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Angel of the Black Parade
05-09-2009, 15:39
Ok, so I'm considering starting Iron Warriors after my tau are done (so soon). The feel I'm going for is a Siege Army, even if they aren't necessarily to be played in siege games.

I've got C:CSM and so was wondering what Iron Warriors would, probably wouldn't and never take. I've heard of them using Bezerkers (in siege of vraks?) and of course with a lean towards Oblits.

So, what isn't Iron Warriorish to take? Daemon Princes? Pertuabo (or is it Perturabo? :confused:) was elevated to one, but so were most of the chaos primarchs, so that doesnt really mean much.

Bikes? I was considering using bikes as kind of like a fast-reaction breach force, or would that be something else? I'm interested to hear about this topic from members of these boards who are more up with IW fluff than myself.

Thanks.

Super Ninja
05-09-2009, 16:11
HQ:

whatever you want, even princes.

Elites:

same as HQ, but with a note on Possessed; the possessed Iron warriors use the daemonic essence to power a series of bionic augmentations in their bodies. Lean towards dreads and termies.

Troops:

Since the Iron warriors only dedicate themselves to chaos glory (and Khorne, apparently), stick to regular CSM squads.

Fast attack:

The Iron warriors rely very little on fast response units; you aren't likely to see any bikes or raptors. A pack of spawn to act as a distraction maybe, but thats it.

Heavy support:
When it comes to the IW, you cant really go wrong. Obliterators were orrigionaly created by the IW, and they have alot of them. Lean towards Lrs, Vindicators, Oblits and Defilers, and preds... heck take anything you want:).

Gorbad Ironclaw
05-09-2009, 16:47
I don't think there is anything in the Codex the Iron Warriors wouldn't have, or could be fighting along side.

True, they are not reknown for huge squadrons of bikers or things like that. But I'm sure you could find a small handful of bikers in many warbands. Consider them recon troops or artillery spotters or something if you feel you have to justify them.

At the scale 40k is on there really is very few things that wouldn't fit in.

Angel of the Black Parade
05-09-2009, 16:56
What is the thing about with IW taking bezerkers? I mean, it makes sense logically, if you create a breach in a wall swarm it with CC monsters - but where does this come from in fluff? I'm thinking of incorporating some but would prefer to have a fluff reason beyond "well, skulls are skulls and the IW needed a little assistance".

MasterSparks
05-09-2009, 16:59
What is the thing about with IW taking bezerkers? I mean, it makes sense logically, if you create a breach in a wall swarm it with CC monsters - but where does this come from in fluff? I'm thinking of incorporating some but would prefer to have a fluff reason beyond "well, skulls are skulls and the IW needed a little assistance".

I think that one of the 40k novels (Storm of Iron?) had a battle where Khorne-dedicated Iron Warriors played a major part. That's where I think that the notion have risen from. :)

Angel of the Black Parade
05-09-2009, 17:00
I think that one of the 40k novels (Storm of Iron?) had a battle where Khorne-dedicated Iron Warriors played a major part. That's where I think that the notion have risen from. :)

Aha! I thought I'd read it somewhere! Is it mentioned in Siege of Vraks also at some point? Do the Iron Warriors hire the Skulltakers or something?

Urath
05-09-2009, 17:02
I believe it was in their Index Astartes article, where the warriors they used to secure a breach were as ferocious as Khorne Berzerkers, so I guess it made sense for GW to use as a "counts as".

Aye, the focus is on battering long range firepower and a ferocious host of close combat warriors to close in and finish the enemy. You can justify almost anything with that.

But, if you want to field a stereotype of their army, then Artilery such as Vindicators and Defilers (you could even convert Defilers into more "artillery" looking vehicles, or possessed artillery pieces, Land Raiders for assaulting the breach, Rhinos to move troops across barren landscapes with no cover, Terminators, Havocs and CSM squads, I'd recommend meltaguns, flamers, lascannons to crack and clear bunkers and such.

Hell, you could use Plague Marines, but proxied as Warriors with heavy bionics.

Angel of the Black Parade
05-09-2009, 17:04
I believe it was in their Index Astartes article, where the warriors they used to secure a breach were as ferocious as Khorne Berzerkers, so I guess it made sense for GW to use as a "counts as".

Aye, the focus is on battering long range firepower and a ferocious host of close combat warriors to close in and finish the enemy. You can justify almost anything with that.

*assumes mr burns voice* Excellent!

Thanks for the help guys, the idea about what I'm going to take in my army is a lot clearer now :)

Tonberry
05-09-2009, 17:06
Storm of Iron focusses on an Iron warriors warband, the leader of which has 3 generals he commands, one is a dedicated follower of Khorne, as are his troops.

StormWulfen
05-09-2009, 17:39
Storm of Iron focusses on an Iron warriors warband, the leader of which has 3 generals he commands, one is a dedicated follower of Khorne, as are his troops.

i wouldn't consider a grand company (roughly 1000 CSM's) to be a "warband";)

but yeah, limited fast attack, max out on heavys, elites- termies, chosen (with meltas) maybe a dread, troops- lots of normal CSM's, maybe some zerkers or plague marines (counts as bionic dudes), HQ- whatever you want.

maybe if you play a themed game/campaign try and convince your opponent to allow your havocs to have multi meltas? or let you take a techmarine as a HQ or elite choice?

Leftenant Gashrog
05-09-2009, 18:07
Fast attack:

The Iron warriors rely very little on fast response units; you aren't likely to see any bikes or raptors..

I'm inclined to say that bikes are very much a rarity, but the whole point of the big guns is to blow holes in the enemy lines/walls so the assault troops can storm them - thats why the original (heresy era) epic marine siege list limited tactical & devastator platoons to one for every assault platoon.

One theme of Storm of Iron was that although the Iron Warriors pay lip service to the ideas of chaos undivided as espoused by Horus and the Word Bearers, in truth most of them no longer truly believe it. They are jaded bitter warriors with nothing left but vengeance and slaughter - and that is the path that leads to Khorne, or at least it did before that rubbish in the new Codex. (in days of yore the World Eaters psycho-surgery pointed them in the direction of Khorne in the first place, it wasn't the defining characteristic of a berserker.)

Angel of the Black Parade
05-09-2009, 19:16
I'm inclined to say that bikes are very much a rarity, but the whole point of the big guns is to blow holes in the enemy lines/walls so the assault troops can storm them - thats why the original (heresy era) epic marine siege list limited tactical & devastator platoons to one for every assault platoon.

One theme of Storm of Iron was that although the Iron Warriors pay lip service to the ideas of chaos undivided as espoused by Horus and the Word Bearers, in truth most of them no longer truly believe it. They are jaded bitter warriors with nothing left but vengeance and slaughter - and that is the path that leads to Khorne, or at least it did before that rubbish in the new Codex. (in days of yore the World Eaters psycho-surgery pointed them in the direction of Khorne in the first place, it wasn't the defining characteristic of a berserker.)

But could these assault troops be bikes? I could see them not being raptors as they are another cult altogether, but I could imagine some IW reacting quickly to a breach.

Leftenant Gashrog
05-09-2009, 20:24
Oops, when I said Raptors I did just mean regular Iron Warrior assault troops equipped with jump packs represented by the Raptor entry.

I honestly don't see bikers being all that much use at storming the breach - even if no-mans land isn't crisscrossed by razorwire, craters and trenches which jump infantry could jump over, the breach itself and the surrounding area would still be strewn with rubble.

trolly
06-09-2009, 00:09
hi,


What is the thing about with IW taking bezerkers? I mean, it makes sense logically, if you create a breach in a wall swarm it with CC monsters - but where does this come from in fluff? I'm thinking of incorporating some but would prefer to have a fluff reason beyond "well, skulls are skulls and the IW needed a little assistance".

well, siege war is not a quick battle. and when they do that sometimes they become impatience. when the wall breached then all restrain is no more, and they fight ferociously. this fighting nature and imaptience is what lure them to khorne.


But could these assault troops be bikes? I could see them not being raptors as they are another cult altogether, but I could imagine some IW reacting quickly to a breach.

remember that IW have paranoia nature. so i think that bikes is okay, maybe just to distract wall guards, fluff wise. but no raptor i guess. as flying over the wall and dont know what behind the wall is what halt them from using raptor.

cheers,
:D

FlashGordon
06-09-2009, 00:18
Go with a squad of khorne berzerkers the ones who have gone too far on the bloody path.

Joewrightgm
06-09-2009, 01:46
When choosing Iron Warriors, think of what each choice would do if you were assailing a bastion: The Warsmith, armed with a demon weapon to lead the final assault up the breach, or a mighty warrior who ascended to become a demon prince to slay the defenders C and C.

The possessed, as noted before, use demonic essence to power an array of bionic replacements. Terminators are favored for their ability to wade into the claustrophobic under-mining tunnels, and also for assaulting above-ground hard points. Dreadnoughts are used to rip down gates and smash bunkers asunder with fists and multi-meltas.

The Iron Warriors themselves; Iron Within, Iron Without. Squads equipped with devastating anti-tank and bunker busting weapons, laying down fire power as they get to grips with the defenders after ravaging them from afar. They ask the Gods for nothing, and do not worship them as the other legions do.

The Berserkers. These men have learned to love the charge up a breach, where might counts for all in the balance of war. They may not be dedicated Khorne worshipers, but men who have fought and killed in the deadliest battle ground imaginable: the breach in the fortress walls.

The Iron Warriors rarely use specialist fast attack troops, nor do they summon demons. These are of no use in a trench line, or too unpredictable for their pragmatic nature.

The unrelenting power of the big guns is where the Warsmith places his trust. Honest steel and devastating explosions will bring even the walls of the Imperial Palace one day.

The Iron Warriors were the first to field the mighty obliterators, those gifted with the ability to morph most any weapon imaginable and are skilled enough to use them.

The mighty vindicator has left many broken walls behind it. These are the epitome of the Iron Warriors given form; destructive in an assault, resolute in defense, difficult to dislodge or destroy.

The predator and raider are well used, but for most work the vindicator will suffice.

The havocs of the Iron Warriors lay down sheets of suppressive fire while the rest of the Grand Company close to end the foe where a marine is at his best: close range fire fighting.

Hope that helps. Iron within! Iron without!

kylsnik ironhead
06-09-2009, 03:01
For your tanks fluffy upgrades would be Dozer blades and extra armor basically you want them to look like something you could plow through a wall with.

I can see Iron Warrior Terminator making extensive use of Chainfists and heavy flamers

You could use raptors with Melta bombs as a strike force to blow up a generator or something.

Havoc squads would be a good choice as well.

Koryphaus
06-09-2009, 03:04
Oh, an Iron Warriors army with an emphasis on seiges.. How original. :rolleyes:

Why does every IW army have to have such a focus on Heavy Support? What about the other parts of the army, you know, the ones not focusing on breaking down the walls?

Bikes would be used to conduct recon of the surrounding areas, to prevent the enemy sneaking up on the besieging forces and attacking them from the rear. Raptors would be useful, because you can bypass the walls of a fortress with them, as with Terminators.
Chosen would be used to infiltrate close to the walls, and also to act as counter-encirclement forces.

You can use pretty much any unit in the codex, as long as you can think up a decent reason for it to be there.

Lord-Caerolion
06-09-2009, 03:34
Didn't you know, Koryphaus, an Iron Warrior siege only ends once the fortification is a massive crater, they never try to capture it!

Anyways, enough sarcasm, the Iron Warriors do have many, many assault troops, as those breaches have to be taken and held somehow, and a basilisk isn't going to do the trick. This is why many Iron Warriors turn to Khorne, as with so long being spent in the siege trenches, doing damn nothing other than digging and moving the shells, they came to relish the brutal close quarters combat at the end of the siege, and gradually became more and more merciless so they wouldn't be robbed of their fun. After all, if you've just spend a few months sitting around, you're not going to want your fun at the end spoiled by something as stupid as a "surrender", are you? Hell no!

Condottiere
06-09-2009, 04:56
Mobility is great when the enemy allows you space.

Siege warfare WWI style against a prepared entrenched defense in depth enemy usually means you kickdown one wall, you find another right behind it, with reinforcements rushing in, and if you don't have simultaneous assaults distracting them, mounting pressure from either side.

Ddraiglais
06-09-2009, 06:15
Pretty much anything in the current codex minus the god specific stuff. I would go light on bikes and raptors, but not exclude them. As far as god specific stuff, bezerkers are the only cult troops that really fit. However, there are ways around this. You could use counts as to use bionic equipped troops as plaguemarines. You could probably use some cool weapon conversions as sonic weapons. Sorcerors wouldn't be unknown to the IW, but I doubt there would be many dedicated to Tzeentch. Daemons wouldn't really be used. The IW use daemons to power weapons. However, there are some creatures in the novels that could be used as daemons. I forget their name, but there are some sludge/oil type mutant/daemons in DS/BS. Oh, and I would max out HS. Oblits started with the IW. They would be used extensively. Lots of havocs and tanks would be nice. Termies, dreads, and possesed all work for Elites.

BrotherMoses
06-09-2009, 07:19
I think with the current codex you can't really go wrong with much. Classically, avoid fast attacks and use as much HS as possible. But chaos is chaos and you may find yourself working with a detachment of NightLord veterans or something like that. Above all have fun. I think the days of Iron Warriors being "Cheese within, Cheese without" are over. Just have fun, they sound kind of cool. :D

Gorbad Ironclaw
06-09-2009, 08:37
The thing that always annoys me about the stereotypical armies in 40k is that a 40k force is tiny. Even the hordes armies is only a tiny force and so even if a given formation won't have very many of something you could easily find it in a 40k game.

Yes, Iron Warriors might favour siege warfare, but that can't be all they do. In fact I would think the majority of the skirmishes/battles they fight are not siege warfare at all and they are still Space Marines so they would have units to deal with all there tactical needs. A formation made up exclusively of heavy weapons is cool. If you know where the enemy is, you don't have to move and no one is counter-attacking you.

If that doesn't apply you need a bit more variation. Bikers and/or Raptors (or Iron Warriors with Jump Packs) makes perfect sense to me as outriders/recon/flank guards/preliminary assault elements/artillery spotters/etc.

Vaktathi
06-09-2009, 08:52
As an Iron Warriors player, the units and options I typically restrict myself to the basic CSM troops, no Cult troops, only Icons of undivided except sometimes Khorne on elite units and HQ's. Avoid Cult units and Daemons.

The list I've been playing the last 9 months or so is basically CSM's in Rhino's with flamers, deep striking Terminators with combi-meltas, Oblits, and a winged khornate DP or sometimes a Terminator Lord.

That's pretty much all I ever field in normal games.