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kyinpie
25-08-2009, 01:04
i have been 'trying' to use ogres for a while now and have learnt alot on how to use them. however its always good to hear advice and opinions from people that have experience using them.

this list seems to be ok, but what do yu guys think?



tyrant
*tenderiser
*gut maw
*wyrdstone necklace
=300

butcher
*hellheart
=180

butcher
*bangstick
*dispell scroll
=180

butcher
*skullmantle
*dispell scroll
=175

bulls x3
bellower
=115

bulls x3
bellower
=115

leadbeltchers x2
bellower
=120

leadbeltchers x2
bellower
=120

iron guts x3 (butcher here)
bellower
=154

iron guts x3 (butcher here)
bellower
=154

iron guts x 3 (tyrant here, last butcher too?)
standard bearer
*rune maw
=184

gnoblars x20
=40

gnoblars x20
=40

gorger
=75

trappers x8
=48

TOTAL = 2000

what do people think and what would you change?
i was thinking of droping one butcher for a hunter with greatskull and two sabretusks or a BSB with skullplucker. what would your thoughts be on this too?

thanks all
ky

Jind_Singh
25-08-2009, 08:57
all in all a very nice standard multiple-small-unit force - but I would ask this - why the tenderiser? Sure it has D3 wounds and will help you kill characters in challenges quicker but ask yourself this - how often does a tyrant get to fight a challenge? I would rather go with siegebreaker, get +3 strength, and hit on ini - there wont be many armies with higher INI than your WS, wereas plenty buggers out there with higher WS.
Against a steam tank you will automatically hit it with all attacks, and do auto D6 wounds per hit! 5D6 auto-wounds per round of combat!!!! WHAT!!! You also save 20 pts - so get a name ofr him, either beastkliller or wallcrusher (double wounds on large targets or +1 impact hit for gutcharge). THis set-up makes the tryant more versitle than being a challenger to heros in hopes of regaining his wounds. Besides with luck a butcher will give him regen or something else to ensure he lives through the battle.
I prefer wallcrusher as it also allows me 5pts for a look-out gnobalr for his irongut unit - 1 chance in game of the tyrant not taking a direct hit from a cannon so long as iron guts are 3 strong you get look-out sir. Then the poor irongut dies saving his lord, but then next turn get your lord into combat or kill the threat so it wont happen again!!!! Belive me, there are times when keeping someone alive even just 1 turn extra means win/lose!

kyinpie
25-08-2009, 11:21
thanks for the advice!

i was thinking the tenderiser becouse if i issue a challange, i dougt many people would put charecter in his way and accept the challange with the unit champ! i was thinking that the tyrant with the d3 would deffo get the 6 wounds from the challange which will make up for the 3 ranks and outnumber other units get, try and even out a bit. thats what i was thinking. :)

question, siegebreaker, does it always do d6 wounds or is it only on things with no I?

BossBadBad
25-08-2009, 15:47
all in all a very nice standard multiple-small-unit force - but I would ask this - why the tenderiser? Sure it has D3 wounds and will help you kill characters in challenges quicker but ask yourself this - how often does a tyrant get to fight a challenge? I would rather go with siegebreaker, get +3 strength, and hit on ini - there wont be many armies with higher INI than your WS, wereas plenty buggers out there with higher WS.
Against a steam tank you will automatically hit it with all attacks, and do auto D6 wounds per hit! 5D6 auto-wounds per round of combat!!!! WHAT!!! You also save 20 pts - so get a name ofr him, either beastkliller or wallcrusher (double wounds on large targets or +1 impact hit for gutcharge). THis set-up makes the tryant more versitle than being a challenger to heros in hopes of regaining his wounds. Besides with luck a butcher will give him regen or something else to ensure he lives through the battle.
I prefer wallcrusher as it also allows me 5pts for a look-out gnobalr for his irongut unit - 1 chance in game of the tyrant not taking a direct hit from a cannon so long as iron guts are 3 strong you get look-out sir. Then the poor irongut dies saving his lord, but then next turn get your lord into combat or kill the threat so it wont happen again!!!! Belive me, there are times when keeping someone alive even just 1 turn extra means win/lose!
I have to disagree with you on this Jind.
The wording for Tenderiser says states that "A model wounded by the Tenderiser (after saves, etc) loses not one but D3 wounds." So, this can be used against other, multi-wound models. And at 5 attacks, that's a potential for 15 Wounds on a model.

Also, how often are you going up against Steamtanks? I suppose if you had a lot of Empire players it could be justified...
Those gut-charges should not happen often enough to justify sinking the points for Wallcrusher/Beastkiller. Most opponents can/will stop

Here is what I would do:
I would get rid of one of the three butchers, and get a bruiser, give him some heavy armor, and the Siegebreaker.

Also, the Siegebreaker only does D6 wounds against targets with no I.

mr_vespa
25-08-2009, 16:28
I'd agree with the Tenderizer, Gut Maw and Wyrdstone Necklace build. IMHO, most potent all-comers build for a Tyrant these days, considering opposing Lords are tooled out to be dead-killy unless facing buff magic lists. The benefits from a Siegebreaker are marginal compared to always dishing out D3 wounds, and I tend to believe said weapon is better used in the hands of a Bruiser or Butcher.

I'll agree the Siegebreaker allows for more hits when you compare the Tyrant's WS to the I values of most other Lords (anything not Chaos, Elven or Skaven will have a I stat lower than 6) and will wound virtually anything on a 2+ thanks to the massive strength bonus it provides (therefore making it the better choice against rank and file). But with a bit of mathhammer, we can see that the D3 wounds caused by Tenderizer outweighs the total damage caused by Siegebreaker. Total wounds is what this build wants, because it's optimized for character killing and monster slaying.

Jind_Singh
25-08-2009, 17:27
And there you have it!
Thats why I love these forums as from time to time you'll get people on who know their armies - and while I am an old hand with some of my armies OK is one of my newer ones, so after reading the 2 excellent posts above I retract my earlier statement!!!
Ah by the way I guess my love affair for the siegebreaker came from that we have 2-3 Empire players at the store - and they loves their tanks (I personally feel that they are only one slippery step away from delving into 40k - EKK!

mr_vespa
25-08-2009, 17:34
:D And even nicer when we all can get along with constructive criticism :D.

*sighs happily*

kyinpie
25-08-2009, 17:45
thanks for all the helpfull tips etc! :)
if i drop a butcher for a bruiser, is it worth making him a BSB? also which butcher would you recomend to drop?

thx again

mr_vespa
25-08-2009, 17:59
I'd personally keep the characters as they are. 3 butchers give you solid tactical magic ability, extra dispel dice and are no slouches at combat either.

A Bruiser BSB is cool, re-rolling break tests is always a plus. If I was in your shoes, I'd playtest a similiar list, switching him in for Bangstick Butcher (Hellheart and Skullmantle are better than the latter IMO) and getting a feel for the list. I'd recommend fielding the BSB without a magic banner and giving him a Big Name and magic gear (Siegebreaker could do wonders for him).

The bottom line is to see in-game what you prefer: an extra butcher for spellslinging/magic defense, or a fighty hero that allows the army to re-roll break tests.

Ryilan
25-08-2009, 21:39
I'd say, keep the 3 butchers. Ogre magic is one of the best magic lores in the game. A bruiser BSB imho does not compensate for that. Plus, if you really want to get the siegebreaker into your army, give it to a butcher.

But like mr_vespa side, it depends on what you prefer, so try both of em out.

Ryilan

Jind_Singh
26-08-2009, 08:41
Though I meant well with the siegebreaker, I do know that when I say 3 butchers is the way to go, 3 butchers is the way to go!
With butchers it's either 3 or 1, 2 just dont have enough zapp to break through magic defences, 3 is golden.
And in a pinch they still fight better than most heros out there, except they dont get great weapons (I mean like great wicked cool weapons, not the double handed kind), and armour. But T4 and 3 wounds sees them stay the course of battle. With the basic spell they can always regain a wound or 2.
The glue that holds the army together though is that that the spells really help to keep the boys hanging around - from +1 Toughness to regen.

kyinpie
26-08-2009, 16:01
butchers are T5!! witch is better! :)

i had my first win with ogres last night! i scored a masecure against empire!!! went with a different list tho!!! i took this:-

tyrant
tenderiser
gut maw
wyrdstone

butcher
hellhart

butcher
skullmantle
dispell scroll

hunter
sabres x2
greatskull

bull x3

bull x3

leadbeltcher x2

leadbeltcher x2

iron guts x3 (butcher here)
bellower

iron guts x3 (butcher here)
bellower

iron guts x4 (tyrant here)
standard
rune maw

gnoblars x20

gnoblars x20

gorger

total 2000pts

loved the hunter, but thought that the sabres was a waste of points! the bellowers on the iron guts seemed a bit pointless to! that gives me 60 pts to spend else where!

i was thinking of adding 8x trappers

giving the hunter greyback pelts and the tyrant greatskull and one gnoblar thiefstone instead of the wyrdstone and gut maw! also changing the magic standard to either a ragbanner or war banner! and if enough pts giving the tryrant heavy armour and the unit a look out gnoblar! as my opponent tryed to snip my tyrant a few times with a cannon!

timorth
08-09-2009, 08:08
I am thinking of doing Ogre kingdoms. But instead of GW models I am actually going to use the Devourer and Wolfen models from Rackham. I have ALOT of them. I was wondering if any of you have ever looked at the models if you have any suggestions regarding which models to use for what... I m going to use the Huntsmen with their Bows for Leadbelchers. Other than that haven't given it much thought. I was pleased to finally find sopmething on OK though not many people talk about them on here.
BTW I am normally a HE or Dwarf player. and haven't played since 5th ed.
THanks in advance.

kyinpie
08-09-2009, 12:36
have you got a link to some pictures?

timorth
11-09-2009, 02:29
Got to coolminiornot and look for devourers. that will give you some pics. doing the same thing on ebay will as well. I will post some when I unpack my minis from my latest move.

kyinpie
20-09-2009, 23:56
ok cool cheers timorth