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Caligula
01-09-2009, 19:51
Well, the time has come. I've got my new army all set, and it should be ready to go in a couple of weeks. I like all my stuff to be painted and absolutely finished before it hits the table, and so I'm not quite there yet. However, I'm insanely pleased with this army as a whole, it's been a lot of fun getting together and such. Here's the list. It's not quite complete as it's currently lacking the addition of most magic items for the characters and Marks for units and characters. I haven't quite decided on all of those yet, so if you have any suggestions in regards to that, they'd be more than welcome. Let me know what you think of the army as a whole. At this point, nothing can really be changed out, as it's more of less built, so I'm more interested in your thoughts on the list as it is, with the added suggestions in regards to Marks and magic items.

Chaos Lord-
Shield
Chaos Steed
Chaos Runesword

Chaos Sorcerer-
Level 2
Chaos Steed

Chaos Sorcerer-
Level 2
Chaos Steed

5 Marauder Horsemen-
Shields
Spears
Musician

5 Marauder Horsemen-
Shields
Flails
Musician

5 Marauder Horsemen-
Shields
Flails
Musician

5 Warhounds

5 Warhounds

5 Chaos Knights-
Musician
Champion
Standard Bearer

5 Chaos Knights-
Musician
Champion
Standard Bearer

Chaos Warshrine

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth-
Additional Hand Weapon

Current Total-1784pts. sans Marks and most magic items

Now, I do have some additional models I could end up putting in as well. I have a Exalted BSB on a Chaos Steed, and 10 more Warhounds, so there's some options there, although I believe the addition of Marks and magic items will pretty much take me to 2000 points.

So, thoughts?

Bauknefer
02-09-2009, 00:31
The warshrine wont be able to keep up with the army so either I would add a unit of 10 chosen with halberds or drop it and get that bsb and the warhounds Make all the cav nurgle or khorne and make the sorcerers nurgle and the lord with khorne or slaneesh imo on the Lord I prefer a balanced approach and I like Runesword and Runeshield but Runesword and Crown of Everlasting Conquest would be good. for the Sorc's I would go caddy with one and book and power familiar with the other steed of shadows is great for launching your combat hero at a unit he can mow into.

Caligula
02-09-2009, 02:27
Great, thanks for the response, Bauknefer, all good advice! I might just do that, end up switching out the Warshrine for the Exalted BSB(he's a killer, to be sure). However, I do kind of like the weird and wacky element that the Warshrine offers. You are right, though, having it keep up with the rest of the army is a bit of an issue, as it only has M4. However, I really only need it to be within 12" of one of my units to allow that unit to get an Eye of the Gods role, and it's ability to give my Knight Champions the Eye of the Gods special rule is without range at all. So, I'm intending on the Warshrine as being a source of "buffing" my units, rather than a combat unit in itself. It might work, we'll see. Not to mention, I really dig how mine looks;)

Thanks muchly for the advice on the magic item and Mark loadouts, as well. As the models have yet to be painted, for the most part, this IS something I can really change up currently and play around with for a short period of time(before they hit the painting table, that is...). I was thinking one unit of Knights with the Mark of Khorne, and the other with the Mark of Nurgle, so your advice seems to comply with my own thoughts there, which is great. However, for the Marauder Horsemen, I was thinking an all-round useful Mark for them would be the Mark of Slaanesh. With that, I can pretty much send them where I please, when I please without worrying about pesky Panic, Fear, and Terror tests. What do you think?

I dig the idea of giving my Lord the Crown of Everlasting Conquest, and again, my thoughts line up with your's, because I had given that some thought before. Doesn't that just make him such a beast?! Wicked, I must say. I can't think of too many Challenges he wouldn't be winning with the Runesword and the Crown, to be honest. And again, I really appreciate the idea of possibly giving him the Mark of Slaanesh, for the same reasons as I stated for the Marauder Horsemen. Chances are he'll be immune to Fear anyway, being plunked in a unit of Chaos Knights, but Terror and Panic still are a pain.

Again, thanks for the advice, Bauknefer, you've been mighty helpful!

Oh, and one other thing I was king of wondering offhandedly, was whether or not this is an army some people would consider overpowered? I only ask because I've been out of the game for a while, and am just now getting back into it all, and just want to see what the general opinion on a force like this is. I'm sure it's powerful, but would some consider it "cheesey"?(I cringe even typing that word, but you know what I'm getting at)

Not that such an opinion(if one where to even exist, I don't know...)would stop me from using this army, which has been beautifully converted and is soon to be beautifully painted, not to mention just oozes character(imho). I'm just puttin' it out there to see what people think. I mean, I see an obvious glaring weakness in a list such as this as I'm sure most would right off the bat, that being a severe lack of numbers. Sure, it hits hard, but it can't really sustain much damage on the way to close combat without losing a lot of its' effectiveness. Also, there's pretty much zero static combat resolution to rely on, so there's that.

Caligula
02-09-2009, 03:19
Also, if I do decide to leave the Warshrine in this list as it is, would you suggest giving it a Mark(and if so, which one?), or just leaving it cheap and unmarked, as it's just being used as a unit-buffer and all around support element?

Bauknefer
02-09-2009, 04:10
If you are going to mark it mark it tzeench and improve its ward save. If you mark the marauder horsemen with slaneesh then it will help it from being an overpowered list and grant you more control... I am really glad that you like my advice. But the problem with the shrine is champions are not going to be able to beat a geared up hero so its not going to make a difference giving them eye of the gods. You get one buff and you can replace that buff for another one... you roll snake eyes or 7 its almost a wasted turn and the 7 pops up alot I use a warshrine how ever I use 10 chosen and a mostly foot slogging list. for your knights I say mark them both nurgle give one the banner of rage and the other festering shroud just for a "surprise!" move haha. Or one nurgle with banner of rage and the other Tzeench with Blasted standard/MoK lol lances are not good either imo. If you like the look of the warshrine then make a secondary list including some foot elements like a foot BSB with 9 chosen with halberds and you have a very tough unit that has 2 EoTG buffs Also if you are not using the warshrine I would drop champions completely to save some points.

Bauknefer
02-09-2009, 04:14
I would also like to see some pictures of the army if you wouldnt mind :) I play WoC and I use an Archaon list I really enjoy so I dont use marks and have a more balanced build. Just Archaon 2 units of 15 Warriors 1 unit of 5 Knights 1 unit of 10 chosen warshrine 10 marauders with flails and 20 warhounds. Warhounds are worth their weight in gold btw and 10 is just not enough. you need a screen for your cav and warhounds are perfect for that if you can use all 20

AussieSocks
02-09-2009, 11:39
shields + flails on the marauder horsemen is a waste

Bigger knight units, or possibly more of them, 2x5 will get shot to pieces. then your left teethless

That shaggoth would benefit more from a great weapon i think.

play an original list dude

Caligula
02-09-2009, 12:32
Play an original list? I'm not sure what you're implying by that, but does such a thing exist? Aren't all lists honestly just variations of different types of list available to be made from an army book? That's rather condescending and not needed, AussieSocks.

Now, your suggestion on giving the Shaggoth a great weapon would be a good one, if I myself didn't want to "play an original" list, and so have had him modelled with two hand weapons instead of the stock great weapon. Thanks for the advice though.

Thank you for one thing, however, as the Shields on the Flail-armed Marauder Horsemen was an oversight on my part. Consider them equipped with Light Armour instead.

Seriously though, an original list? This list is the result of a lot of thinking in regards to what I want to play with, combined with the enemy armies I usually face around here. It's not meant to be optimal, but more a painting and conversion project that happens to be pretty decent on the tabletop as well.

Thanks for the advice, though, AussieSocks, I do appreciate it. Your quip about playing an original list was really made in ignorance, though, and definately not something that's needed here.

Caligula
02-09-2009, 12:34
Bauknefer: Your wish is my command. Pictures of this army will be up in the proper subforum here on Warseer within the next couple of weeks, when it's completed. I don't like putting things up piecemeal for some reason, and want it to be finished before being viewed. So keep an eye out in the Fantasy painting logs, I'll make sure you're notified when it goes up. Thanks again for the advice!

Bauknefer
02-09-2009, 13:29
Dont listen to Aussiesocks about your army. a lot of people do play all cav lists but they are all khorne marked and none use a shaggoth which I like the flavor of but cant fit into my army. Now what have you decided on with that shrine? and the lores on the sorcerers?

Caligula
02-09-2009, 14:00
Thanks, Bauknefer. Yeah, I don't plan on having much, if any Khorne-marked units in my army really. I mean, Chaos Knights are still Chaos Knights without any Mark at all, and can still do the business. I think I will plan on giving one unit of them the Mark of Nurgle, however. As for the Warshrine, for now I think I'm keepin' it in there, but, as per your advice on which Mark to give it, I'm definately giving it the Mark of Tzeentch. That plus one to the Ward save is just awesome, giving it a total 3+ Ward save. Awesome.

As for the Sorcerers, I think I'm gonna give one of them the Mark of Nurgle, a Power Familiar, and possibly the Book of Secrets. The other I might leave unmarked and give the Infernal Puppet. Or, I might possibly give him the Mark of Tzeentch, because I really dig that Lore. If he gets the Mark of Tzeentch, I'll probably end up giving him a Talisman of Protection too, points permitting, so he has a 5+ Ward save, which isn't bad combined with the protection from his mount and Chaos Armour.

What do you think?

Bauknefer
03-09-2009, 10:20
I am not a fan of the talisman it is too expensive for what it is. tzeench lore is awesome imo. But for 15 points for 5+ ward save... Its cheap. But I would give the tzeench sorc the book and the power familiar because of +1 to cast and I would make the nurgle sorc a scroll caddy because your magic defense isn't so hot. but if you think you can handle it for a couple rounds then do what you were planning and forget what I say about magic defense. There are a couple different forms of magic defense. I use the run foreword and kill them before they kill me magic defense haha. There is also an active magic defense with dispel dice and you can also spam magic resist.

Caligula
03-09-2009, 16:58
Thanks again ,Bauknefer, that all makes sense. I do believe I plan on using the "run forward and kill them before they hurt me too much" line of magic defense for the most part, as I usually don't like to even run Dispel Scrolls for some reason, although it's something I might try and get over and include every now and then. Seeing as one of my main opponents is a pretty saavy Vampire Count, then a Dispel Scroll or two might be exactly what I need to even things up for a round or two before I can start the killing(or in the case of the undead, re-killing).

Bauknefer
03-09-2009, 21:14
Lol I have 2 main opponents one is VC the other is Ork and Goblins I have tons of fun. Vampire Counts can spam spells really easy so you need a magic defense to stop it all but if you are not going magic heavy just take alot of stuff that can break face and use tons of MoS

Bauknefer
03-09-2009, 21:16
And I would add the BSB and the warhounds they will help more then you can imagine

Caligula
04-09-2009, 02:00
Yeah, in regards to the BSB and the additional Hounds, I do think I'm going to end up squeezing them in the 2000 point list...somehow. I'm really strecthed for points as it is, considering all the Marks and magic items and such. I'm honestly thinking of cutting down on Marks, starting with, believe it or not, the Chaos Knights. I figure as much as tooling them out with killer Marks is beneficial and all, they're still Chaos Knights without them. If there's anything in the army that can still do what they're supposed to, and do it very well, it's gotta be the Knights. So, I figure I can get away without Marking them.

I've got to keep the Mark of Slaanesh on the Horsemen, I figure. It just makes them so worry-free. Fast Cavalry that's immune to Fear, Terror, and Panic is just incredible in my mind, and it's something I think is truly worth the 30 points for Marking all three units I have of them. A couple other Marks here and there, and that's it. I almost feel as though I really don't need to even Mark my Lord. He travels with a Fear-causing unit(Chaos Knights), and has a good Ld for any other tests he may have to make. Also, he's armed(most likely)with the Chaos Runesword, so he's already an unholy terror of a killing machine. So, some points could be saved by leaving him unmarked.

I think I'll leave one of my Sorcerers unmarked as well to save on points, and it's not like the Lores of Fire or Death are that shabby, either. Chances are the other Sorcerer will either be Marked with Tzeentch or Nurgle, however.

So, hopefully by saving some points on Marks, I can at the very least, afford to add some more Hounds into the mix. I'm re-writing the list now, so I'll see what I can do!

Caligula
04-09-2009, 02:23
So, with some tinkering and sacrifices, I made enough room for another unit of Warhounds. Meh, I was hoping to be able to squeeze out a little more space, but some is better than none. Here's the list as it stands, Marks, magical items, and all. Let me know what you think.

Chaos Lord-
Shield
Chaos Steed
Chaos Runesword

Chaos Sorcerer-
Level 2
Mark of Tzeentch
Chaos Steed
Power Familiar
Book of Secrets

Chaos Sorcerer-
Level 2
Chaos Steed
Conjoined Homonculus
Blasphemous Amulet

5 Chaos Warhounds

5 Chaos Warhounds

5 Chaos Warhounds

5 Marauder Horsemen-
Mark of Slaanesh
Shields
Spears
Musician

5 Marauder Horsemen-
Mark of Slaanesh
Light Armour
Flails
Musician

5 Marauder Horsemen-
Mark of Slaanesh
Light Armour
Flails
Musician

5 Chaos Knights-
Musician
Champion
Standard Bearer
Rapturous Standard

5 Chaos Knights-
Musician
Champion
Standard Bearer

Chaos Warshrine-
Mark of Tzeentch

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth-
Additional Hand Weapon

TOTAL-1999pts.

Bauknefer
04-09-2009, 02:24
Show me your list and ill help you slim it down?

Caligula
04-09-2009, 02:25
I think you must have read my mind, Bauknefer...weird;) But there it is, right above your last post.

To be honest, as the list stands now, I quite like it. It's got some neat stuff in it, and isn't overly Marked, which is interesting. Yeah, I actually like it a lot.

Bauknefer
04-09-2009, 02:27
if you are only using 50 pts of magic items drop him to an exalted hero lol it will save you 100pts drop the blasphemous amulet and the champions for the chaos knights that will save you enough to get that bsb =D the champions are 20 pts for just another attack thats not really worth it imo

Caligula
04-09-2009, 02:35
Hmmm, that might be just the idea, Bauknefer, thanks a lot! The only thing about the Knight Champions is, on the off chance they kill an enemy character in a challenge, they'll get to benefit from the Eye of the Gods, thanks to the Warshrine. Now, I know that's a long shot, and very rarely likely to happen, but it's something neat. I might do as you suggest anyway, though, as it honestly seems like excellent advice.

Thanks again!

Bauknefer
04-09-2009, 02:37
also changing the spears for flails may be a good idea as well. but that is a modeling issue. just put the spearmen against the weaker toughness opponents and you will do fine.

Bauknefer
04-09-2009, 02:39
Lol I tried champions against hero level characters... chosen champion with halberd and 4 attacks at str 6 couldnt do it so I stopped trying lol

Caligula
04-09-2009, 02:41
Right on, that sounds like a good call, Bauknefer. I like the variety that the Spear-armed Horsemen give me, so I'll just have to make sure they attack the proper units and such.

Now, in regards to the list I just posted, despite the fact that it's not perfect and could obviously use a few changes, is it really all that bad? I kind of really like it for a few reasons, I wouldn't mind playing it as it is, despite its' several flaws. I'm just wondering if despite all that, it's a decent list none the less?

Caligula
04-09-2009, 02:42
I like that it has a few non-standard things in it, as it adds variety and some "fresh air" to the whole thing, which is something I really like to give myself, and my opponents. Thoughts?

Bauknefer
04-09-2009, 02:50
It would be fun. And I like it. Add the BSB and you will be gold and ready for the VC :) good luck!

Caligula
04-09-2009, 02:52
Thanks a bunch, once again, Bauknefer, I'll do that! Yeah, not to mention the BSB model that's being worked on is out of this world awesome, so I'm for sure going to end up making the room for him. Dropping the Lord to an Exalted and few other tweeks should do it.

AussieSocks
04-09-2009, 10:03
Here's you list:

Chaos Lord-
Shield
Chaos Steed
Chaos Runesword

Chaos Sorcerer-
Level 2
Mark of Tzeentch
Chaos Steed
Power Familiar
Book of Secrets

Chaos Sorcerer-
Level 2
Chaos Steed
Conjoined Homonculus
Blasphemous Amulet

5 Chaos Warhounds

5 Chaos Warhounds

5 Chaos Warhounds

5 Marauder Horsemen-
Mark of Slaanesh
Shields
Spears
Musician

5 Marauder Horsemen-
Mark of Slaanesh
Light Armour
Flails
Musician

5 Marauder Horsemen-
Mark of Slaanesh
Light Armour
Flails
Musician

5 Chaos Knights-
Musician
Champion
Standard Bearer
Rapturous Standard

5 Chaos Knights-
Musician
Champion
Standard Bearer

Chaos Warshrine-
Mark of Tzeentch

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth-
Additional Hand Weapon

2 Tz Sorcs, 1 flavourful model (shaggoth), knights + marauder horse + dogs

here's evilchaosdoom's list

Exalted Hero of Tzeentch with Enchanted Shield, Steed and Collar of Khorne: 176 pts
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch with disc,flail Enchanted Shield hand weapon golden eye of tzeentch: 188 pts
Exalted Hero BSB Shield and Fury of the Blood God : 176 pts
Chaos Sorcerer with Steed, 2x Scrolls: 151 pts


5 Marauders Horsemen with flail: 70 pts
5 Marauders Horsemen with flail: 70 pts
5 Marauders Horsemen with flail: 70 pts
5 Chaos Warhounds: 30 pts
5 Chaos Warhounds: 30 pts


Sledgehammer:
5 Chaos Knights with Musician, Standard Bearer and Banner of Rage: 265 pts [General hero here]
Anvil:
5 Chaos Knights with Musician, Standard Bearer and War Banner: 255 pts [BSB here]
Mage Bunker:
5 Chaos Knights:with Musician, Standard Bearer War Banner and champion 275pts [Sorcerer. here]
Tin Can Openers:
3 Dragon Ogres with Great W.: 231 pts

tz characters, 1 flavourful unit, horsemen, knights + dogs.

i generally wasn't attacking you, i'm sorry if i sounded blunt.

my first WOC list was =

khorne lord
slaanesh sorc
3x horsemen
3x dogs
3x knights
shaggoth

but calling me ignorant is probably not the right move, i think you know it too.

Bauknefer
04-09-2009, 15:47
But telling him to use an original list when he made his decision on his list before he brought it to warseer was not the right move either aussiesocks so just drop it. WoC doesnt have much variety when it comes to being competitive there is the all cav and magic heavy. that is all there is for tournaments so those will be the popular choices not to mention that evilchaosdooms list is illegal

Caligula
04-09-2009, 17:01
AussieSocks: If I called you personally ignorant, then I apologize. Honestly, there's no need for that at all here, especially when all we're really discussing is a game. However, I'm pretty sure I said your post was ignorant. Look, either way, it's no big deal. I don't mind people being blunt,in fact I like it. So, no harm done, and I appreciate the honesty and the responses. Hey, we're all big boys now, we can take it, ya?;) Honestly, it's mostly my fault for taking it as a personal attack rather than just your opinion. So yeah, no need to be enemies or anything, just a misunderstanding, and I can see what you're saying now. I've been out of online community for the most part a while now, and have very little idea of what most other people are doing with their lists nowadays, but from what you've posted I can totally see where you're coming from.

Thanks as always, Bauknefer, for being in my corner, and all the great help you've given me!

Bauknefer
04-09-2009, 17:33
Course I got your back haha i will be personally happy or sad if you win or lose with all the advice and going back and forth with the posts I feel like I have taken you under my wing even if you are a better/more experienced player WoC was my first warhammer army and I have had tons of fun with them and I have built a competitive list as well I also remembered that having a bsb against VC wont help too much except for combat res and Combat potential the re roll break tests wont do too much because you will auto break. take as much stuff that is immune to fear as you can so MoS will be your friend. And it is cheap. Now for the sorc's do not give them MoS because the slaneesh lore is horrible against undead fire and nurgle will be your friend