PDA

View Full Version : 40k and District 9



Helsing
29-08-2009, 10:40
For those of you who have not seen Peter Jackson's film District 9, suffice to say that the topics in which it dealt; xenophobia and militarized detention of aliens, can be easily related to 40k.

For example, the aliens "Prawns" are kept in shanty towns in Africa and are under constant military supervision as well as segregation. Bio-engineering companies routinely harvest them for genetic research and weapons development, etc. But most importantly they are not allowed to leave.

Now what if you reversed the roles. Humans are the ones under guard, and lets say Tau are there wardens. Xenophobia is still there, no matter how the "government" tries to disguise it, basic rights are taken from them and they live lives of poverty, depression and fear. There are plenty of cases of Gue'vesa on the Empire's borders who are either survivors of a war or have had their planet annexed, who would probably live this way.
Also, the "Prawns" tech is pretty simiar to the Tau's, if you've ever seen a Battlesuit then you'll know what I'm talking about. The point I'm trying to get across is that modern cinema offers additional insight into what the 40k universe might be like.


PS: I dont know if this should have been posted under General Discussion.

the_yuk
29-08-2009, 11:23
How good was the 20mm anti material rifle, ahem sorry i like big guns! It was a good movie, and i never thought to relate it 40k wise, youve given me some good food for thought.

Helsing
29-08-2009, 12:07
Yeah, I imagine a Tau burst cannon would have the same effect.

ntin
29-08-2009, 15:53
District 9 used the Prawns as an allegory for non white South Africans during the apartheid. In Cape Town, District 6 was a designated zone for non white South Africans. Furthermore the character Wikus symbolized the absurdity of racial categorization; that exists or existed in every country around the world. Namely the South African racial groups but also laws like the “one drop rule”. The symbolism is drawn when he discovers the prawn infection and his status as a human (white South African) was slowly stripped away with his transformation.

While racial xenophobia is a subtext that exists within the Warhammer 40k narrative. The depth of racial interaction is very shallow and not the main focus of the plot. With a few rare exceptions such as the Tau it mostly boils down to the “we kill them all” answer for interracial relations.

Unless the newer Tau fluff has changed this inducted races into the Greater Good are treated fairly well. There certainly appears to be a tiered citizenry at play with the Tau on the top. As the name of their race implies Tau, Tao, the Tau are seeking harmony within their little corner of the universe. Injecting unneeded strife would be counter to their ideology. Remember genocide is a perfectly acceptable answer to most problems in the dark future of the year 40,000.

Londinium
29-08-2009, 16:11
Unless the newer Tau fluff has changed this inducted races into the Greater Good are treated fairly well. There certainly appears to be a tiered citizenry at play with the Tau on the top. As the name of their race implies Tau, Tao, the Tau are seeking harmony within their little corner of the universe. Injecting unneeded strife would be counter to their ideology. Remember genocide is a perfectly acceptable answer to most problems in the dark future of the year 40,000.

The Tau background has been getting darker recently, in Dark Crusade (I know it's a computer game but GW sign off on all fluffy stuff) if you won the single player campaign as the Tau the ending cinematic showed the Tau rounding up all the native humans and sterilising them, so within a couple of generations the human population of the planet would be extinct and replaced with Tau. Thats pretty dark stuff and a sign that 'The Greater Good' isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

Lord Damocles
29-08-2009, 18:49
the Tau the ending cinematic showed the Tau rounding up all the native humans and sterilising them, so within a couple of generations the human population of the planet would be extinct and replaced with Tau.
The single gender re-education/work camps might have had something to do with it. It's only noted as being a possibility that the Tau used some form of sterilisation on the human population.

mel_danes
30-08-2009, 18:39
For those of you who have not seen Peter Jackson's film District 9,.....

This credit should go to the director and co-writer Neil Blomkamp. It is an expansion of his earlier indy work "Alive in Joburg" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ1vHRs_EOs). Jackson only produced it.

If one wants to go this route imagine psycher slums, or muty wards. Humans would be doing these types of things to each other, like we still do now. Xenophobia does not need alien races. This kind of activity would be all over the imperium in the form of work camps and forced labor activity.

Yeah GrimDark!

JHZ
30-08-2009, 19:04
I wouldn't put it past the Tau to have something like that in their use. Not in a bad sense ("Damn aliens come and there goes the neighbourhood!", but more in a naive "if you won't behave, you can go to your room" sort of way where ripples are ironed out or brushed under the carpet.

After all, not all embrace the Greater Good (aka. do what the Ethereals say, or are you gonna tell me there's some democratic voting on what's best for all?), but you think all those aliens living in Tau space have anywhere else to go? It's not like they can just hop the next ship to happy town. And the Tau can't just start gassing them to get rid of them just because they don't wanna play by their rules.

So lets just make a "freetown" where you can live if you don't feel like living the way the society demands it, but at the same time you give away all the benefits of said society, like healthcare, security, etc.

Horus38
31-08-2009, 04:43
Movie was bad to the @ss, really enjoyed it.

Although I found the scenario much more likely that the Imperium would be putting the boot down on some xenos/ab-humans in a district 9 type setup rather then a race like the Tau.

Inquisitor Engel
31-08-2009, 06:31
For those of you who have not seen Peter Jackson's film District 9...

District 9 was FAR more Niel Blomkamp's film than Peter Jackson's. Please give credit where credit is due.

WrYpoRrY
31-08-2009, 07:02
40k doesn't go into it as deep as District 9.
Doesn't in my opinion go many places as far or as well as District 9.
Oh well I'll just say that 40k (the story, presentation etc) is not as good as District 9.
Not saying 40k's bad, just that District 9 was extremely good.

Condottiere
31-08-2009, 07:18
The Peter Jackson treatment is take great material and make it more accessible to the audience.

For Peter Jackson to do 40K, he needs great material to work with, assuming that ever was to be a film of it and he was selected as producer.

Firaxin
31-08-2009, 23:20
Also, the "Prawns" tech is pretty simiar to the Tau's, if you've ever seen a Battlesuit then you'll know what I'm talking about.
*snort* No.

Despite the visual design ethics of some of their guns (even the mech itself looked most like a penitent engine), perhaps, their tech had much much much more in common with the Imperium. That heavy machine gun on the mech was distinctly a heavy bolter (in terms of mechanics), for example.

Lamhirh
01-09-2009, 01:25
There are ideas floating about in said film that could be ported over quite readily into 40K, specifically a Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader campaign. One of your more hardline imperial characters could encounter an alien thingamagig that causes him/her to transform into a non-humanoid lifeform. Maybe the device or substance was the magnum opus of some brilliant (and deranged) heretek who believed that turning his fellow humans into pseudo-primarchs, eldar etc. was a good idea. The end result might not be monstrous but the individual would nevertheless be singled out for purging by the very people he/she once identified most with...

Argastes
01-09-2009, 01:32
*snort* No.

Despite the visual design ethics of some of their guns (even the mech itself looked most like a penitent engine), perhaps, their tech had much much much more in common with the Imperium. That heavy machine gun on the mech was distinctly a heavy bolter (in terms of mechanics), for example.

Was it? Maybe more like a burst cannon in terms of effects. When they had Wikus (or however you spell it) shooting at the pig carcasses, a one-second burst from that thing seemed to put about a hundred holes in that pig. That's a pretty obscene rate of fire, much higher than a heavy bolter seems to have, and the projectiles also seemed to be non-explosive as well. What do you mean by "similar in terms of mechanics", anyhow? Insofar as it was a big gun that apparently fired rocket-assisted bullets? That's pretty broad.

And then it had that lightning gun, seemed kind of Tau-ish. And the mini-missile pods that fired swarms of small homing missiles? Come on. The general shape of the mech might have been somewhat similar to that of a penitent engine, but in terms of it's actual capabilities and level of technological sophistication, it was way closer to a battlesuit. It obviously had a sophisticated set of sensors, along with a holographic pilot interface and other such gizmos.

I don't think it's possible to really say that the Prawn technology was similar to Imperial OR Tau tech, in general terms. But that battlesuit in particular did have a pretty Tau feel to it. How was their technology, in general, "much closer" to that of the Imperium?

Firaxin
01-09-2009, 02:37
Was it? Maybe more like a burst cannon in terms of effects. When they had Wikus (or however you spell it) shooting at the pig carcasses, a one-second burst from that thing seemed to put about a hundred holes in that pig. That's a pretty obscene rate of fire, much higher than a heavy bolter seems to have, and the projectiles also seemed to be non-explosive as well. What do you mean by "similar in terms of mechanics", anyhow? Insofar as it was a big gun that apparently fired rocket-assisted bullets? That's pretty broad.
As shown in slow-mo the very first time it was fired (while it was still in the hut), it fires rocket-assisted bullets that explode a micro-second after impact. Hence the hugehuge gushes of blood every time it hit something. It's possible it also had a rate of fire higher than that of a heavy bolter, but that hardly says anything since we don't know the rate of fire of a 'standard' heavy bolter or burst cannon anyways (the only thing we have to go on is they're both heavy/assault 3). And even if it didn't fire mass-reactive bullets, rocket-assisted projectiles are closer to Imperial machine guns than Tau, since a burst cannon accelerates particles (via a system similar to a railgun) into a plasma-like state.


And then it had that lightning gun, seemed kind of Tau-ish.
You mean the railgun? I'll give you that one.


And the mini-missile pods that fired swarms of small homing missiles? Come on.
Multiple Rocket Pod? Ironclad Assault Launchers?


The general shape of the mech might have been somewhat similar to that of a penitent engine, but in terms of it's actual capabilities and level of technological sophistication, it was way closer to a battlesuit.
Why? I didn't see it utilize JSJ. It could run fast and jump high, just like a raging penitent engine or a sentinel.


It obviously had a sophisticated set of sensors,
Pfft, well if you don't think the Imperium has those then there's no point in arguing with you.


along with a holographic pilot interface and other such gizmos.
While holograms might seem cool/futurey and thus in the realm of Tau tech, the only existing evidence that Tau can even produce them is the one pic on page 23 of the current codex. The fluff, in far excess, depicts Imperials using holograms and -graphic interfaces as something extremely common. In any case battlesuits plug into the Tau pilot's brain, and in Kill Team we even have an Imperial who gets inside a battlesuit; both cases support there not being a holographic interface in Tau battlesuits. If anything the mech's interface was most similar to an Astartes HUD system.


But that battlesuit in particular did have a pretty Tau feel to it.
The only thing remotely Tau about it was its railgun, which it seemed to have no trouble moving and firing with, unlike broadsides...

Argastes
01-09-2009, 03:46
As shown in slow-mo the very first time it was fired (while it was still in the hut), it fires rocket-assisted bullets that explode a micro-second after impact. Hence the hugehuge gushes of blood every time it hit something. It's possible it also had a rate of fire higher than that of a heavy bolter, but that hardly says anything since we don't know the rate of fire of a 'standard' heavy bolter or burst cannon anyways (the only thing we have to go on is they're both heavy/assault 3). And even if it didn't fire mass-reactive bullets, rocket-assisted projectiles are closer to Imperial machine guns than Tau, since a burst cannon accelerates particles (via a system similar to a railgun) into a plasma-like state.

I don't remember exploding projectiles; when they were hitting the pig carcass, they seemed clearly non-explosive. You don't need an explosive projectile to make extremely bloody wounds that basically splatter people. Especially if the projectiles are very high-velocity. You're right about pulse weapons though, I guess I forgot they don't fire solid bullets. The gun itself still seemed to have an overall more high-tech, Tauish style.


You mean the railgun? I'll give you that one.

There was a railgun? I'm talking about the weapon that fired arcs of electricity. Seemed more Tauish than anything the Imperium has.


Multiple Rocket Pod? Ironclad Assault Launchers?

They were clearly small guided missiles. Much more similar to a Tau SMS than to multi-tube rocket pods or ironclad assault launchers. Ironclad assault launchers are just simple multi-round grenade launchers, you know. Basically identical to what is fitted to modern tank turrets for the purpose of discharging smoke grenades. They definitely don't fire swarms of homing mini-missiles.


Why? I didn't see it utilize JSJ. It could run fast and jump high, just like a raging penitent engine or a sentinel.

Those things jump around? I've never seen it happen in the fluff. I know the Prawn suit didn't have jumpjets, but it certainly seemed much more agile than I would think that, say, a Sentinel could be.


Pfft, well if you don't think the Imperium has those then there's no point in arguing with you.

Yeah, of course they do. I was talking about penitent engines specifically. What I also sort of meant is that the sensor-cluster on it's face looks rather like that of a Tau battlesuit, definitely not at all like that of anything Imperial.


While holograms might seem cool/futurey and thus in the realm of Tau tech, the only existing evidence that Tau can even produce them is the one pic on page 23 of the current codex. The fluff, in far excess, depicts Imperials using holograms and -graphic interfaces as something extremely common. In any case battlesuits plug into the Tau pilot's brain, and in Kill Team we even have an Imperial who gets inside a battlesuit; both cases support there not being a holographic interface in Tau battlesuits. If anything the mech's interface was most similar to an Astartes HUD system.

Isn't a Marine's "HUD" actually imposed on his visual field via the same mechanism that connects his brain's sensory regions to his suit's autosenses, bypassing his actual eyes? Marine power armor plugs into it's user's brain too, doesn't it? I don't think there is actually a display system in the inside of the helmet that the Marine looks at. Anyhow, I suppose you are right about the holographic stuff, that isn't necessarily distinctive Tauish.


The only thing remotely Tau about it was its railgun, which it seemed to have no trouble moving and firing with, unlike broadsides...

I would say that it's visual style, movement, and weapons were all more Tauish than Imperial. Again, I don't think the suit had a railgun either. It had a very high ROF automatic weapon, a weapon that emitted bolts of electricity, and smart-missile pods. And that gravity-gun thingy, which doesn't seem to match either Tau or Imperial tech very well.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8190/d9suit1.png

Here is a pic of the suit. Looks pretty Tau-like to me. Totally dissimilar to anything Imperial. A big agile battlesuit with a pilot in the torso, running around raising hell with multiple different high-tech guns. Even the details of that automatic weapon on it's arm have a strong Tau vibe.

Firaxin
01-09-2009, 16:51
I don't remember exploding projectiles; when they were hitting the pig carcass, they seemed clearly non-explosive.
I guess we'll just have to wait for the DVD/clips to show up on youtube, because we both remember it our own ways.


I'm talking about the weapon that fired arcs of electricity. Seemed more Tauish than anything the Imperium has.
Seems closest to Necron Gauss tech, or 'nid bio-electricity, or the lightning psychic powers the Imperium is so fond of, or even a Techpriest's Luminen Blast. As with the holographic interface, just because something looks cool and futurey doesn't make it closer to Tau. The only crackling electricity arcs anywhere in Tau fluff is on the Dawnblade or occasionally in the art for Shield Drones/Generators.


They were clearly small guided missiles.
Were they? I seem to recall quite a few impacting nothing in particular (walls, empty vehicles, the ground)...


Much more similar to a Tau SMS than to multi-tube rocket pods or ironclad assault launchers. Ironclad assault launchers are just simple multi-round grenade launchers, you know. Basically identical to what is fitted to modern tank turrets for the purpose of discharging smoke grenades. They definitely don't fire swarms of homing mini-missiles.
I mentioned the first for effect and the second for design ethos.


Those things jump around? I've never seen it happen in the fluff.
I don't know if Penitent Engines can, but Sentinels do (short hops, at least, though as with everything else in the Imperium it probably depends on where it was manufactured). Sentinels are surprisingly agile and fast; they've been likened to ostriches. Desert Raiders has a good depiction of sentinel mobility.


Yeah, of course they do. I was talking about penitent engines specifically. What I also sort of meant is that the sensor-cluster on it's face looks rather like that of a Tau battlesuit, definitely not at all like that of anything Imperial.
The sensor cluster was too narrow and long. It looks like the sensors on the Predator Destructor's turret or above the sponsons of space marine vehicles. The mandibles are definitely nothing Tau-like at all; if anything that's Techpriest-ish or Cthulu-tyranid-ish.


Isn't a Marine's "HUD" actually imposed on his visual field via the same mechanism that connects his brain's sensory regions to his suit's autosenses, bypassing his actual eyes? Marine power armor plugs into it's user's brain too, doesn't it? I don't think there is actually a display system in the inside of the helmet that the Marine looks at.
No. Vehicles operated via MIU (dreadnoughts, titans, etc) plug straight into the pilot's brain as you described. However, a space marine does not plug his brain into his power armor. His nervous system is hooked up to it so that it functions exactly as if it were his skin (minus the pain), but it's not plugged into his head. Hence why space marines can operate power armor without their helmets, hence why helmets can be knocked off so easily (and do often in the fluff), hence why there's a lever they flick with their tongues to change comm channels, etcetcetc. So yes, space marine helmets include a HUD (the amount of information displayed on this HUD varies from BL author to author, however).


And that gravity-gun thingy, which doesn't seem to match either Tau or Imperial tech very well.
The Imperium comes closest with their Graviton gun.


Looks pretty Tau-like to me.
Not really. The exposed pistons/cables in the arms, legs, and shoulders, plus the exposed mechanics on the back, are all strongly Imperial in nature; even the fact that it's head is positioned between its shoulders instead of above them is just like how Imperial titans look. The only thing Tau-ish are the missile pods over the shoulders (which visually correspond to the ironclad assault launchers and many imperial titans), the slabbed chest armor (closest to Eldar, honestly) and the arguable burst cannon. Everything else is closer to Imperial in design and effect.