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Archeantus
02-09-2009, 19:54
Greetings,
Hope this is the right forum for this question.
I'm doing a t-shirt design and i need a rundown of all of the weapon options available to space marine terminators. So far I have:
storm bolter, power fist, chain fist, thunder hammer w shield, cyclone launcher, lightning claws, power sword, heavy flamer, assault cannon.
I'm not sure if they have access to the rest of the heavy weapons. Can someone help me out?

Shrapnel
02-09-2009, 19:58
apart from combi-flamer -melta and -plasma available to Terminator-clad characters, you've got everything there

Raibaru
02-09-2009, 20:58
Lightning claws, stormbolter with powerfist, and recently the hammer/shield are probably the most iconic terminator weapons you see in images and stories.

khorne808
02-09-2009, 21:51
well are you going to have IC's waepons aswell?
if you do then your going to have a big shirt :D

grey knights: incinerator,pycannon(think i spelled those wrong)

BigBadBull
02-09-2009, 22:05
GK Termies Nemesis Force weapon ( AKA Halberd/ pole arm/ lance)

Chaos termies /pre heresy have Power mauls

TheEndIsHere
02-09-2009, 22:06
well are you going to have IC's waepons aswell?
if you do then your going to have a big shirt :D

grey knights: incinerator,pycannon(think i spelled those wrong)

ITS PIECANNON! thankyouverymuch

Psycannon and invinerator.

They also have Nemesis force halberds

Are you thinking SM only, loyalist SM (adding GK), chaos (they have combi-bolters too) or all 3?

D-End

ARGH NINJA'ed by TAUObama

Urath
02-09-2009, 22:38
Loyalist: Power Fist, Chain Fist, Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Storm Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Cyclone Missle Launcher.

Grey Knight: Nemesis Force Weapon, Storm Bolter, Psycannon, Incinerator, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield.

Chaos: Power Fist, Chain-Fist, Lightning Claws, Power Weapon, Combi-bolter, Combi-flamer, Combi-plasma, Combi-melta, Reaper-Autocannon, Heavy Flamer.

Thats what I can remember atm.

trolly
02-09-2009, 22:58
hi,

i wanna ask.
if we want to make scratch build a vehicle or sclupt minis base on GW own model we always get stuck on IP problem.
is it okay to make t-shirt design?

cheers,
:D

StormWulfen
02-09-2009, 23:11
Chaos: Power Fist, Power Weapon, Combi-bolter, Combi-flamer, Combi-plasma, Combi-melta, Reaper-Autocannon, Heavy Flamer.

lightning claws, chainfist;)

Urath
02-09-2009, 23:19
Ah yes, thanks Wulfen.

Bunnahabhain
03-09-2009, 00:45
Also characters weapons, so force weapons of assorted types for librarians, and the croseus for chaplains, Not sure if that's a current option, or just past codexs,

DEADMARSH
03-09-2009, 01:23
hi,

i wanna ask.
if we want to make scratch build a vehicle or sclupt minis base on GW own model we always get stuck on IP problem.
is it okay to make t-shirt design?

cheers,
:D

GW allegedly goes after tattoo artists who ink people with 40k designs.

What do you think?

(Of course not)

Spacker
03-09-2009, 01:34
hi,

i wanna ask.
if we want to make scratch build a vehicle or sclupt minis base on GW own model we always get stuck on IP problem.
is it okay to make t-shirt design?

cheers,
:D


You could just read the Legal page at GW (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4#):



T-shirts, Clothes, Tatoos and the Like

As always, we cannot allow third parties to obtain money from our intellectual property.

This effectively means that you would either have to buy Games Workshop T-shirts or clothes or make them yourself. You would not be able to sell any t-shirts or clothes that you make.

This also means that we cannot allow tattoos as an acceptable use of our IP as a third party necessarily has to perform the "service."


So yes, you can make a T-shirt for yourself - but you could not, for instance, create a T-shirt design using GW IP and have a company such as Spreadshirt or Cafe Press (these are also explicitly disallowed under the section "Cafe Press" which prohibits the use of Cafe Press or any similar sites to make products based on GW IP, even if you're not selling them), or any other person or company that you would pay for the service, print it for you though, as that would be having a third party obtaining money from GW IP.

The reason given for the tattoo ban is that it would be practically impossible for a person to tattoo themselves (but if they did, that's ok), but in the context of the rest of the section would also allow a tattoo so long as the recipient did not pay for the tattoo; however, while I have a cousin who would be happy to tattoo me free of charge, I'm not inclined to have GW IP permanently marked on my skin (I'm not opposed to getting tattooed though, I've already got one and I'm itching to have more done :p)

wolf40k
03-09-2009, 02:47
Just thought that I should mention the squats in termie armor were armed with spears and bolt pistols. :angel:

JHZ
03-09-2009, 02:57
The reason given for the tattoo ban is that it would be practically impossible for a person to tattoo themselves (but if they did, that's ok), but in the context of the rest of the section would also allow a tattoo so long as the recipient did not pay for the tattoo; however, while I have a cousin who would be happy to tattoo me free of charge, I'm not inclined to have GW IP permanently marked on my skin (I'm not opposed to getting tattooed though, I've already got one and I'm itching to have more done :p)
Only way GW is gonna get my tats off, is with a bunch of thugs and a cheese shredder.

starlight
03-09-2009, 02:58
I'm doing a t-shirt design

How do you propose to deal with GW's IP/legal department...?


hi,

i wanna ask.
if we want to make scratch build a vehicle or sclupt minis base on GW own model we always get stuck on IP problem.
is it okay to make t-shirt design?

cheers,
:D

Gold star - it isn't okay.

Although you *don't* get in trouble for scratch-building/etc models using GW imagery. What causes problems is when you cast or distribute them.


GW allegedly goes after tattoo artists who ink people with 40k designs.

What do you think?

(Of course not)

Another gold star. :)


You could just read the Legal page at GW (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4#): (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4#%29:)



So yes, you can make a T-shirt for yourself - but you could not, for instance, create a T-shirt design using GW IP and have a company such as Spreadshirt or Cafe Press (these are also explicitly disallowed under the section "Cafe Press" which prohibits the use of Cafe Press or any similar sites to make products based on GW IP, even if you're not selling them), or any other person or company that you would pay for the service, print it for you though, as that would be having a third party obtaining money from GW IP.

The reason given for the tattoo ban is that it would be practically impossible for a person to tattoo themselves (but if they did, that's ok), but in the context of the rest of the section would also allow a tattoo so long as the recipient did not pay for the tattoo; however, while I have a cousin who would be happy to tattoo me free of charge, I'm not inclined to have GW IP permanently marked on my skin (I'm not opposed to getting tattooed though, I've already got one and I'm itching to have more done :p)

Two gold stars for Spacker for that excellent summation. :D


Only way GW is gonna get my tats off, is with a bunch of thugs and a cheese shredder.

They don't care about the tattoo, they care that the artist made money off tattooing their imagery/IP and they didn't get a piece of the pie. *That's* the issue.

In short, if you pay someone to do the work, they are benefiting from GW's IP without permission, thus it's a no-no. If you do all the work yourself and don't distribute it, you're likely okay...

Cervantes3773
03-09-2009, 03:11
Although you *don't* get in trouble for scratch-building/etc models using GW imagery. What causes problems is when you cast or distribute them.

Last I checked, you could cast your own models, you just couldn't sell them. Is this correct?

starlight
03-09-2009, 03:13
As long as the castings are of your own design, you're fine. If you're re-casting GW models...not so much... :(

JHZ
03-09-2009, 03:20
They don't care about the tattoo, they care that the artist made money off tattooing their imagery/IP and they didn't get a piece of the pie. *That's* the issue.

In short, if you pay someone to do the work, they are benefiting from GW's IP without permission, thus it's a no-no.
Don't know if it's a regional thing or something, but I remember a talk along the same lines about using someone's IP to make tattoos, and if I'm not mistaken, it went so that you can have pretty much anything tattooed, but the tattoo artist cannot sell said tattoos ("git yer 40K tats right here!") nor post pictures of said works. So if I show up with a picture I want to tattoo on my body and he does it, then it should be legal, but he can't like use a picture of said tattoo as a promotional item, offer such tattoos to people or anything like that. Again, might differ by region, but so I've been told.

If it is so, then it's once again the case of GW making up their own rules. Like the whole "only GW bitz on GW models" stuff, which these days makes kids go "3rd party bitz on a GW model? You cheat, I'm not playing you if you can't play fair!"


If you do all the work yourself and don't distribute it, you're likely okay...
There goes my dreams of turning my tattoos into a human flesh lamp shade once I die...

starlight
03-09-2009, 03:26
It's not a regional thing. Using GW's (or anyone's) IP without permission and gaining/profiting from it is a violation of the IP owner's rights.

If you show up and want a tattoo artist to copy a design you give them, it is their legal responsibility to ensure you have the right to do so. Most don't and claim ignorance, but it doesn't change the fact that they are violating GW's (or whoever the owner is) IP.

Cervantes3773
03-09-2009, 03:43
I think it's also important to point out that you have to really cause some damages for GW to want to sue you for IP infringement. If you're casting old Rogue Trader marines for personal use, GW will probably never find out (or care if they do). But if you're casting the entire Cadian PDF, GW will probably say "hey, you did that illegal and we can quantify the damages to the tune of $XX,XXX. Pay up for feel the wrath of the Emperor!".

In the mean time, be aware of the chilling effect. I'm certainly not accusing GW of using it, but many companies will loudly proclaim that you shouldn't do something, or that you (generally) can't do something and follow those claims with the veiled threat of legal action if you continue to do so. These companies usually don't have a leg to stand on, but their legal budget is larger than yours, so they "encourage" you to stop whatever it is (even if it was originally legal).

A prime example of this is when someone makes a customer service complaint and receives a rude response. They publish the response on their website and say "hey, WTF is this guy's problem?". The company then responds with a Cease & Desist letter saying "keep that crap up and we'll sue ya!" even though the person is not doing anything wrong.

JHZ
03-09-2009, 04:51
It's not a regional thing. Using GW's (or anyone's) IP without permission and gaining/profiting from it is a violation of the IP owner's rights.

If you show up and want a tattoo artist to copy a design you give them, it is their legal responsibility to ensure you have the right to do so. Most don't and claim ignorance, but it doesn't change the fact that they are violating GW's (or whoever the owner is) IP.
I'm not gonna start an argument on anything, but there are exceptions out there that can be used to defend the use or copyright material, even when done for profit. For exsample, someone can do a parody of a movie scene and even get paid to do it, and still be in the clear. It has never stopped them from being sued, but such cases don't always bare fruit.

starlight
03-09-2009, 04:54
There are specific exemptions in law for parody and satire, however no such exemptions exist for someone reproducing IP for profit (ie tattoos/t-shirts/etc) without some form of personal interpretation (the parody or satire is the interpretation).

And GW is known for making use of the *chilling effect*.

JHZ
03-09-2009, 06:29
There are specific exemptions in law for parody and satire, however no such exemptions exist for someone reproducing IP for profit (ie tattoos/t-shirts/etc) without some form of personal interpretation (the parody or satire is the interpretation).
Fair Use covers far more than parody and satire, such as educational material, research, etc. If a professor has his assistant copy a bunch of pages from a book to distribute them among his students for the class, is he not copying copywritten material and is the assistant not paid to copy it, as it's part of his job?

Hell, if nothing else, have that t-shirt printed terminator without pants and give it some fun text like "+2 balls of steel" (doesn't make sense, but t-shirts rarely do), and I'm pretty sure it crosses over to parody land. Or how about a terminator with half of its helmet blown off saying "I'll be back."

But in the end, it's up for the court to decide, no matter how much GW spits and curses.

Egaeus
03-09-2009, 08:43
It has never stopped them from being sued, but such cases don't always bare fruit.

Oh no! Naked bannanas! :eek:
(Sorry, that just made me laugh...)

Obviously while taking legal advice from "doods on the interwebs" is rarely a good idea...it doesn't seem likely that they would really go after people unless they were actually doing something to "harm" GW...I understand the necessity of protecting one's IP, but I just don't seem them setting up stations to get inked at their stores...although this could be part of the "GW experience" :D (OK, so that's not the main topic here, but still).

The Marshel
03-09-2009, 11:52
hey, what do yu guys recon about recasting things like legs usig soley green stuff

like u make the mold out of green stuff, and make ur own legs using green stuff, like you would for certain hard to get weapons like combi meltas

assuming you dont distribute of course

starlight
03-09-2009, 16:05
Fair Use covers far more than parody and satire, such as educational material, research, etc. If a professor has his assistant copy a bunch of pages from a book to distribute them among his students for the class, is he not copying copywritten material and is the assistant not paid to copy it, as it's part of his job?

Actually all the material I've seen used in this manner at Uni recently has had the appropriate permissions and such right in the handouts...

JHZ
03-09-2009, 16:24
Actually all the material I've seen used in this manner at Uni recently has had the appropriate permissions and such right in the handouts...
Nothing says you can't ask or give permission, since it always clears up any problems that might arise from the use of copywritten material in such a way, but even in cases where the copywrite holder tells you to cease and desist, the law is to protect the use of said materian in that way. The holders can't make up their own rules, claiming that any use of their product in any way related to fair use is to be considered illegal.

In other words, people should check out the law books, not GW's own oppinion on IP and such, since, as you said it, they're just trying to scare you, because it's cheaper than constantly monitoring every little thing around the world.

My mother has been an art teacher for 30 years and she constantly scans books and picks up stuff from the internets to use as material in her class without ever asking no one for permission, and no one has ever said anything against it.


EDIT:
This is a little far fetched, I know, but I'm also reminded of a few cases of GW dickery, namely Damnatus and that guy who was gonna make resin titans. For one, GW only denied the people the right to distribute said products. They never sued anyone for copying their designs or getting paid to do so (the guy who made the titan prototypes wasted a good deal of money on that, so someone got paid for copying GW IP).

And what if I take a codex to a copy shop to make a copy of it that I can carry around with me to places without the fear of breaking or having my codex stolen? Am I not paying somone money to copy GW IP? Or what if I commission someone to do me a badass sculpt of a Marine. There's tons of people out there doing something like that and even advertising it ("I can sculpt you anything you want."), but I don't remember GW cracking down on them either for copying their IP for a client. Then again, when someone makes a bunch of said models and starts selling them out by the bunch over the internet, then GW gets worked up (I remember someone making like a few hundred white metal Emperors that they were selling on eBay, naturally nothing indicating it was intended as a 40K model, but you could tell it was the Emperor).

So, legal or illegal, I somehow don't see GW coming to your door or to the door of the tattoo artist for inking you up, as long as the guy doesn't start adverting that he does 40K tats and showing off his designs.

KroSha
03-09-2009, 16:41
One thing to take note of is that the UK doesn't have a "Fair Use" proviso on copyright infringement. Technically, if you buy a CD, rip it to your PC and then load it on your iPod to listen to, you're committing an offense. So GW has a lot of ammo to discourage anyone from copying their work, or from profiting from it in any way.

Thus if it's recognisably GW in origin, even if you've altered it, they're going to object. The only place they don't mind too much is sculting / converting for games, as long as it's a one-off. For example, they don't go for painters who sell characters or units, or even painted up armies. You can bet they'll go for anyone selling cast-offs.

Archeantus
09-09-2009, 23:12
Wow. Question answered and then some. Thanks for the input.
If i were to distribute this (which i'm not) my design has danced all around their intellectual property and I wouldn't have a problem with selling it.
For example (my real design is much better): If i made a shirt that says "For the Emperor" and put a pic of a fat, stubby gun on the shirt there is nothing they can do about that. They could try.

starlight
09-09-2009, 23:57
Wow. Question answered and then some. Thanks for the input.
If i were to distribute this (which i'm not) my design has danced all around their intellectual property and I wouldn't have a problem with selling it.
For example (my real design is much better): If i made a shirt that says "For the Emperor" and put a pic of a fat, stubby gun on the shirt there is nothing they can do about that. They could try.


That is your *opinion* not legal fact and is a bad place to start a conversation...especially since the conversation will be one involving lawyers at hundreds of dollars an hour...

The only person who will make the determination about *what they can do* or not is a judge. Hopefully you have enough money to survive the lawsuit GW is quite capable of bringing...although they usually get their way after siccing their legal department on people (including anyone you involve in the production of said shirts...).

Archeantus
10-09-2009, 00:23
OK. Thanks everybody!
If the GW police want to come over my place and confiscate my screen printer and the little terminator-ish shirts that my daughter's Build-A-Bear plush animals are now, at this moment, wearing then you can go ahead and send them on over. They can even cuff the teddy bears if they feel the need. Toodles!