PDA

View Full Version : Quick questions for the flufflords



Temmy
03-09-2009, 17:07
Two question for the fluffmeisters:

Is is possible for infantry or marines to try to board and assault a ship or titan with is void shields still active? Are void shields related to the warp?

Second question: Are teleporters two way? Can they be used to teleport terminator squads that have completed their mission back onto the ship?

Dhazzakull
03-09-2009, 17:17
1. I really dont know

2. Yes it's possible, so done in part 2 of the ragnar series. But teleporting in 40k is allways dangerous so most termies will come bavk to their ship with a thunderhawk after they have secured the location and only use teleports if the need to retreat quickly.

TheBigBadWolf
03-09-2009, 17:19
Two question for the fluffmeisters:

Is is possible for infantry or marines to try to board and assault a ship or titan with is void shields still active? Are void shields related to the warp?

Second question: Are teleporters two way? Can they be used to teleport terminator squads that have completed their mission back onto the ship?

Well void shields are related to the warp (they do stop deamonic incursions on the vessel) but im not sure if they can stop an assault boat, i will need to check the BFG books.

As for the teleporter, that is a good question, from all the stuff Ive seen its a one way system, but hey I could be wrong :).

x-esiv-4c
03-09-2009, 17:22
Aren't void shields and Geller shields two different things?

baphomael
03-09-2009, 17:34
Yes, they possibly could. Void Shields often dont register certain incoming objects (possibly because they are too slow - like attack craft in BFG). So its possible to just walk through a geller field - it wont register it as an incoming projectile.


Aren't void shields and Geller shields two different things?

Yeap, they are. Gellar Fields are carried on warp-capable ships, creating a bubble of 'real-space' around the ship so it can travel through the warp without being overcome by the complete lack of physics and random madness that lives there. It protects the ship from the warp itself by cocooning it in 'reality'. This also has the benefit of stopping daemons from eating the ship - most daemons cant just enter realspace at will.

Brother Valtarius
03-09-2009, 17:36
Aren't void shields and Geller shields two different things?

I must say that I agree with this and their was a discussion a few weeks ago in this section of warseer whether void shields are warp related and the general concencuss(sp?) was that they weren't. For example in Flight of the Esienstien they are only boarded by chaos when the geller field collapsed.

In answer to the OP's question concerning void shields yes they can be penetrated with solid objects, this is why boarding torpedos are used to get through the shield. It is also mentioned in several books that void shields are also useless against normal torpedos and they rely on flak cannons to take these down. Therefore I believe that they are only really effective against energy weapons as they dissasipate(sp?) the energy. Whether this means a normal unaugumented human could walk through one im not sure, however I have also seen art that depicts missiles etc. exploding against titan shields. I'm guessing that it will generally work in whatever way suits the writer/artist at the time.

Hope this helped in some way.

Vaulkhar
03-09-2009, 17:36
1. I'm not aware of it ever being done and if I remember the BFG rulebook correctly, the target ship's shields had to be down for a teleport attack to be possible.

1b. Void shields aren't related to the warp. Basically it's an energy field that absorbs the force of an attack ('voiding' it). However the fields can only absorb so much energy at a time. If that's exceeded, the field has to be shut down while the generator disposes of the energy it's already soaked up.

2. Teleporters are usually two way, yes. However, beaming someone up usually needs a teleport homer of some description. It should also be borne in mind that teleporting is so insanely dangerous that just about any other method of getting into space - and that includes hitching a ride on a Mekboy's Mega-rokkit - is several orders of magnitude safer.

reds8n
03-09-2009, 17:39
Yeah they're different.

The void shields one is a bit tricky. It's quite possible for a titan or indeed infantry to get inside the "bubble" of a void shield and assault the titan, but there's other occassions ( a Ghosts novel on the flying city if memory serves) when a void shield is seemingly impassible to people.

So I would suggest that it is possible to generate a void shield "dense" enough to prevent a person from walking through them-- don't they imprison Erebus in a short story inside a void shield ? Acid rain, prison planet etc one-- but those on titans don't seem to stop infantry etc from moving through them.

I've half tempted to make some line about a slow blade penetrarting them but... :D

Teleporters are indeed two way, aside from the above they are also misused to great affect in one of the planetstrike supplements.

Leftenant Gashrog
03-09-2009, 17:53
1. I'm not aware of it ever being done and if I remember the BFG rulebook correctly, the target ship's shields had to be down for a teleport attack to be possible.

1b. Void shields aren't related to the warp. Basically it's an energy field that absorbs the force of an attack ('voiding' it). However the fields can only absorb so much energy at a time. If that's exceeded, the field has to be shut down while the generator disposes of the energy it's already soaked up.


Isn't that a bit contradictory? Teleporation is warp based - so Void shields must be warp related in order to block it.

Since the OP didn't specify teleportation for question 1 it should be noted that according to BFG Torpedoes (both regular and boarding) and Attack Craft (inc Thunderhawks) are slow enough to bypass ships shields - the flip side being that they are slow enough to be shot down.

Brother Valtarius
03-09-2009, 18:19
Isn't that a bit contradictory? Teleporation is warp based - so Void shields must be warp related in order to block it.

Since the OP didn't specify teleportation for question 1 it should be noted that according to BFG Torpedoes (both regular and boarding) and Attack Craft (inc Thunderhawks) are slow enough to bypass ships shields - the flip side being that they are slow enough to be shot down.

Whilst it is cannon that teleportation technology utilises the warp, in Flight of the Esienstien (god I love that book) it tells of one of the marines picking up strange energy (almost like radio signals they are described as if my memory serves) on his auspex just before they are boarded by a teleport assault. Granted that in the book the void shields had already collapsed but perhaps void shields are capeable of blocking this energy and maybe prevent a teleport attack depending on the distance involved the amout of energy put into the teleportation.

I must add that these are not my personal views as I haven't really read enough fluff on teleportation tech. in 40k, but just a theory that could support Leftenant Gashrog's earlier post.

TheBigBadWolf
03-09-2009, 18:36
Oops, yep, I got the two mixed up, gellar fields are for the warp :o:)

Writerski7
03-09-2009, 19:00
Read the Terminator Titanhammer Squads Apocalypse Data sheet.

-Lysander orders the ship to teleport him BACK onboard, which they do

-Lysander then teleports INSIDE the Void Sheilds of enemy titan

Since this is an official GW apocalypse datasheet I think that answers your questions

Temmy
03-09-2009, 19:14
Thanks for the responses. I guess what I am wondering is if it would be possible for an infantry force to board and assault an isolated titan which still has its shields up.

trolly
03-09-2009, 19:18
hi,

1. void shield is not related to the warp IMHO. if they do then most imperium own titan or ship is prone to chaos attack and should bring a psyker on board which they dont in the case of titan.
in dark apostle novel a squad of termy hid themselfes in a mountain and emerge inside titan void shield area and boarding torpedo is too slow to make ship void shield react.
2. teleporter is 2 way. but to make journey back to the ship is dangerous.as teleporting is dangerous enough for a journey to a planet, which you can ended up inside a rock like that miserable captain kleitus. so, if you want to go back to the ship, there is a big chance you will ended up in void space or inside plasma generator. which one do you pick ?

cheers,
:D

BrotherMoses
03-09-2009, 21:45
FLUFF FOR THE FLUFF GOD CANNON FOR THE CANNON THRONE!

Seriously though. I've always wanted to know more about void shields, so this thread should be interesting to both of us. I know in one of the Grey Knight books the main character had NO trouble boarding some sort of super-titan.

Teleporters are two way as I'm sure you've read by now.

BTW what was Ragnar doing teleporting anyways. Aren't Space Puppies afraid of teleporting?

Iracundus
03-09-2009, 22:04
Actually void shields are related to the warp as evidenced by the following quote from Apocalypse:



Certain super-heavy vehicles of the Imperium are surrounded by a number of protective energy fields called void shields, which use warp technology to displace incoming attacks. -p.96 Apocalypse

baphomael
03-09-2009, 22:37
Actually void shields are related to the warp as evidenced by the following quote from Apocalypse:

At a guess (since the precise working, IIRC, havnt bee established) they'd work by utilising the warp to alter the warp/realspace connection around the object in question to displace incoming attack. How this works, I dunno - perhaps working as a localised warp breach that messes with the physics of the incoming projectile (passing it into the warp, displacing it beyond the object like a displacer field in reverse, or perhaps sudden artificial alteration in the physical make up of reality created by the shield causes incoming projectiles to detonate, collapse or otherwise fail).

Askil the Undecided
04-09-2009, 00:05
I love the fact that they decided to make void shields three different things.

1. An utterly impassable field capable of: holding atmosphere inside an open hangar bay, providing absolute privacy to due to sonic dampening & Imprisoning someone for as long as you have the power/capacity to run the field. Prone to overloading when subjected suddenly to extreme levels of energy (eg a naval lance blast.) Operates in rapid cycles in atmospheric enviroments to preserve energy and prevent the suffocation of those inside.

2. A commonly misused name for a Gellar field. (ever since Codex Imperialis.)

3. A crazy Warp-doohickey that displaces (read: teleports) incoming projectiles away (shouldn't work on energy weapons all that well as they are simply high-speed vibrations throught the molecules surrounding the shield.)

Dhazzakull
04-09-2009, 05:44
@ moses
In the second Book of the series, "Ragnars Claw" they accompany inquisitor Sternberg get the parts of the talisman of lykos, On galt they have to fight a waaghboss for one part, and only escape because they get teleported back to sternberg ship.
I think its like the jump packs, give it to the bloodwolfs, they don't know it better.

GavT
04-09-2009, 07:37
As far as I remember, void shields are based on warp technology. They work by shunting energy and matter into the warp, thus protecting whatever is inside. Doing so overloads the shield, hence it has to be recharged. I think part of the problem in representation has come from some writers using void shields as a catch-all 40k energy screen, when in fact the humble powerfield (whatever that actually is) would be more suited.

Low energy attacks (such as relatively slow-moving people and assault craft) do not trigger the void shield - otherwise every bit of space debris or passing bird would set it off!

I'm not sure about teleporting through them. In the original Adpetus Titanicus, there was the warp missile, which skipped back and forth through warpspace to bypass shields. However, I can't remember if you need to take down a ship's shields in BFG before you can launch a teleport attack... Maybe a contradiction there.

As for teleporting two-ways, certainly! I would imagine teleporting back to the battle barge (or whatever) would have the reverse problems of teleporting from the ship - that is, the teleporter array would include a teleporter homer for the signal to lock on to, meaning the teleported troops aren't going to accidentally end up down the corridor, but catching the 'signature' of the troops to teleport them back could prove difficult.

Cheers,

GAV

ashc
04-09-2009, 09:51
If you consider the shield as a warp hole wall then you have somewhere to teleport from on one side of the warp hole wall, to the other side of the wall. In that sense, I would say it is possible to do it, but to stick with the Grim Darkness of the 40k setting, it is no doubt fraught with peril as you teleport between an area of warpspace, and as teleportation seems to rely on mystical as much as scientific tech, I would say there is good chance of a 'mishap'.

Iracundus
04-09-2009, 09:56
As far as I remember, void shields are based on warp technology. They work by shunting energy and matter into the warp, thus protecting whatever is inside. Doing so overloads the shield, hence it has to be recharged. I think part of the problem in representation has come from some writers using void shields as a catch-all 40k energy screen, when in fact the humble powerfield (whatever that actually is) would be more suited.

Low energy attacks (such as relatively slow-moving people and assault craft) do not trigger the void shield - otherwise every bit of space debris or passing bird would set it off!

What qualifies as "low energy" seems to vary depending on the scale of the void shield. Titan scale void shields ignore infantry but stop 40K and Epic scale weaponry. BFG shields ignore assault craft, which fly much faster than 40K scale or Epic scale weaponry (except lasers).



I'm not sure about teleporting through them. In the original Adpetus Titanicus, there was the warp missile, which skipped back and forth through warpspace to bypass shields. However, I can't remember if you need to take down a ship's shields in BFG before you can launch a teleport attack... Maybe a contradiction there.


The shields of the target vessel need to be down before a teleport attack can be launched. This is shown in the BFG rules. There is thus an internal consistency between AT/Epic and BFG. Void shields thus either completely block teleportation, or possibly set up interference patterns to make it so dangerous and unreliable as to be impossible.

ashc
04-09-2009, 09:59
The shields of the target vessel need to be down before a teleport attack can be launched. This is shown in the BFG rules. There is thus an internal consistency between AT/Epic and BFG. Void shields thus either completely block teleportation, or possibly set up interference patterns to make it so dangerous and unreliable as to be impossible.

Ah, there we go, it is established in the background then. Awesome :)

Brother Valtarius
06-09-2009, 20:04
As far as I remember, void shields are based on warp technology. They work by shunting energy and matter into the warp, thus protecting whatever is inside. Doing so overloads the shield, hence it has to be recharged. I think part of the problem in representation has come from some writers using void shields as a catch-all 40k energy screen, when in fact the humble powerfield (whatever that actually is) would be more suited.

Low energy attacks (such as relatively slow-moving people and assault craft) do not trigger the void shield - otherwise every bit of space debris or passing bird would set it off!

I'm not sure about teleporting through them. In the original Adpetus Titanicus, there was the warp missile, which skipped back and forth through warpspace to bypass shields. However, I can't remember if you need to take down a ship's shields in BFG before you can launch a teleport attack... Maybe a contradiction there.

As for teleporting two-ways, certainly! I would imagine teleporting back to the battle barge (or whatever) would have the reverse problems of teleporting from the ship - that is, the teleporter array would include a teleporter homer for the signal to lock on to, meaning the teleported troops aren't going to accidentally end up down the corridor, but catching the 'signature' of the troops to teleport them back could prove difficult.

Cheers,

GAV

Sorry if I sound bad here Gav, but can I ask if you are the GW's Gav Thorpe, because from this sentiment you sound like a gamer that knows aloth through experience but still isn't quite sure. I only ask because a recent thread about Space Hulk ended in a discussion about whether you were THE Gav Thorpe, I'm sorry if I sound out of order here because I love the game but can you/are you allowed to tell us if you are the genuine article.

As I've mentioned before sorry if I'm out of order for asking.

Cheers pal.

Marshal2Crusaders
06-09-2009, 20:12
Dude, GavT just pointed out a fluff inconsistency. :D

Thus validating all of my worries that GW authors do not have a canon bible!!!! :P

Condottiere
06-09-2009, 20:14
For what it's worth, I'm 95% certain it is Gav Thorpe.

Brother Valtarius
06-09-2009, 20:25
For what it's worth, I'm 95% certain it is Gav Thorpe.

As am I my friend, I'd just like a definative answer, which kind of makes my question pointless as I'm sure if it was the main bloke he wouldn't be allowed to tell us. Hey you think the Inquisition is harsh, I bet GW is a bitch about their crowd lol :p.

NightrawenII
06-09-2009, 20:52
The shields of the target vessel need to be down before a teleport attack can be launched. This is shown in the BFG rules. There is thus an internal consistency between AT/Epic and BFG. Void shields thus either completely block teleportation, or possibly set up interference patterns to make it so dangerous and unreliable as to be impossible.

Im not sure but can be the reason more likely in targeting the place of teleportation than the teleportation itself, like say preventing scanning.

ashc
07-09-2009, 00:06
For one thing, there is definitely NOT one definitive GW fluff resource or bible.

For a second thing, yes, it is Gav of 'Gav Thorpe who worked for Games Workshop'. That's why he has a custom title in place of his usual rank, without being a Guild member.

GavT
07-09-2009, 11:32
It is me, honest.

There is no single background source (fluff bible). Games developers and authors have to do dig up old books and White Dwarfs like everybody else (but thankfully have a large library to do so!).

As for my equivocation, that was simply because I couldn't be bothered getting up from the keyboard to check, and so was relying on memory alone ;)


Oddly enough, in BFG it is possible to place blast markers from running into debris like asteroids, so perhaps there's a correlation between total energy and the line at which the void shield is triggered, so that a slow-moving but large mass object will be deflected, while a fast-moving, small mass object won't...

Cheers,

GAV

Brimstone
07-09-2009, 11:46
As am I my friend, I'd just like a definative answer, which kind of makes my question pointless as I'm sure if it was the main bloke he wouldn't be allowed to tell us. Hey you think the Inquisition is harsh, I bet GW is a bitch about their crowd lol :p.

Yes it's Gav Thorpe

Good enough for you. :)

NightrawenII
07-09-2009, 20:00
....so that a slow-moving but large mass object will be deflected, while a fast-moving, small mass object won't...


Which doesnt make sence, because the real danger came from micro-meteorites (Simply because any big thing you can dodge.). I know, they can be deflected by ship armoured hull, but why risk penetration of hull or damage of any device on surface, when you have shields?

LexxBomb
08-09-2009, 03:11
It is me, honest.

There is no single background source (fluff bible). Games developers and authors have to do dig up old books and White Dwarfs like everybody else (but thankfully have a large library to do so!).


Cheers,

GAV

I thought that was why they created the Post of Lore Master at GW... surely one of his tasks would have been to to collate all the lore together and make sure it is used correctly.

Giganthrax
08-09-2009, 03:57
Teleporters work both ways.

In Soul Drinkers, for example, a group of AdMech teleports into a space station, completes their mission, and then teleports back to their spaceship.

Iracundus
08-09-2009, 09:10
It is me, honest.
Oddly enough, in BFG it is possible to place blast markers from running into debris like asteroids, so perhaps there's a correlation between total energy and the line at which the void shield is triggered, so that a slow-moving but large mass object will be deflected, while a fast-moving, small mass object won't...

Cheers,

GAV

Not quite correct. Moving through gas and dust fields in BFG places a blast marker. The blast marker doesn't reflect a single impact and downing of void shields, but rather the sand blasting effect of moving through the cloud at starship speeds.

The asteroid fields in BFG represent very dense fields of solid objects, and the BFG rulebook mentions wreckage fields also being represented by asteriod fields. Ships take Ld tests to see if they can navigate through without mishap. If they fail they take D6 hits, representing a series of impacts, though this could still reflect numerous smaller impacts rather than just one big hit.

Iuris
08-09-2009, 09:34
Maybe, just maybe, big machines like those would have more than one defensive system? Like, a titan could have a whole galore of power fields to stop small arms, void shields to stop specialized titan class weaponry, a teleport jammer, a small coffe kitchen, air intake filters to protect sand from entering, ...

GavT
09-09-2009, 10:15
I thought that was why they created the Post of Lore Master at GW... surely one of his tasks would have been to to collate all the lore together and make sure it is used correctly.

I was Loremaster 'cos I knew where to look ;)

I collated lists of where relevant background material could be found as part of each project brief. Simply duplicating it in one place would be pointlessly labour-intensive. We started a searchable database experimentally, dealing with the Empire, and it was already more than a dozen pages long summarising just the characters mentioned in the tabletop game material. That was just one aspect of one army from one media (i.e. not including WFRP, computer games or Black Library). There is a lot (understatement award pending) of background in 40K and Warhammer, and it's debatable that the sheer amount of resource needed to put it in all in one place could ever be justified when the original sources are still accessible - and if it doesn't include everything then what would be the point?

Cheers,

GAV

Condottiere
09-09-2009, 10:21
You guys needed to create a Wiki accessible to everyone, and then have fun editing it.

LexxBomb
09-09-2009, 13:45
I was Loremaster 'cos I knew where to look ;)

I collated lists of where relevant background material could be found as part of each project brief. Simply duplicating it in one place would be pointlessly labour-intensive. We started a searchable database experimentally, dealing with the Empire, and it was already more than a dozen pages long summarising just the characters mentioned in the tabletop game material. That was just one aspect of one army from one media (i.e. not including WFRP, computer games or Black Library). There is a lot (understatement award pending) of background in 40K and Warhammer, and it's debatable that the sheer amount of resource needed to put it in all in one place could ever be justified when the original sources are still accessible - and if it doesn't include everything then what would be the point?

Cheers,

GAV
I know you were the Lore Master... I was kinda trying to have a friendly poke...mind you a fluff bible could be useful for some of the newer staff.

maybe I should do a Doctorate and document the history of Warhammer and 40k... that would be 'fun' lol... anyway good to see you still around... will we see you colaberating with GW in the future?

Condottiere
09-09-2009, 14:03
Why not? There have theses done on Doctor Strange and from what real life sources his spells originate from.