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View Full Version : Orcs and Goblins all-comers list: Advice?



Memnos
25-08-2009, 14:37
So I'd love to make an Orc and Goblin list that can take on the following all-too-often seen lists in my store:

1) The 2000 point stegadon horde.

2) The Vampire Counts magic spammer.

3) The Greater Demon rush.

What do you think? Is there any build that can deal with these hordes?

ARabidNun
25-08-2009, 16:02
I think that you will find it difficult to create an O&G army to really compete systematically with these "power" lists. O&G are unfortunately really fun but really unpredictable and these "power" lists are not created to play for fun or sportmanship, they are played to win.

I enjoy playing an all goblin army, but never expect to do any better than a slaughter against these lists. First it is important you learn the weaknesses of each of these "power" lists and exploit them. for example, VC lists can rely heavily on magic and solid, difficult to destroy units so find a way to target and kill the general and subdue the magic phase. Demon lists are tough, and typically point denial units. A hero on a great squig with the right items can do wonders to a greater demon or Vampire Lord.

The current rules for O&G lacks any great advantage like the current books such as ASF and such, and several of the elite units find themselves hard pressed against these new armies. Capitalize on manouverability and a few savage orc shamans for powerful spell combos. Units of Night goblins with a variation of fanatic numbers will keep your enemy guessing and avoid point sinking into units that are really vunerable (I am looking at you giant lol). They make for fun games but not heavy hitters.

skuller
25-08-2009, 17:17
These are my two cents max out spearchukkas 4-6 at least and 1-2 doomdivers (if you are not using Giants)
Greater deamons and stegadons are large so you be able to mass all your spear chukkas shots at them and do some decent amount of damage.
The banner of gork that provides you and add DD per rank is pretty usefull against these 3 armies add 2 shaman lv 1 as scroll caddies or staff that allow you to add +1 to dispel and will even out the magic phase.

Malorian
25-08-2009, 17:35
So I'd love to make an Orc and Goblin list that can take on the following all-too-often seen lists in my store:

1) The 2000 point stegadon horde.

2) The Vampire Counts magic spammer.

3) The Greater Demon rush.

What do you think? Is there any build that can deal with these hordes?

Stegadons = warmachines, strong combat characters, and large ranked units. Night goblins can do great with their nets and fanatics but make sure to keep them in range of the general.

Vampire magic spam = fighty units. You can't stop the magic so work on killing faster then he can raise. Personally I think savage orcs with spears are the perfect solution to a horde that will most likely ASF. Another way is to take a wyvern lord and hunt the general, but more times than not you'll just get swamped with vanheled zombies.

Greater deamon rush = well it depends on the deamon... but spearchukkas are your friend as are large ranked units near a high leadership character. If they run leadership bomb slap them and tell them to stop playing like a girl...

Memnos
25-08-2009, 17:47
Stegadons = warmachines, strong combat characters, and large ranked units. Night goblins can do great with their nets and fanatics but make sure to keep them in range of the general.

Vampire magic spam = fighty units. You can't stop the magic so work on killing faster then he can raise. Personally I think savage orcs with spears are the perfect solution to a horde that will most likely ASF. Another way is to take a wyvern lord and hunt the general, but more times than not you'll just get swamped with vanheled zombies.

Greater deamon rush = well it depends on the deamon... but spearchukkas are your friend as are large ranked units near a high leadership character. If they run leadership bomb slap them and tell them to stop playing like a girl...

See - Here's the problem. Let's say, on 2000 points, that I'm facing 4 Stegadons(Not unlikely) - 6 Spearchukkas=3 hits=1.5 wounding hits=3 wounds after damage. That means they get to charge before I even kill one. If you throw in Greater Demons, they have ward saves. I won't even kill one with spearchukkas before they close with my army.

If it's a greater Daemon, that problem is only exacerbated.

I'm intrigued by your Savage Orcs with Spears scenario. They're immune to fear, they do ridiculous amounts of damage. Hmm... I think that's the answer.

The war machines just don't do it against the Ancient Stegadon.

Arguleon-veq
25-08-2009, 17:56
I think one of Orcs and Gobs biggest strengths is that you can almost completely shut down the opponents magic phase, a very big phase for some of the power armies right now.

The problem with that is you have to go magic heavy yourself. Orc and Gob magic is very 'Win Big Lose Big' but against those kind of armies anyway, where your really supposed to lose, that isn't that big of an issue.

I manage;
10 Power,
10 Dispel,
+2 to cast for my Orc when in combat,
1 Bound,
-1 Enemy Power,
+1 to Dispel.

That really should almost totally shut down 14 Power Dice Nehek Spam Vamps.

Squig Herds and Hoppers are great against the big armies, ITP and lots of S5 attacks, they can hunt Heralds/Thralls[the keys to their armies].

Deglosh
25-08-2009, 19:17
great advice here. keep it coming, hehe

Malorian
25-08-2009, 21:51
See - Here's the problem. Let's say, on 2000 points, that I'm facing 4 Stegadons(Not unlikely) - 6 Spearchukkas=3 hits=1.5 wounding hits=3 wounds after damage. That means they get to charge before I even kill one. If you throw in Greater Demons, they have ward saves. I won't even kill one with spearchukkas before they close with my army.

If it's a greater Daemon, that problem is only exacerbated.

I'm intrigued by your Savage Orcs with Spears scenario. They're immune to fear, they do ridiculous amounts of damage. Hmm... I think that's the answer.

The war machines just don't do it against the Ancient Stegadon.

Remember that you will get several chances to shoot and that the cost of those chukkas is a lot less than than of the target. Even if the greater deamon comes in and wipes out a unit before you take it out you are still ahead.

Stone throwers are the true bane of stegadons. Remember that all parts of the model are hit and you only randomize the strong hit at the center. A single hit might not kill the steg but it sure as hell will kill all the crew and force it to take a monster reaction test.

Edit: Another thing that will help against stegadons are redirecting unit. I'm talking about single trolls, snotlings, wolf riders, and spider riders. Stop them from hitting you all at once and pick them apart.

selone
25-08-2009, 22:04
As an orc player what you need is spearchukka's and a good magic defense. Spearchukka's for the big gribblies and Orcs do magic defense well (probably the best they do)

4 spear chukka's, 1 stone thrower, 1 unit of squighoppers will do well against all those lists. I'd do a doom diver for 1 of my rares as well.

One gobbo shaman with staff of sneaky stealing and 1 black orc BSB with morks banner is 7 DD and -1 to their PD. Thats what I'd use in an all comers list not just for your regular opponent's. GL with the count von count's though.