also recently started a Grey Knights army, and let me tell you, it's the cheapest army I've ever built. Aside from the high cost requiring low model count, because Inquisition armies are so out of date, there were as ton of Imperial players in my area who had started them, discovered they weren't that competitive, and wanted to get rid of them. I've picked up something like 8-9 GK Termies and 36-ish GK's for about 120 bucks. Should a new 'Codex Inquisition' come out, I'll be more or less set for an army, and won't have to shell out for full retail. Heck, I think I might just have an Apoc force of GK's from buying other people's unwanted models.

Sekhmet
26-08-2009, 00:37
Actually the opposing argument to my statement would be "Is it okay for an elite army to be not painted at all?" And my answer would be that I would have more respect for a player playing an elite army who feels he/she can't paint, than the same person choosing to play a horde army. IMO, there is no excuse for anyone's army in a miniatures game to go entirely unpainted. 3 colors is the minimum, if you can't put in that much effort then perhaps Yugioh, Pokemon, or Magic would be more to your liking.

I'll pose a question to you; Should someone be allowed to play baseball if they don't like to run? Or participate in competitive swimming if they don't like water? If you don't like painting minis, don't play a miniatures wargame, or at the very least play a prepainted game instead. 40k is a entire hobby. Collecting, converting, painting, army building, actual game, fluff. These are all essential elements of the hobby.

Part of playing baseball requires running, although there are people who do play baseball and don't like running. Should they be allowed to play? Absolutely. You should even encourage them to play. Same with swimming and water. But regardless, they aren't the same thing. To swim, you must be in the water. To play 40k, you don't HAVE to paint, it doesn't change the game play whatsoever.

Now to play competitive 40k, you need a painted army as per the rules. If you don't like painting, you probably shouldn't play in tournaments... you can, but you'll automatically lose the tournament. If you don't like water or running, you won't do well in competitive swimming or baseball. But to say they can't even participate in casual baseball or swimming is morally wrong. It's like saying no to a disabled person.

Yes, I'm equating disabled/handicapped people to people who don't paint their minis in 40k.



Exactly and you'll find a recent pole support this general consensus well over 2:1. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214900
Tyranny of the majority.

Necronlord3
26-08-2009, 02:38
Yes, I'm equating disabled/handicapped people to people who don't paint their minis in 40k.
.
Can't argue with you there.

starlight
26-08-2009, 02:54
40k is a entire hobby. Collecting, converting, painting, army building, actual game, fluff. These are all essential elements of the hobby.

No.

40K is a game. Wargaming is the hobby 40K exists within. Collecting, converting, et al are *elements*...there is absolutely nothing essential about any single aspect of the wargaming hobby.


Yes, I'm equating disabled/handicapped people to people who don't paint their minis in 40k.

If you are then you are misspeaking... There's a huge difference between people who *can't* do a thing because they are unable, and people who *choose not to* do a thing because they don't want to (or like me and painting...suck at it... :p ).

If you come to my house and play I won't mention your unpainted minis, if you come week after week and haven't made any effort, I might make an observation about how busy you must be and offer to have a painting night instead of some gaming. If you show up with a beautifully painted army that makes mine look pants, I'll get my Banhammer and chase you down the stree...erm,:angel: I mean I'll compliment you and enjoy the game...:D:p

Wargaming is about having fun...getting cranky because someone doesn't have the time to paint their models, or thinks that time with their kids ranks higher...? :wtf:

Let's get gaming, time's a wasting. :D

Necronlord3
26-08-2009, 03:15
Well I think a few of you are assuming that I would refuse to play someone with an unpainted army. That is not the case, and I voted for the second choice in that poll. However, if you showed up at my venue week after week without any effort put into painting your army(particularly a cheesy army) I would refuse to play you.

AngryAngel
26-08-2009, 04:04
This view point I've had a time or two before. I really think it just stems from the need and want to feel special. The "I liked it when it was bad, I paid my dues " mindset. We just need to get over it. If you love the army you'll love it for all it has to offer. If you just jump on the bandwagon, people will know.

Like for instance I heard guard were about 4 months out from a new codex. So I picked them up bit by bit keeping my eyes on the codex rumors so I wouldn't pick up discontinued stuff. I had always wanted to do guard the new dex just gave me the perfect reason to do it.

Now, I'm a perfectly happy guard player. I knew why now I wished to play them back when I started 40k. Been crushing foes with unstoppable waves of humanity every since. I tend to not jump on the bandwagon because I love to just build up current armies.

Demkaio
26-08-2009, 04:49
Im not to fused about the whole bandwagon thing, I have been out of play for a couple years now.

Ever since I had Space crusade, I fell in love with the Genestealers, Orks, and Blood angels. Thus I have a Nid, Ork, and Blood Angel army, though of late my Orks have received alot of love with the AoBR and recent ork releases.

Next year I can see my Nids and BA's receiving such love.
Spacehulk is going to aid with that =D

Putty
26-08-2009, 06:07
to be fair to myself, i was eying IG back in 2001 but kinda went "Blargh" when I went through the codex. But I'm a closet treadhead...

the new book gave me a reason to start an IG army (primary cheap chimeras and veterans as troops was the biggest push factor).

i had nids since 2006, i got them as my 2nd army after i sold my 1st (Black Templars). I also started Necrons last year (as a challenge to myself to play a REALLY crappy army) and won't be playing much of them (although its a 5th ed tailored list) till the new book gets out and i'd ascertain if my old army requires no new purchases to play competitively.

If my Necron army require a total overhaul, i'd just sell the entire army off and use the proceeds to buff up my other two armies. :D

Its unlikely my Tyranid army becomes redundant as I pretty much magnetized all my Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes. Actually... I'm thinking of magnetising them Warriors too...

The Clairvoyant
26-08-2009, 13:13
i like the tongue-in-cheek sentiment of the opening post :D

I have a tyranid army that may get pulled out of its boxes when the new book comes out. Seeing as it has been boxed for the past 13 years, i look forward to some cane-pointing and grumbling about the kids of today not realising that blob of metal with tentacles is actually a carnifex.

unheilig
26-08-2009, 15:31
This whole "bandwagon" thing...

that means GW's marketing efforts to sell their new model kits are successful.

also... its that very marketing push that gives them a reason to give you a new set of rules to use for your existing army, so when you see that bandwagon drive by, give it a big ol' thumbs up, rather than a middle finger.

PhalanxLord
26-08-2009, 22:13
i like the tongue-in-cheek sentiment of the opening post :D

I have a tyranid army that may get pulled out of its boxes when the new book comes out. Seeing as it has been boxed for the past 13 years, i look forward to some cane-pointing and grumbling about the kids of today not realising that blob of metal with tentacles is actually a carnifex.

Considering my poor old 3rd ed fex gets looks of confusion by a lot of people (its not that old!)I wonder how they'd react to some 2nd ed nids. Makes me wish I had started before the 3rd ed nid book just to see that.

starlight
26-08-2009, 22:41
Part of me wants to throw together a pile of the old metal 2nd Ed Nids...but the time...oh to have the time... :(

Egaeus
26-08-2009, 23:09
Just a curiousity to the original poster and others of a similar mindset...when the new Codex comes out do you buy a completely new army to go with it?

I seriously doubt it, which means you probably aren't providing much of a revenue stream to GW.

GW's business is to sell models. If you already have X-thousand or so points in a given army you don't have much incentive to buy more. Basically there's a couple of ways they can get you to buy more...
(1) Completely new stuff. I always find this a tricky thing when creating new Codexes since it always feels like GW doesn't really want to move the storyline along...so in essence it feels like things are popping up out of nowhere, at least as far as armies like Marines, Guard, and Eldar go. I can see Orks always tinkering with things, the Tau are meant to be young and dynamic as a race, you never know what Chaos can dig up out of the Warp, and the Tyranids are constantly evolving. OK, I guess I sort of have to retract that tricky part...it does happen. ;)
(2) New models. Unless they make something simply astounding it's likely that you won't have to buy new stuff. But sometimes you will just because it looks good. My first Space Marine army is made up of 2nd Ed/Early 3rd Ed stuff...when the new Rhino model came out I started a second Marine army just to use them because I wanted the army to look uniform (although it does contain an old Demolisher because of how long they took to do a new model).
(3) Different organizations. Sometimes you'll have just the right number of models to fill up a unit, so they'll change it up on you. I guess this doesn't happen quite so often, but it does happen.

On the other hand, the so-called "Bandwagon" people are building a completely new army from scratch, so have to go out and get a whole brand-new army, which means more cash for GW. Which means they get to keep creating more codexes and models.

pyromaster55
26-08-2009, 23:15
It must be old age doing it to me (grumpy old man syndrome) but I get a little agitated when a new codex comes out for my main army (nids) and a wave of people jump on board the new codex bandwagon. Now I really don't have a good reason for it other than the feeling that I was here first (damn kids stay off my lawn with a wave of the cane).

It happened to me in 3rd and 4th and now it is happening again. Nids have always been my first love in 40K and I get a little annoyed at the bandwagon jumpers mainly because for the period of time it takes for another dex to come out you get comments like "You are only playing nids because they are on top now..." etc. Now I know some of you have nid armies shelved waiting on a new dex (damn kids can't stay focused). ;)

Time for a nap. :p


This my friend is called elitism, and is totally understandable, if not entirely productive.

I don't have to worry about it because i play UM and everyone picks on me for playing with ultrasmurfs.

philbrad2
26-08-2009, 23:18
Lets keep this one on the topic 'rails' please.

PhilB
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threewolftats
26-08-2009, 23:26
It must be old age doing it to me (grumpy old man syndrome) but I get a little agitated when a new codex comes out for my main army (nids) and a wave of people jump on board the new codex bandwagon. Now I really don't have a good reason for it other than the feeling that I was here first (damn kids stay off my lawn with a wave of the cane).

It happened to me in 3rd and 4th and now it is happening again. Nids have always been my first love in 40K and I get a little annoyed at the bandwagon jumpers mainly because for the period of time it takes for another dex to come out you get comments like "You are only playing nids because they are on top now..." etc. Now I know some of you have nid armies shelved waiting on a new dex (damn kids can't stay focused). ;)

look on the bright side..... in a couple of months there will be loads of armies/models up for garbs on e-bay as the wagoners leap onto the next new thing and need quick cash for it.........:D

threewolftats
26-08-2009, 23:29
oh and i found some old 1st or 2nd edition warriors lurking in the bottom of my bits box.... you know the ones that were about 3 inches tall with "boneswords"

oh and i found a zoat.... (alien centaur looking thing)

now theres some old stuff right there....

Vepr
26-08-2009, 23:44
Just a curiousity to the original poster and others of a similar mindset...when the new Codex comes out do you buy a completely new army to go with it?

I seriously doubt it, which means you probably aren't providing much of a revenue stream to GW.

GW's business is to sell models. If you already have X-thousand or so points in a given army you don't have much incentive to buy more. Basically there's a couple of ways they can get you to buy more...
(1) Completely new stuff. I always find this a tricky thing when creating new Codexes since it always feels like GW doesn't really want to move the storyline along...so in essence it feels like things are popping up out of nowhere, at least as far as armies like Marines, Guard, and Eldar go. I can see Orks always tinkering with things, the Tau are meant to be young and dynamic as a race, you never know what Chaos can dig up out of the Warp, and the Tyranids are constantly evolving. OK, I guess I sort of have to retract that tricky part...it does happen. ;)
(2) New models. Unless they make something simply astounding it's likely that you won't have to buy new stuff. But sometimes you will just because it looks good. My first Space Marine army is made up of 2nd Ed/Early 3rd Ed stuff...when the new Rhino model came out I started a second Marine army just to use them because I wanted the army to look uniform (although it does contain an old Demolisher because of how long they took to do a new model).
(3) Different organizations. Sometimes you'll have just the right number of models to fill up a unit, so they'll change it up on you. I guess this doesn't happen quite so often, but it does happen.

On the other hand, the so-called "Bandwagon" people are building a completely new army from scratch, so have to go out and get a whole brand-new army, which means more cash for GW. Which means they get to keep creating more codexes and models.

I update my army. I don't do it all at once but I will buy the new models and phase out the old ones. Between old 40K, Fantasy, Chronopia, Warzone, VOR, and a few others I have a room with boxes of figs I should probably just sell but hang onto. Right now it is more to annoy the wife than anything else. :p :D

Vepr
26-08-2009, 23:45
look on the bright side..... in a couple of months there will be loads of armies/models up for garbs on e-bay as the wagoners leap onto the next new thing and need quick cash for it.........:D

True. There is always a bright side. :)

Captain Micha
26-08-2009, 23:56
hopefully someone unloads their Tau for cheap on ebay... or their Crons when the Wolves come out.

Angelwing
27-08-2009, 02:20
The Bandwagon happens with every single new army book release. I've learnt to ignore it (some of my armies are on their 3rd army book) and reap the benefits of true bandwagoners offloading stuff on ebay.
I do admit that I prefer using armies that not many people play to throw something different into the mix. An army that receives a new book tends to get put aside for a while until I've done all the necessary adjustments to make it codex compliant or swapping stuff about to make it effective (eg moving my vox casters from armoured fist squads to line squads that stand near to the command squads.)
I don't think I've ever jumped on a wagon myself, although I've been accused of it. no doubt I'll get it again in the near future with my nids, necrons and skaven.

threewolftats
29-08-2009, 13:41
actually.... rather than jumping on the wagon..... i have a tendancy to start an army just before they announce its going to get a new dex..... meaning the one i just bought will be obsolete before i even finish buying the army......:mad:

they got me with both the Spacemarines and the imperial guard and the high elves for fantasy.....:rolleyes: