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View Full Version : Which one of these armies are more fun around 1k?



gorenut
04-09-2009, 17:51
I'm still trying to figure out which force to collect as a secondary/tertiary force that won't go past 1k.

I've narrowed it down to either:
Vampire Counts
Skaven
Ogre Kingdoms

Which of these forces do you guys think would offer more fun lists at 1k (1,500 at most)? Seeing my primary force is Lizardmen, I would definitely prefer something more contrasting to them (so maybe Vampire Counts, as found out through my other thread, might be on the lower end of options here).

Thanks for all the help so far!

GuyLeCheval
04-09-2009, 18:03
skaven, hands down. They can have the most models and the most weird funny creations in 1000 pts. VC need lords to be effective and Ogre armies are too small in 1000 pts.

gorenut
04-09-2009, 18:13
I was kind of thinking the same. All my armies would be themed ofcourse.. with the Vampire list.. I was going to theme it around some lowly/cowardly vampire just starting off... always avoiding direct combat and running away.. leaving his Wight King to do the fighting. The vamp will have Helm of Commandment, to represent he's more of a cowardly schemer.

Ogres.. I guess just a small band of wannabe Maneaters looking to see the world.. but yea.. i can see it being too small of a force.. but the conversion possibilities here are what appeals to me the most. Having each Ogre have an heirloom from all around the world (I have enough bits from every army to represent this).

The Skaven.. well.. admittedly much of it is shiny-new-toy syndrome.. seeing the new clan rats got me wanting to start a force. Also.. i've never personally seen a Skaven force on the tabletop (guess they're very unpopular around here).. finally.. I just like the idea of painting them like lab mice.

N810
04-09-2009, 18:20
How about an Ogre Gnoblar list... (it's kinda like a skaven horde)

gorenut
04-09-2009, 18:29
Haha, or maybe an Ogre list and using Skaven clan rats as Gnoblars.. of Mice and Men.

Condottiere
06-09-2009, 07:03
Of that list, Skaven are probably the most viable.

Also, let's not forget that in a couple of months, their new book will come out.

enygma7
06-09-2009, 19:57
Hordes tend to be more fun at small points values - the cheap cost per model means you can still take a balanced force with a bit of everything you fancy, plus they tend to be more effective at low points.

With elite/expensive armies you tend to miss out on too much fun stuff and get forced to take just the bare essentials. Vampires are very magic and character dependant and most undead players tend to whinge they can't make a competetive army at 1000pts, but I'm not equipped to comment on the validity of this whinge not having played undead much.

Jind_Singh
06-09-2009, 20:22
Skaven would be the most 'fun' in terms of you could have at least 2000 pts of models and run a new list every day! They would provide the most units on the board at 1000pts. They are also the new shiny army - BUT they will take the longest to collect (need more models so at least 2-3 times more cash), to build, and to paint.
Ogres are by far the cheapest - one battalian is close to a 1000pts once you throw in some heros. By far the best looking plastics - once you build and paint THREE models you have unit - weras the other 2 need at least 20 to a unit. Fantastic conversion potentiol if that floats your boat, and as for themes you cant beat them - skaven are based on a particular clan, vamps are just shambling undead (ok they could be modelled to look like empire, brets, or even orcs if you have enough orc plastic skulls), were the ogres have tons of tribes to choose from, plus they can be placed anywere in the world. The downside is they dont have much of a bite at a 1000pts, but hey it's easy to buy another battalian box one day and make them easily into a good 1500pt list or a stretched out 2000pt list.
Vamps - nice plastics apart from zombies - I detest those models! Theme could be any of the human factions around today or a previous tribe of man, and you can also horde out at 1000pts. Easy to paint (well, easier) but they dont work so great at a 1000
and on a personal note they dont really scale up well at larger games compared to skaven and orgres - but this is personal opinion as im not really so keen on the undead armies
GO OGRES!! Leave skaven for the new book - at least with ogres 1 battalian = instant army!

Crovax20
06-09-2009, 20:45
I reckon skaven because of the cheap costs. With my Empire I also find the game a lot more fun at lower point levels, because suddenly my army competes much better.

At 500 points I can take a cannon, swordsmen, archers, knights, while my opponent fields 2 units of skinks and 1 unit of saurus.

So I reckon skaven would be the most fun, because like empire they are quite cheap

PeG
06-09-2009, 21:30
Vampires sometimes have real problems at 1k since their entire army is dependent on a 2 wound hero that has to spend his entire point allowance on defence. On the other hand the ability to raise new units can be powerful when everyone has very few of them.

Skaven are getting a new book soon and will get a bunch new and shiny toys to play with :)

OK are are very few at 1k which may limit their possibilities.

thechosenone
07-09-2009, 04:00
As a vampire player i can tell you that your hero choices don't really cut it at 1,000. Because you HAVE to be a caster at that point. Being a combat hero will get you killed and a crumbled army there after. Too risky to be combaty.

So basically you'll blow two hundred points on a character that sits in the back casting raise dead and invok over and over. The only other affordable hero is the necromancer. Necromancers are good for 1K games. Wight Kings are gunna run you 140 for a good build. My point is, you blow so much into heroes and one hero has to be out of the fight the whole time, that its hard to play 1K. 1500 is at least somewhat better because now you can fit grave guard and a vampire hero of the combaty type. 1K... no.

Condottiere
07-09-2009, 06:47
I always thought that 1500 was actually more viable and fun than either 1000 or 2000. You can't take lords, but if you wanted to, you could fit in 3 heroes, you might even be able to make it with two without risking being overpowered.

cbelm
07-09-2009, 11:04
I run skaven at 1k points with about 120 models, so they definitely involve a lot of work. Its nice to see the look on your opponents face when you put out 5 or 6 blocks of infantry at 1k points though.

artyboy
07-09-2009, 12:15
Vamps are horrible if you can't take a lord. Their troops are the worst in the game. The only thing that makes up for how bad they are is being able to raise them back every turn. At 1000 points you can't invest enough in casters to get enough power dice to reliably raise them faster than they'll die.

Skaven would be the best. I've never played them and it's been many years since I've even seen someone field them. They're about to get a new book, though, so expect them to become a top tier army very soon.

Ogres aren't really viable at 1k because of how expensive they are but I think that they'd be fun.

gorenut
08-09-2009, 02:46
Cool. Thanks for all the input guys. I think I might just got for Skaven.. also because I can see them easily scale well for Warbands games (which is becoming a more and more frequent occurance in our game group).

Next question is.. I still own some Ogre models and are still some of my fave models. Are there any fluff justifications on having Ogres in a Skaven army? I'd even be willing to use em with Rat Ogre rules (though preferably OK rules to avoid confusion) just to be able to use the models. Sorry.. just don't know anything about Skaven.

thechosenone
08-09-2009, 03:31
depending on what you have for ogres many of their units possess the dogs of war rule allowing them to work for other armies

gorenut
08-09-2009, 03:42
depending on what you have for ogres many of their units possess the dogs of war rule allowing them to work for other armies

I have converted Ironguts. I do realize in the OK fluff, they will fight for anyone.. but we know GW would do that to justify any reason to sell more models. Just curious within the knowledge of fellow Warseer members would have in fluffterms that'll make sense on why Ogres and Skaven would be on the same side without being too ridiculous.

SlaaneshSlave
08-09-2009, 04:00
Skaven are about winning by any means necessary.

And they are probably cheating the Ogres at the same time. :)

gorenut
08-09-2009, 04:05
Skaven are about winning by any means necessary.

And they are probably cheating the Ogres at the same time. :)

True.. but I was looking for a more "permanent" solution in terms of fluff that would make sense as to why the Ogres are a mainstay to the army.

thechosenone
08-09-2009, 04:06
See the Ogres like to eat. Lots. If an unscrupulous Moulder's clan master came up with the ingenious idea of sneaking warpstone into the food supply of some Ogres to addict them to the stuff or cause them to get sick from it. Then he could present himself as a pusher of warpstone or as someone with a cure to their sickness.

It gives modeling opportunities too.

gorenut
08-09-2009, 04:59
See the Ogres like to eat. Lots. If an unscrupulous Moulder's clan master came up with the ingenious idea of sneaking warpstone into the food supply of some Ogres to addict them to the stuff or cause them to get sick from it. Then he could present himself as a pusher of warpstone or as someone with a cure to their sickness.

It gives modeling opportunities too.

Awesome! Works for me. I can totally see scheming Skaven taking advantage of some random adventuring ogres. Thanks for the idea.

Jind_Singh
08-09-2009, 07:19
And actually theres the

'The tribe of shrewd Fulg'

This is an Ogre Kingdoms tribe located in the Mountains of Mourn, and the Tyrant who leads them is called Shrewd Fulg. He is a hunchbacked and grizzled Tyrant - and he isn't even the biggest Ogre in his tribe. However the guy is pure evil, and cunning to boot.
He made strong ties with Clan Moulder, so anyone who annoys him (for eg his fellow Ogres wont even break wind in front of him incase they pee him off!!) gets carted off to Clan Moulder to become their next experiment!
You could tie that in with your skaven theme and run both armies or use dogs of war ogres as skaven slaves!!!
Mix their body parts with rat ogres to show poor ogres who perhaps gruffed in front of Shrew Fulg - they should know better!

gorenut
08-09-2009, 07:35
Wow.. thanks for the info. Never knew about Shrewd Fulg. Fits perfectly into my theme then.

Jind_Singh
08-09-2009, 07:45
Your welcome:D
And if you pop into a GW store look at the Ogre Kingdoms book, page 56, there is a paragraph on them. Pretty much most of it is covered above but theres a few extra details you can glean from the read.

Condottiere
08-09-2009, 07:54
At 1K, that's your only rare slot. But Ogres will work for practically anyone, as long as they get paid in some form.

Zarroc
08-09-2009, 14:04
I was kind of thinking the same. All my armies would be themed ofcourse.. with the Vampire list.. I was going to theme it around some lowly/cowardly vampire just starting off... always avoiding direct combat and running away.. leaving his Wight King to do the fighting. The vamp will have Helm of Commandment, to represent he's more of a cowardly schemer.

Ogres.. I guess just a small band of wannabe Maneaters looking to see the world.. but yea.. i can see it being too small of a force.. but the conversion possibilities here are what appeals to me the most. Having each Ogre have an heirloom from all around the world (I have enough bits from every army to represent this).

The Skaven.. well.. admittedly much of it is shiny-new-toy syndrome.. seeing the new clan rats got me wanting to start a force. Also.. i've never personally seen a Skaven force on the tabletop (guess they're very unpopular around here).. finally.. I just like the idea of painting them like lab mice.

Skaven are popular however ATM not very competive, so many skaven players are using other armies

Many skaven players will emerge from the underground very soon :D

Onisuzume
08-09-2009, 14:16
Well, Skaven would probably make for the best thematic opponent, other than chaos daemons that is...

AndyGI
08-09-2009, 16:23
Vamps are horrible if you can't take a lord. Their troops are the worst in the game. The only thing that makes up for how bad they are is being able to raise them back every turn. At 1000 points you can't invest enough in casters to get enough power dice to reliably raise them faster than they'll die.

Skaven would be the best. I've never played them and it's been many years since I've even seen someone field them. They're about to get a new book, though, so expect them to become a top tier army very soon.

Ogres aren't really viable at 1k because of how expensive they are but I think that they'd be fun.

For vampires though, surely the lack of breaking / fear causing is a BIG factor in smaller games? Where the amount of magic items / standards etc to reduce fear can't come into the play.

I've just started VC and it does seem like a strong list but i'm worried about a 2 wound vampire dying and basically spelling game over.

That said, as has been said before, the ability to out-number the opponent mid way through the game is nice, and something un-expected.

I do fear i've assembled my grave guard / skeletons with the wrong weapons though. We'll see.

gorenut
08-09-2009, 16:44
At 1k, I still view Vamps as playing kind of the same in 2k... which is.. keep your lord out of combat and raise like crazy. Its a shame seeing how much damage potential they have in combat.. but there are just far too many things out there that can dispose of a vampire quite easily these days.

The Red Scourge
08-09-2009, 16:44
VC are much more fun below 2K.

At 2K+ one single gloryhugging character takes all the focus away from the army by showing off all his bling. Below 2K, the army becomes interesting and much more balanced with other armies :)

Yes a single 2 wound character may feel a little vulnerable, but they're M6, so you can keep them out of trouble - and it feels a lot less shamefull to lose because you lost a 200 pt. vamp instead of a 500 pt. lord :D

enygma7
08-09-2009, 17:20
They could be slaves? Skaven enslave anything, but mostly other skaven. If they captured some ogres they would of course use them for heavy lifting/heavy machinary operation and in battle. Or they could be the latest clan moulder creation - maybe they've used mind altering warpstone dust to make them compliant, faster, stronger... rat ogres basically.

isidril93
09-09-2009, 18:50
if you go for ogres you can basically create a heavily converted army...each ogre can be a unique character

but using the ogres as rat ogres in the shrewd fulg thing would be cool

gorenut
09-09-2009, 19:39
Yea.. I think I'm def gonna do Skaven with Ogres from Shrewd Fulg. Works out too cause my cousin just picked up Vampires (relief for me, I don't have to worry about ever starting em, hah). So I'll be able to combine things from the 2 other armies I like. Thanks for the input guys.