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6th and Final Champion
10-05-2005, 03:30
Hey guys, I was wondering. Im looking for a close combat army to start after Necrons and I want to know if space wolves were a viable option. Im not exactly sure what they do but Im looking at army builder right now and apparently they cant take terminators. But thats besides the point. I just want to knowif they have character and if they're a good CC oriented army or if I should play Khorne Berserkers or Blood Angels. Thanks!

Irondog
10-05-2005, 04:32
Space Wolves are a very characterful army to play and build. They offer an incredible range of conversion/painting opportunities and are a lot of fun to play. You will no doubt hear from many folks that the Space Wolves have been 'nerfed' in 4th ed. While the death of the rhino rush has hurt the tactics of some of the more, shall we say, "narrow-minded" wolf players they are still a very viable army.

I've been playing Wolves for a long time. I've had to change my tactics a bit since 4th ed. but I still win more often than I lose. Space Wolves actually CAN take terminators, but only on Wolf Guard models. This means you can only have them as a bodyguard for a character, or as a squad leader. I wouldn't suggest terminator armor for a Wolf Guard squad leader because it will deny you the ability to "sweeping advance".

IMO (and I am most definitely biased) Space Wolves are a far more characterful choice than either Blood Angels or Khorne Berzerkers. Both armies are more difficult to control than Space Wolves. Nothing pisses you off more than having a squad go all bloodthirsty and start racing after the enemy when you don't want them to.

Go with the Wolves. You won't regret it.

Two major things about the wolves to be aware of:

- Long Fangs are not worth it. They look cool but they cost too much and will get wasted in very short order.

- You can't get heavy weapons in your troops squads. Use the meltaguns and massive amount of available power weapons to your advantage.

You are used to playing Necrons, and the wolves will be almost exactly the opposite. Your shooting will now have a very limited effective range. Where you could hang back with the Necrons and blast the **** out of your opponent, now you'll have to get up close and personal. That's okay. The wolves excel at close quarter fighting. You won't win many gunfights, but there are very few armies that can stand up to the wolves once you get in.

Hope this helps

Black Mage
10-05-2005, 05:00
Wolves are really cool, I have to admit. Lots of character, and the ability to play as a shooty, yet very assault-oriented army is pretty neat. Another way you could go tho for a CC based Marine army is BT's, what with a codex coming out in a few short months and all.

Nazguire
10-05-2005, 08:56
The Space Wolves are my primary 40k army. I love them and I love playing. If I win or lose, meh, it don't matter, because as long as there is a good scrap in the middle involving most of the armies involved, then it is fun. Because the Space Wolves are so oriented towards close combat, it usually means that big scrap is a victory to the Wolves :D

They have a host of conversion oppurtunities and have some great models, the Blood Claws, 13th Co. Wulfen, Logan Grimnar etc are great and their rules are many but not overpowered.

Plus they get a Leman Russ...Exterminator...but still a Leman Russ :D :D :D

Karhedron
10-05-2005, 09:23
Space Wolves are very cool and have plenty of really excellent models available to them. They used to rely on assault troops in Rhinos so 4th edition has slowed them down slightly but they are still a very fun and competative army. They also have some unique units like a WS5 A3 Venerable Dreadnought which can be fielded as an HQ if you wish.

The strength of a Marine army is usually its basic troops and this is doubly true of Space Wolves. Grey Hunters are possibly the best basic troop unit in the game with True Grit and the ability to take 2 power weapons/fists per squad. Blood Claws can be taken in very large units and 1 model in 3 can be given a power weapon/fist. They also get +2 attacks on the charge meaning they can shred almost any enemy they charge.

Heavy support is a slight weak spot for Space Wolves so I would recommend taking a tank or two. Predator Annihilators are a very fluffy choice for Space Wolves since they invented them and Land Raider Crusaders are a great choice for carrying Blood Claws to the enemy. Long Fangs are rather expensive for what they do and cannot take extra squad members to act as ablative wounds. Grey Hunters cannot take heavy weapons but you can always mount them in Razorbacks for extra fire support. Giving them melta or plasma guns is usually a good bet. Land Speeders and Attack bikes also provide mobile heavy weapons and fit nicely with a Space Wolves mechanised army.

Lastly Drop Pods are an excellent way of getting your army up close to the enemy in a hurry. A squad of 10 Grey Hunters in either a Rhino or Drop pod can get close to the enemy, leap out and rapid fire a lot of bolters in their direction.

6th and Final Champion
10-05-2005, 21:53
Their army comp seems to be different than most marine chapters. Like their ability to take 4 HQs in 2500 points. Is army builder right with this?

Karhedron
10-05-2005, 22:42
Their army comp seems to be different than most marine chapters. Like their ability to take 4 HQs in 2500 points. Is army builder right with this?
Space Wolves have special rules for HQs. They MUST take one HQ (no more no less) for each 750 points (or part thereof) in the army.

So up to 750 points = 1 HQ
751 - 1500 = 2 HQs
1501 - 2250 = 3 HQs
2251 - 3000 = 4 HQs

This can get pricey but at least they are allowed to field a Venerable Dreanought as one HQ choice.

Xhalax
10-05-2005, 22:44
Wolves are a non-codex Chapter....so some of the normal rules, especially army organisation don't really apply to them.

But if you really want a hack n slash army, go for 13th Company Space Wolves. They're the army I started with (I've not been gaming long) and I found them a lot of fun to play with. They're very fast and tough. Plus they've got some nice little rules that make them even better, in my view.
But your basic trooper as more or less the same stats as an ordinary Space Marine Veteran Sgt. (goes with the fluff as these no Blood Claws or younger marines. And they're battle-hardened from 10,000 years in the Eye of Terror).
Plus you get Wulfen in your army.....great fun to have tearing around the board ripping people to pieces.
Wolves and bikers are very good in the 13th Co. army too. Wolves can also be used sneakily to control quaters of the board (one squad kept out of sight, in reserve can control of contest a quater if the battle comes to that).
Long Fangs can be given solely speacial weapons, which make for a much better squad than that of heavy weapons....or at least in my experience as the Long Fangs are usually some of the first causualties. And they provide the best tank-busting capability ( Grey Slayerspacks can have meltas, flamers and plasma guns too, with Storm Claw only having power weapons)

Downside, no tanks (only bikes), no Dreads and Terminator armour does nothing for the army other than slow it down....and speed is the 13th Co's best weapon.
Plus they're a small force (2250 pts max) so every casualty is a heavy one, but they're hardy and a only a hand-full used well can win a game while everyone else just sits back and relaxes

But they are a brilliant hack n slash army as I've cut a few bloody paths to victory with them

6th and Final Champion
11-05-2005, 02:14
I dont see whats so good about wulfen, I mean, they allow saves right?

Xhalax
11-05-2005, 02:25
They do allow saves, but overall they have much better stats than all your other troops. In fact, they're got better stats than Terminators...with the exception of the 2+ armoour save. Wulfen only get the normal 3+

What is good about Wulfen is the sheer number of attacks you get from them, especially when you have big packs of them.
They strike first (Inititive 5)
Plus they're really fast (fleet of foot/claw and Animal Rage which isn't affected by difficult terrain).
And at strength 5, they can pull apart tanks and transports without much outside help.


Though Mark of the Wulfen in a normal Space Wolf army works differently from the Mark of the Wulfen in the 13th Co.

Evilmerlin
11-05-2005, 09:27
Lead the Wulfens with a Wolfpriest armed with Meltabombs or combi-meltas and you've got your tanks and dreadnought insurance.

Slyracoon
11-05-2005, 15:28
Space Wolves are great fun, personally I play the 13th Company so I'll talk about them. They are possibly one of the best assault armies in 40k, but they are also one of the smallest and quite slow. This can be quite easily countered using bikes (their bikes are incredibly good), wolves and the Rune Priest's power "The Gate". Wolves are possibly the best unit in the army, as they're a mere 10pts with S4 A2 and they move as cavalry! Truly a bargain, and they go a long way to beefing out your tiny force. The Gate is one of the most fun psychic powers in 40k, as it instantly redeploys the Priest and one unit using the deep strikes rules. Traditional tactic for this in my games involves throwing the Priest and a unit of Slayers into the middle of the enemy army, and just daring them to assault. Many a time a Chaos Lord has cut down my Rune Priest, only to find himself crushed in turn by my Pack Leader with 5-7 power fist attacks. I find Wulfen really depend on the army you're playing; next to useless against Space Marines but a godsend against Orks, IG and Tyranids.

All in all, a great fun army to play but a tricky one all the same. One pie plate and you're, well, pied.

Xhalax
11-05-2005, 16:07
I wouldn't say the 13th Co were slow. Far from it (especially in City Fight) as they all have fleet of foot/claw. They also have 'Move through cover' which gives then an extra D6 roll on difficult terrain.
Plus they have Scout rules, so they can redeploy before the start..moving them closer to the enemy....if you wish.
Wulfen had Animal Rage which means they move twice (one normal move followed by a further D6" that's uneffected by difficult terrain.

All these are great during City Fight (which are the only games I've played so far)....while the other army is slogging it's ay across the ruin, I'm skipping over them with ease and chopping them to pieces as I go.

The Gate is a lot of fun, though I find the only bad thing about it is that my Rune Priest seems to dra a lot of fire to try and kill him so him and his squad can't pop out of the ether and whack them.

I've never played against Space Marines with them yet, so I'll have to see how they perform against proper power armour, as the Wulfen cut the Sisters down easily enough.

6th and Final Champion
11-05-2005, 17:22
Can you only use "the gate" in 13th company?

Xhalax
11-05-2005, 17:23
Yup. it's 13th Co. only.
It goes with the fluff.

6th and Final Champion
11-05-2005, 17:24
Arent they the traitor space wolves from the warp or something?

Xhalax
11-05-2005, 17:29
The 13th Company are still loyal to Russ and the Emperor as they've been kicking Chaos's collect **** in the Eye of Terror and just generally being a thorn in the bad guys side. Only they've reverted to a more beastial state due to being in the Eye of Terror as the Curse of the Wulfen is also thought to be a defense against being corrupted by Chaos.
Losing your humanity to the beast inside is preferable to losing your soul to the powers of the Warp.

Originally, the 13th Great Company was created for all aspriants and marines that showed the Mark of the Wulfen and so would eventually descend into beastial madness. They were banded together so they could still be useful in combat to the Chapter.
After Leman Russ left for the Eye of Terror, the 13th Company followed in search of him and were lost for 10,000 years.
But mysteriously reappeared with the onset of the 13th Black Crusade. Bt no one really knows why they have returned. But they could be the herald of news of Leman Russ's fate and possibly his return.

Now they're back, will they rejoin their brethern? Who knows.
But I don't think they'll ever go back to the Fang. They do have shreds of humanity within them, but they're too beastial to be reaccepted.
Plus I'm sure the Inquisition will take an interest in them....which the Space Wolves certain won't like, want or tolerate.

6th and Final Champion
11-05-2005, 17:39
And another thing, why dont they like Dark Angels?

Xhalax
11-05-2005, 17:54
The rivalry between the Wolves and the Dark Angels goes back to before the Horus Heresy.
Basically, Leman Russ and Lion El'Johnson hated each other and seemed to take any opportunity to get one over on the other....well Russ did anyway and it usually ended up with Russ and Johnson slugging it out in a big fight.

Ok...this is where I get my fluff mixed up as I have too much to deal with. But i'll try my best and someone else will put me right.

But the real hatred kicked off over a battle.
The tyrant Durath called Russ 'The Emperor's lap-dog' and Russ swore that he'd kill Durath for it.
The DAs and Wolves were supposed to fight together but Russ had ordered that he was going to be the one that killed the tyrant.
But Johnson refused, having scouted out the fortress. Plus he thought that Russ would ruin his delicate plan to take the fortress.
So Johnson stormed forward at the start of the battle leaving the Wolves flank unprotected and so they suffered heavy casualties. But the bitterest blow was the the DAs had taken the enemy so easily and that Johnson himself slew Durath in front of Russ as he fought at the base of the fortress, which put quite a dint in Russ's pride and ego.

So after the battle, Russ stormed after Johnson and set about him for the slight on Russ's honour.
They fought for a whole day, knocking chucks out of each other (this may have been where Russ got stabbed through the heart by Johnson...I can't remember, but he did at one point).
They were evenly matched in battle and after a day of fighting, they collapse and Russ, feeling that they were being kinda silly and that the slight on his hounour had been repaid, laughed.
Johnson went nuts, thinking Russ's frst blow had been traitorous and knocked Russ out, feeling that Russ was being disrespectful and slighting him and he knocking him for six, honour was stasified.

So they swore vengence on each other and ever time the two Chapters meet, the best warrior from each Chapter fight for the honour of the Chapter.

However, it was said that the Primarchs did kinda get over themselves and their dislike of each other waned and they became friends and allies eventually. But the vows still hold true to this day and the Wolves and the DAs don't get along and seem to find any excuse to try and get one over on the other