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PrivateLucky
26-08-2009, 02:34
Hey, I am starting WoC and i was looking at some tacticas and they said somewhere that knights have a 1+ save and warriors have a 2+ save. Now i checked it out and i got this

For knights
chaos armor 4+
with Shield 3+
on mount 2+

and for warriors
chaos armor 4+
with shield 3+

So im confused on how this works, am i doing this wrong?

TheDean04
26-08-2009, 02:47
For knights
chaos armor 4+
with Shield 3+
on mount 2+
(barding) 1+

and for warriors
chaos armor 4+
with shield 3+
(hand weapon and shield bonus) 2+

Axis
26-08-2009, 03:00
The hand weapon shield bonus is only whilst in combat

Witchblade
26-08-2009, 03:22
The hand weapon shield bonus is only whilst in combat
*when fighting someone on your front.

zeekill
26-08-2009, 05:39
Yea TheDean got it. A few beginner tips because I have time to spare:

1) Marauder Calvary go a long way because your primary weakness as WoC is poor monuverability.

2) Your Warriors DESTROY in combat, but not if you get hit in the flank. Most infantry players do 2 full units of Chaos Warriors. Be smart. Do this:

Unit of 20 Marauders - Unit of 10 Warriors - Unit of 10 or 15 Warriors - Unit of 10 Warriors - Unit of 20 Marauders

This way your flanks are protected by tarpits as your destructive force moves on. If you do this you still have pleanty of combat ability to the front with your warriors and do not have to worry about being outmaneuvered and painfully hit in the flank by a strong unit such as heavy calvary.

3) Equip your Warriors with Halberds and Shields. You cant use both at once, but when charged you can use your shields to survive the combat with a 2+ save, and in later rounds when you most likely strike first with your initiative of 5 use your halberds, which give you strength 5. That heavy calvary won't know what hit them!

Angelust
26-08-2009, 05:42
Was I wrong in thinking that you can't change weapons after a combat starts?

i.e. if you use flails in round 1, you can't use 2 hand weapons in round two, etc etc...

Also, 6 wide, 2 deep (12 models) seems to work really well too, as they're still somewhat maneuverable, but you maximize their kill-zone.

Kalec
26-08-2009, 05:44
I hate to say it, zeekill, but you are utterly wrong on 2 and 3.

2 is wrong not only because marauders are ****-poor tarpits (the Empire in me wishes the reverse is true more deeply then you could know), but also because most WoC players don't use two full units of warriors, smart or otherwise.

3 is wrong because you can't change weapons during combat. If your warriors pick shields, they are stuck with shields. However, halberds are generally recommended because the extra S really helps when they do get to charge something.

Angelust
26-08-2009, 05:57
Lots of marauders with MoS and a Banner of the Gods nearby can make great tarpits, but the 6" range of the banner means maybe 3 units of marauders at max will benefit from stubborn, and your warriors are usually going to have to try and counter-charge the extreme flanks of these marauder units. Otherwise, as Kalec has stated, Marauders are ****-poor tarpits.

Perhaps a more viable tactic is to have the WoC be tarpits, and have marauders with MoK and greatweapons do the countercharging.

Urdokadin
26-08-2009, 07:39
No I would not recommend marauders as being the flank units. Reason being is that you slam into that flank, do you smack the 2+ save t4 warriors or generate boatloads of CR against the (at best) 6+ save marauders using great weapons/flails who are only t3?

Jushak
26-08-2009, 12:38
No I would not recommend marauders as being the flank units. Reason being is that you slam into that flank, do you smack the 2+ save t4 warriors or generate boatloads of CR against the (at best) 6+ save marauders using great weapons/flails who are only t3?

The point probably being that you flail down enough opposition from the side to minimise losses there. Not to mention flank + denied ranks means you're likely to get more CR than your opponent gets from killing marauders.

Avian
26-08-2009, 14:27
It all depends on what you are flanking. If it is something very nasty you probably don't want to involve T3 guys with no armour.

mr_vespa
26-08-2009, 15:43
Like Avian mentionned, it's all a question of opportunity. Marauders can fill many roles, but a US 18 ranked 6*3, MoK, great weapons (because really, why take flails when they're both the same point cost?) with an Exated Champion can deliver quite a decent punch. Alone and without MoK, they will lack the hitting power to squelch the flank unit's response.

Using Marauders with an MSU tactic in mind is also quite effective. Running little blocks of 10-12 marauders as alternate screeners, flank protectors and speed bumps to set up charges for your powerful units is very efficient.

Of course, they can never match the durability of their Chaos Warrior brethren (the increased T alone makes it hard for them to catch up, let alone the absence of Chaos Armour).

Drachen_Jager
26-08-2009, 18:18
And don't forget, if you want REALLY heavy armour;

Exalted Champ -

chaos armor 4+
on Juggernaut (+3 to save) 1+
with Enchanted Shield (-1)+

As long as your opponent doesn't ignore armour saves you get a pretty good save vs nearly everything, even vs Str 6 attacks you save on a 2+

Oh and remember, even if you have a 1+ you still fail to save on a 1.

Avian
26-08-2009, 21:35
And if he scores a Killing Blow you get neither armour save or regeneration.

Dexter099
27-08-2009, 02:02
25 Marauders is preferrable ot the 20 man units just because oyu can take 5 casualties before you start losing effectiveness.

Nathangonmad
28-08-2009, 01:15
Yea TheDean got it. A few beginner tips because I have time to spare:

1) Marauder Calvary go a long way because your primary weakness as WoC is poor monuverability.

2) Your Warriors DESTROY in combat, but not if you get hit in the flank. Most infantry players do 2 full units of Chaos Warriors. Be smart. Do this:

Unit of 20 Marauders - Unit of 10 Warriors - Unit of 10 or 15 Warriors - Unit of 10 Warriors - Unit of 20 Marauders

This way your flanks are protected by tarpits as your destructive force moves on. If you do this you still have pleanty of combat ability to the front with your warriors and do not have to worry about being outmaneuvered and painfully hit in the flank by a strong unit such as heavy calvary.

3) Equip your Warriors with Halberds and Shields. You cant use both at once, but when charged you can use your shields to survive the combat with a 2+ save, and in later rounds when you most likely strike first with your initiative of 5 use your halberds, which give you strength 5. That heavy calvary won't know what hit them!

Sigh, don't listen to this guy most of this is bad advice and the 3rd point is even bloody illegal. Also is this the same guy that complained about Vampire Counts being underpowered?

Logan_uc
28-08-2009, 19:44
Dont bash marauders. 24 full command MoS and a nurgle sorcerer with blood pendant can be better than warriors. Wen i play normaly the fast high str units flank, units that kill warrior as easly as marauders. and then the blood pendant an combat resulution can in handy

Dartzstrong
28-08-2009, 19:52
Dont bash marauders. 24 full command MoS and a nurgle sorcerer with blood pendant can be better than warriors. Wen i play normaly the fast high str units flank, units that kill warrior as easly as marauders. and then the blood pendant an combat resulution can in handy

I take marauders because I like variety. ( keep in mind I'm not the type who LOVES to win....I like it..but its not the most important for me.)

I play 3 blocks of warriors with great weapons in the middle, a block of 15 marauders on each side, and 5 marauder cav on the far flanks. All with mark of nurgle, and all my marauders have flails. 80% of the time, this is my deployment. Basic, simple, yet effective against most armies, but certainly not all.

zeekill
29-08-2009, 14:49
3 is wrong because you can't change weapons during combat. If your warriors pick shields, they are stuck with shields. However, halberds are generally recommended because the extra S really helps when they do get to charge something.

Wow then ive been cheated alot when I played against Chaos...

theunwantedbeing
29-08-2009, 15:00
Wow then ive been cheated alot when I played against Chaos...

That's what happens when you dont bother reading the rules.