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R Man
03-09-2009, 11:37
I've decided I'm going to collect data on unit performance, starting with familiar territory the flash Knight Errant.

I want to hear about the use of Knights Errant. How you used them and what the battlefield conditions were like. Tell me if they were a success or a failure and what your opinion of them is?

I would also like to hear about those who have found Knights Errant amongst their enemies and what you did about them. Did you rate them as a threat and how did you think they fought?

Tell the tale, tell it well and true! Don't be afraid to give opinions and detail!

Malorian
03-09-2009, 12:37
There is only 1 magic banner for them so I only ever take 1 unit as I don't like the risk of being baited.

Since they are ItP when they charge (and pack a big punch) I've found them very useful for taking on fear causing units or even terror causing monsters.

Of course some times they fluff their attacks but that is true for every unit.

I think every bret army should have unit of these 8-12 strong.

iaguz
03-09-2009, 13:27
The other thing you can do with 'em is take really small naked units and use them as either charge assists, as a unit of KotR doesn't impact quite like it used to, and to clear small pesky bastard units out of the way. I'm not a bret player so I cannot really tell you how successful that is though.

Garviel
03-09-2009, 13:35
I pretty much always have a unit of 9 with FC and the errantry banner in any list over 1500pts.

Sure the banner makes them minus 1 on ld but the 8 x s6 attacks make up for it when you charge, plus 2 ranks and banner gives useful cr :p

This one unit has killed a moon dragon, a stegadon and owned some blood knights.

However if the charge doesnt do it they crumble - fast :(

GuyLeCheval
03-09-2009, 18:41
They are as strong as knights of the inner circle, which is very funny...

They are indeed a must. Especially against ogres and undead...

Ozorik
03-09-2009, 18:47
I have only played against them once recently. Due to terrain and positioning they were forced to charge my Dragon slayer who challenged their champ and then proceeded to kill the entire unit.

Their charge is nasty but if you can survive it they are not scary.

Malorian
03-09-2009, 18:58
Their charge is nasty but if you can survive it they are not scary.

You just described the entire Bretonnian army ;):p

R Man
04-09-2009, 01:32
Some interesting stuff. If there is any particular incidents of either fights with or against KE I would like to hear about that. Especially involving the effect of supporting units from both sides.

david404
04-09-2009, 07:32
lest week I hed a fight aginst HE.
I use a unit of 6 KE as suport aginst flenk charges. in this combat they meneged to charge a star dragon in his flank after he charged my GK.
the KE meneged to kill the HE lord (he suferd before one Wound) and by doing so the dragon run awey

R Man
04-09-2009, 22:51
I don't think well get much more out of this so onto my next question:

What would make you choose KE over Say Knights of the Realm, or even Grail Knights?

Freman Bloodglaive
04-09-2009, 23:03
The coolness factor...

I don't have any myself (not an Empire option) but I'm tempted to pick up a set. Knights Errant as regular knights and Knights of the Realm as Inner Circle.

Bretonnian Lord
05-09-2009, 00:23
I don't think well get much more out of this so onto my next question:

What would make you choose KE over Say Knights of the Realm, or even Grail Knights?

Not only are KE ridiculously cheap for a knight unit, they can get a 25 pt banner that gives them Str 6 on the charge AND they're immune to psych on the charge. Although LD 8 is decent, I find that often times Knights of the Realm will falter at charging a fear causing enemy. Cue in the Errants. If you absolutely need to take out a fear causing enemy, Knights Errant are the cheapest and (imo) best option to do so.

The cheap cost of the Errants also make them good for a Paladin to join. Not only does the Paladin provide that crucial LD 8 to the knights, he adds a lot of extra staying power to the unit as a whole. Plus, if you've tooled out the Paladin to kill enemy heroes, the Knights Errant (with their immune to psych on the charge) make a good missile-delivery-system against any enemy hero hiding inside a unit of fear causers.

Grail Knights, while nice and powerful, are too expensive to field in large numbers. Most 2,000 pt games will have only 1 unit of six Grail Knights, max. If you're fighting a terror/fear causing army, Knights Errant can act as "mini" Grail Knights.

Knights of the Realm (IMO) are the bread and butter of a Bretonnian army, but a unit or two of Knights Errant is almost never a bad choice. You can use them as supporting units (squads of six to hit enemy flanks) or as a shock cavalry unit to surprise enemies that hide behind their fear causing abilities.

Just be careful of their LD 7 and Impetuous rule. It's easy for an experienced opponent to bait the Errants into charging bad targets at bad times, so make sure you deploy them carefully. Especially if you have a Paladin in the unit, because if the Knights Errant bolt after a Great Eagle, he's taken along for the ride as well.

Shiodome
05-09-2009, 03:45
they're a good unit, but don't under estimate how much their ld7 can screw you over. they're not a unit to go off and do things on their own, as they're not terribly hard to panic and being knights can cause panic tests in a lot of other stuff... none of which have stellar leadership. not saying they suck as they don't, just something to bear in mind. i.e give em a character or keep near general.

ewar
05-09-2009, 17:36
I don't think well get much more out of this so onto my next question:

What would make you choose KE over Say Knights of the Realm, or even Grail Knights?

My knight errants are the star performers of my GT bretonnian list. Seriously, they're better than Realm in virtually every situation and more cost effective.

I run a lance of 9 with obligatory erranty banner led by BSB Paladin of Combat Res Doom (TM) - these guys have held the line in the face of terrible odds (flank charged by wood elf dragon, another time by 2 Scar Vets and Salamanders under the old book).

The trick to using Errants well is to place them confidently with the intention of getting the correct charge - i.e. they can't be baited because you've declared the charge before having to test to restrain.

Also, at only 20pts per model, they're frankly amazing value - I will often bring 6 plain errants as combi chargers for only 120pts.

I also can't overstate how important the ItP charge is - considering the amount of fear causing stuff in the metagame these days, the number of times my Realm choke it at the crucial turn is ridiculous!

Anyway, I've probably gone on too long, I just love knights errant :)

selone
06-09-2009, 12:03
I think they're great. How can you not like 20 pt each, ignore fear on the charge, lance able to use knights?

Amlesh
06-09-2009, 13:25
When I'm fighting against Brets (I don't often, only in tournaments), I usually go after the Grail Knights and KotR before the Knights Errant. I consider them more of a threat (Grail because they hit harder, Realm because they often have a character) and Errants can always be baited.

Regardless of what they are, though, Spirit of the Forge cooks Knights all the same.

Alathir
06-09-2009, 15:22
They are a fantastic unit and I often take a unit of 8 led by a Paladin in most games, however, some people say their low leadership is their biggest weakness but the real bane of Knights Errant is their Weapon Skill 3, hitting on 4's can seriously blunt any knightly charge which is one reason I take Knights of the Realm over their younger counterparts.

Against undead however, Knights Errant are my focus, with most undead blocks possessing weapon skill 2 or lower, they are a much better choice than Knights of the Realm.

ewar
06-09-2009, 17:12
They are a fantastic unit and I often take a unit of 8 led by a Paladin in most games, however, some people say their low leadership is their biggest weakness but the real bane of Knights Errant is their Weapon Skill 3, hitting on 4's can seriously blunt any knightly charge which is one reason I take Knights of the Realm over their younger counterparts.

Against undead however, Knights Errant are my focus, with most undead blocks possessing weapon skill 2 or lower, they are a much better choice than Knights of the Realm.

Don't you find that most enemies you're charging with lances generally have WS4 though?

I think most targets for Bretonnian lances will be WS4 or higher (generally the elite units of most armies), in which case it makes no difference whether your knights are WS 3 or 4 themselves.

If they're charging a WS3 enemy, they (the target) are generally not going to be strong enough to withstand a lance charge anyway, so it makes no difference to the outcome.

Thats my experience though, maybe if you fight a lot of skaven or OnG it may be different.

R Man
07-09-2009, 11:39
See, this is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to know about. Why KE over KOTR? Why KOTR over KE?

Now, Is it a metagame effect? If, say, fear was less prevalent or less dangerous, would that tip the favour back to KOTR?

jayzerus
08-09-2009, 16:49
I (almost) always take 3 units of 6 Knights Errant. I typically line them up on the flanks to take out the enemy warmachines, which, in most cases, are focused on the Knights of the Realm or Grail Knights, as Amlesh said. When that is allowed to happen, the warmachines are typically gone by round 3 - 6 WS3 S5 attacks plus 5 WS3 S3 attacks usually means a dead warmachine crew.

Also, don't underestimate their ability to come across the flank - and quickly. They have a 16" march / charge, and they can remove rank bonuses and add the flank bonus quicker than people think - that is a swing of 2+ in combat res!

Depending on who I am playing, I will sometimes replace one of my 9-man unit of KotR with a unit of 8 KE + a Paladin with Virtue of Heroism. This gives you a unit of knights that are immune to panic on the turn they charge, plus 3 tries at getting a killing blow on large targets. The look on your opponent's face when their terror bomb goes poof on turn 2 is priceless...