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Warsurge
06-09-2009, 04:19
I have been going back and forth between the Blood Angels and the Dark Angels and I can't decide what army I want to adopt as my first ever. I was wondering if you guys could help me pick out one that would probably suit me best. I am rather new but I know most of the fundamental rules of the game (Movement, Phases, Etc.).

If you could just tell me what each army has to offer and a bit of fluff on that particular Chapter, that would be greatly appreciated. Also could you tell me what I should get for my army. I currently have the following but am going out next weekend to get some more models:

4 Tactical Squads
1 Command Squad (Also have an old metal version of them)
2 Rhinos
2 Vindicators
1 Land Raider
1 Whirlwind

Thanks very much for reading,

Warsurge

rjderouin
06-09-2009, 04:24
Easy Enough. (http://www.lexicanum.com/)

march10k
06-09-2009, 04:27
Well, rumor has it that BA are getting a real codex at last. Based on the models you own...well, it's tough. BA get to take assault marines as troops, so tactical squads aren't that well suited to BA...but the best thing about DA is deathwing and ravenwing. I'd say your models aren't really the best for either chapter...but I voted DA. DA tactical squads beat BA tactical squads, IMO.

ntin
06-09-2009, 04:28
That army would fit the Dark Angels more as the Blood Angels tend to go with forces that will deplete their chapter as quick as possible.

Rat Catcher
06-09-2009, 04:29
That army would fit the Dark Angels more as the Blood Angels tend to go with forces that will deplete their chapter as quick as possible.

Haha, well said.

Israfael
06-09-2009, 04:33
Your army is a good start for "vanilla" marines, however it's not geared towards either chapters play-style to be honest. However, that's not to say you're not free to pick one regardless - that's the best part of the hobby - self expression.

If you're basing it just on which chapter is better though; then it's a clear choice - Dark Angels. :angel:

Logarithm Udgaur
06-09-2009, 04:35
More specifically;
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_angels
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Angels

If you really need advice, which would you rather be, a space vampire or a space emo/monk.


DA tactical squads beat BA tactical squads, IMO.
Are they not the same thing? Or is there some price differential that I am unaware of?

SanguinaryDan
06-09-2009, 04:38
It really depends on how much you enjoy the Assault Phase. Or wether you think it'd be easier to paint green or red. The DA don't actually have any unusual units, just more interesting ways to field them. Blood Angels have their special units (Death Company, Furioso and Baal) but otherwise work like other Marines.

So flip a coin. ;)

Corpse
06-09-2009, 04:38
Blood Angels or Green Marines.

Green Marines is a nickname for Dark Angels, since unless you go deathwing - your almost always better off using the normal space marine codex. Where you like every other general chapter but with a green color scheme. Thus, Green Marines.

You seem to be looking for something special. The old fluff of Dark Angels got butchered to some extent to the point of becoming "Emo" rather then the bleak Reaper-Like image they used to have. Blood Angels also suffered the loss of their old Vampiric image to become egotistical royalty. However, their successor chapters still retain that image of Vapiristic in naturte, because they are lightly referred to beyond their color scheme. Same could be said about dark angels successors, but they were hit with fluff that predates their divergances, so the blood angels successors suffered less.

Red is pretty easy to paint with, work with and easy to shade. Because its a middle color - not too bright and not too dark. If you try shading/highlighting with green you will find its harder then red. Especially the dark greens.

Fluff of the blood angels, including some nice melee models and melee capable troop choice (big bonus there) its a very crafty army to work with. Can make a deep strike army without drop pods as well. Trade out jump packs for a transport so you can be traditional. Their transports are often faster when needed, so its a benefit either way. They come with a special tank that can be very efficient points-wise and a means to use heavy flamer side sponsons against horde. (Suggest looking up magnetizing vehicle weapons)

Dark angels well, dont have much in the way of special units and they have excessive limitations on models you wont use more then any regular marine player would. In the marine codex you get the updated rules for marines, which by far outrate the dark angel rules. At least for anything except deathwing terminator forces. Scoring 2+/5++ storm bolters, assault cannons and allies are a nice way to make a water style army. (Refer to elements link in my signature for water style)

I put links in my sig for anyone who like to check other vestiges and tactics to the game. There are plenty of tacticas out there for you to look up too.

Keep it up.

-Voted Blood Angels.

Rat Catcher
06-09-2009, 04:50
.. and the Twilight fans attack.

I voted Dark Angels as they're more of a "basic" marine chapter, whereas Blood Angels are more assault based - quite the opposite of your current army.

They also suffer from the occasional acid flashback and turn into raging emo pretty-boys at which time they "hunger.. for BLOOOOD".

march10k
06-09-2009, 04:52
Red is pretty easy to paint with, work with and easy to shade.



I'd like some of what you're smoking. The BA land raider I did for a friend took nine coats of paint to lose the brush strokes and get an even color. Maybe it's easier on troops.

MajorWesJanson
06-09-2009, 05:10
My marine chapter uses Red Gore as one of the main colors. After a lot of effort I gave in and started using the Mecharite Red foundation, and went from needing many many coats to one coat of foundation and 1-2 coats of red gore. Blood Red I imagine would be the same. Foundation red then the red you want saves a ton of effort.

Warsurge
06-09-2009, 05:11
Yeah, I know what I have right now isnt geared towards either really, but I am going down to GW next weekend and going to start picking out models for the Chapter I pick. So any suggestions on what models I should get for each side?

Logarithm Udgaur
06-09-2009, 05:37
turn into raging emo pretty-boys
Whereas DA start out as raging (in the worst sense of the word) emo pretty boys and just stay there. BTW WTF is "Twilight?"

DA were cool (well, as cool as marines can be) when they had the Amerindian angle going for them. Now, not so much.

Israfael
06-09-2009, 05:38
Yeah, I know what I have right now isnt geared towards either really, but I am going down to GW next weekend and going to start picking out models for the Chapter I pick. So any suggestions on what models I should get for each side?

If you go Dark Angels - it would be much cheaper to avoid GW altogether and use a bitz site for mass terminators (if you take the Deathwing aspect of our army).

http://www.thewarstore.com/blackreach.html

You can pick up groups of five termies there for $20.00; that is an absolute steal as they're from the Battle for Black Reach box-set. You'll save a lot and at most you'll have to do a little converting to make them look like Deathwing.

If you go Ravenwing you can score Biker Legion box-sets via Ebay for much cheaper than you'd get them from a store.

In either case you're buying a certain unit/(s) type in bulk.

As for Blood Angels I can't help ya mate.

wolf40k
06-09-2009, 05:47
If you are looking for a different play style then Normal Marines then go with blood angels. If you wan't an army that plays like Marines but without all the new cool 5th edition stuff that they now have, then play Dark Angels. The blood Angel codex is also free to download off the GW website so you can look it up and see if its for you.

I play Dark angels, so I'm biased. I always loose to Blood Angels so I say pick them.:D

Rat Catcher
06-09-2009, 05:50
Whereas DA start out as raging (in the worst sense of the word) emo pretty boys and just stay there. BTW WTF is "Twilight?"

Haha, how so? Why exactly are they raging? Is it because they seek to punish traitor marines - because if that's your case pal you have beef with all Space Marines. Or perhaps the robes - lemme guess, they're "dresses" - OOOH now there's some new and refreshing homophobia for a unisex article of clothing.

Blood Angels are unstable goths with father issues. Beauty and perfection, tainted by a psychic curse! Woooooo.

I don't even play marines, but the hypocrisy of claiming that Dark Angels are "emo" in comparison to Blood Angels, that my friend is truly rich.

:guffaw:

As for Twilight, you're not fooling anyone. :D

Logarithm Udgaur
06-09-2009, 06:21
BA need Assault Marines, preferably with jump packs.

These links may be of help also.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149462
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180159_Blood_Angels_Codex_and_FAQ_2007-08_5th_Edition.pdf

I am not sure why I am defending these guys as I hate SM of all types, but it seems the DA are crawling out of the woodwork so I guess it is up to me.

Shas'o Brightsword
06-09-2009, 06:34
Get the SONS OF THE LION! they are GREAT! That upgrade sprue they made for them is sweet! I MEAN THOSE ROBES LOOK AWESOME! And plus who doesn't like the idea of a bunch of hooded guys hunting traitors! And they have the ravenwing but they also have the DEATHWING!!!

FOR THE LION!!! HUNT THE FALLEN!!!!!!!!!!! CHARGE!!!!!!!!!

MadHatter
06-09-2009, 07:04
Well I think you should decide like this. Do you want to have lots of terminators or alot of assualt marines. Choose from that and you have your answer.

I chose Blood Angels because they are my prefered chapter.

hawo0313
06-09-2009, 07:21
OK so what you have neither specializes in DA or BA but it depends what you like better small elite units with mixed weaponry i.e. close combat kitted termies with heavy weapons that count as scoring as well or lots of jump packs, special characters and special units i.e. Baal predator, Furisio and DC

basically I had the same choice and both these teams looked great but then I saw mephistion;)

- Deathwing -
06-09-2009, 07:27
Voted DA. The Deathwing got me into WH40K and I really like(d ) the tragic background of the chapter.

Now the DA tend to be seen as Emos, and they can't have the new shiny toys of the vanilla Codex. But there will always be the next edition ( for the toys ) and GW did more than once change the fluff.

Corpse
06-09-2009, 08:05
I'd like some of what you're smoking. The BA land raider I did for a friend took nine coats of paint to lose the brush strokes and get an even color. Maybe it's easier on troops.

Do you mix with a paint thinning substance? Like future floor polish? The paint goes on so evenly (and almost always needs layers on wide surfaces) that the finish wont need anything other then decals. You can even paint eyes with retina, iris and the little bitty shine on the eye of a skink with proper thinning.

Any well seasoned experienced painter knows that you need to paint in multiple layers.

shabbadoo
06-09-2009, 08:20
I started with Dark Angels in Rogue Trader, with only a few Blood Angels alongside because I liked the idea of "Angels of the Emperor". When the 2e Angels of Death codex came out(DA and BA in one codex) I fully fleshed out a BA army too. Both army list are solid enough, even if they are not updated(we gotta have a reason to buy a 5e codex now don't we) to the current vanilla standards.

Both armies can be built in similar ways, though each does have its own unique units too. As far as painting goes, Dark Angels are a heck of a lot easier to paint than Blood Angels are. Primer black, and follow that up with a single coat of Dark Angels Green and you are good to go on to highlights, etc. Not so with red paint.

I'm not sure where the whole Dark Angels = EMO bit comes from(maybe from mentally deficient/inbred folk perhaps), as part of the Legion going traitor and that being kept as a dirty secret and a stain upon the chapter's honor is anything but EMO. They don't whine about it, nobody knows about it but them, and anybody who does find out anything remotely having to do with it winds up dead. Dark Angels are all about Deathklok:skull:, not The Cure:cries:.
:evilgrin:

BrotherMoses
06-09-2009, 08:35
First I want to welcome you to the hobby and playing a marine chapter. I am a Blood Angel player so you know which one I have to vote for. :) In choosing a chapter there are a few things to consider that I will address for you here. These are: Fluff, color scheme, and tactics/rules.
It is a good idea to be familiar with the fluff of both armies. This is important to most people in some way or the other. I'm not going to outline the chapters here, but I will leave you to your own devices to look it up. You're a big boy and you have access to google.
Color scheme is more important than many people admit. You have to like the look of your army on the table. Mainly, you're looking at red marines vs. dark green marines. I suggest you find pictures, such as you might find in a codex, of both armies on tables and decide which appeals to you most. Many people find painting red tedious so that may guide you. That said, red is also very forgiving should you choose not to highlight or to highlight sparingly.
The tactics your chapter favors fluffwise and ruleswise are important. Both of these chapters are mostly codex, especially the Blood Angels. Both can field "vanilla" sort of armies if you choose. Blood Angels are known for their spearhead assault squad tactics. Assault squads are troops to encourage this. I find that a strong firebase is important so I field Baal Predators and a vindicator to lay down a withering torrent of fire that will thin my enemies ranks before my brother marines get their and purge them. Dark Angels are known for their Deathwing first company and their favoring of tactical dreadnought armour (aka Terminator armour). This has been the roughest of outline of both armies tactics. I would suggest reading both codexes and seeing exactly what you can do.
When you've chosen your chapter and painted your marines I hope you have a fantastic time brother-marine. :)

Freman Bloodglaive
06-09-2009, 08:39
In the grim darkness of the 41st millennia Dark Angels are the grimdarkest of the grimdark.

That said I use the Dark Angels models and fluff with normal marine rules. You get the best of both worlds that way.

Logarithm Udgaur
06-09-2009, 08:49
I'm not sure where the whole Dark Angels = EMO bit comes from

In my experience it comes more from the people who play DA than whatever fluff they are currently sporting.

wolf40k
06-09-2009, 08:58
I think that colour is not as big a deal as some have made it out to be. You can say that it is one of the Blood/Dark Angels sucsesser chapters and use their rules but your own paint sceme. :)
Hell you could paint them up pink and purple and call them Pretty Marines:wtf: and still use one of their rules sets, no one would play you if you did it, but you could.

Kargush
06-09-2009, 09:05
In my experience it comes more from the people who play DA than whatever fluff they are currently sporting.

I have yet to meet a fellow DA player who is even remotely emo. So if there is a huge group of emos playing DA, I'm very much surprised. I though that crowd went with either DE or the Smurfs.

Anyways, I voted DA. Some of the best fluff and models out there. And go with the DA Codex, even if you go for a standard battle company with no 'wing. It's what I do, and I have never regretted it one instant.

Then again, the DA are what got me into all this madness. ;)

Corpse
06-09-2009, 12:18
The whole emo thing comes from being Unforgiven.

Just like the sons of russ are the "horo marines" (dont ask).

Imperial fists are the Masons. (masons came before templars and spawned the templars, also ironiclly they were pro builders and the original castle making masters - thus terra)

Ultramarines got smurf name because the old smurf cartoon was very popular, and so are the ultrasmurfs.

Blood angels only recently attained its beautyboy-vampire nickname and then linked to the (hopefully temporary) popular twilight movie/book series.

It only takes a light reference for anyone to point fingers with nicknames. In reality, people prefer to pick on others and use the name on their own armies as a personal joke.

Logarithm Udgaur
06-09-2009, 13:18
Ultramarines got smurf name because the old smurf cartoon was very popular, and so are the ultrasmurfs.


Probably has more to do with them being blue with white heads for the most part. The cartoon smurfs were blue with white hats and pants/shoes, except for the great leader Magnus...er Papa Smurf (red hat/pants/shoes).

Shas'o Brightsword
06-09-2009, 14:42
Well I think you should decide like this. Do you want to have lots of terminators or alot of assualt marines. Choose from that and you have your answer.

I chose Blood Angels because they are my prefered chapter.

yeah i mean your right he can have a lot of termies with DA but there are still other options. Like all ravenwing and of course just a normal army so you dont just have to deathwing in a DA army.

Fallen DA
06-09-2009, 16:59
The models you have listed are far more shooty than assault. so Dark Angels as far as I'm concerned. But I've always been Dark Angels. They have a far deeper history and offer more fluff wise.

Shadowfax
06-09-2009, 17:20
I've been playing DA for nearly a decade, and right now they're less fun to play/create lists for than they've been in all that time.

"Doublewing" lists are fun for a while, but then you realize that they're the only DA list that is both unique and reasonably capable of winning, and also that all your armies are starting to look the same. Suddenly a lot of the fun and creativity drains away.

Going with "Green Marines" is probably the best idea.



But there will always be the next edition ( for the toys ) and GW did more than once change the fluff.
Hahahahahaha. Be prepared to wait 8 years for that (and then still probably be disappointed).

VanirX
06-09-2009, 17:30
Before I got into 40k I too was stuck trying to decide to play Dark Angels or Blood Angels. But in the end, it was the Red & Black colour scheme of the Blood Angels that won me over. :D

Legionary
06-09-2009, 17:43
Dark Angels are fantastic: they look good painted, their models stand out from other SM chapters, they have an interesting and characterful background, they're not necessarily the good guys (would you want them turning up on your planet?) and they're more tactically flexible than the Blood Angels.

Your force is far more suited to Dark Angels. Also I'd use the Space Marine codex if you're going Dark Angels unless you're running Ravenwing and/or Deathwing.

Rat Catcher
06-09-2009, 17:51
In my experience it comes more from the people who play DA than whatever fluff they are currently sporting.

Now I know you're trolling.

aeoglas
06-09-2009, 17:52
Personally, if you want to do either chapter, I think you need to sell your current models on ebay and then go for BA. Who knows, you might even make some cash out of it.
If that's too drastic for you, I've got another option for you. Black templars. Even as a pointy ear general (classic giveaway), I love black templars. the colour scheme, the units and the fluff. go for them.

Condottiere
06-09-2009, 19:02
Blood Angels, they seem more sympathetic.

MadHatter
06-09-2009, 19:03
yeah i mean your right he can have a lot of termies with DA but there are still other options. Like all ravenwing and of course just a normal army so you dont just have to deathwing in a DA army.

In the Game store I work at and then later when I was a red shirt, I only have seen one player field a raven wing army.
I would recommend that if you are going to play Dark Angels I would sugest getting the Raven wing battle force box if you can find it.




Dark Angels are fantastic: they look good painted, their models stand out from other SM chapters, they have an interesting and characterful background, they're not necessarily the good guys (would you want them turning up on your planet?) and they're more tactically flexible than the Blood Angels.

Your force is far more suited to Dark Angels. Also I'd use the Space Marine codex if you're going Dark Angels unless you're running Ravenwing and/or Deathwing.

So why not just make your own chapter of space marine and use the special characters to give you the same basic effect. This is weak advise. If a player told me he was playing a chapter marine by name then played them as a standard marine army I would switch my army to smash them into the ground without mercy.




Personally, if you want to do either chapter, I think you need to sell your current models on ebay and then go for BA. Who knows, you might even make some cash out of it.
If that's too drastic for you, I've got another option for you. Black templars. Even as a pointy ear general (classic giveaway), I love black templars. the colour scheme, the units and the fluff. go for them.

Black Templars are a solid army. With that said do not sell your models on ebay. Whirlwinds and vindicators are great for cover fire. Tactical squards should be a part of every marine army, even the BA/DA and they are great to have if you should get your army up to Apoc. size. The Land Raider a great models and if you want the can be dedicated transports for the terminator squads. In tournament you can find a use for all your models. In the seattle GT there was a BA player who used tactical squads in Rino's and did really well as he was in the top 5 player and won some really great prizes. I have a picture of his army. The new BA codex will give you more options in the future.

And yes welcome to the Hobby. I would also give you this advise for helping you chose your army. Write your chapters back ground as you would tell it to your fellow hobbiest and opponents. It may help you better get a understanding of what you want to play.

AngryAngel
06-09-2009, 21:06
Dark Angels are the way to go. Terms and Bikers are their thing. Though the company vets aren't bad either currently. Join the winning side. Don't fall for the propaganda of twilight.

As well you'd probably be the marine player least likely of being accussed of cheese of cheese with DA.

LonelyPath
06-09-2009, 21:25
Dark Angels are a favourite of mine and I do field power armoured troops with them more often than not. It may be cheaper to go with C: SM and also get their wargear, but the purist in me doesn't let me do that. Death Wing and Ravenwing are good forces to field also. Company Veterans can be devastating if geared for CC, combined with a Interrogator Chaplain and all piled into a LR Crusader. It's alot of eggs in one basket but when that squad hits, not much can stand up to it ;)

Souleater
06-09-2009, 22:08
Have you not considered Space Wolves?

New dex coming out with some great figures. Buy SW kits and mix with the bits you already have. You'd only have to wait a month.

Shas'o Brightsword
07-09-2009, 02:50
Have you not considered Space Wolves?

New dex coming out with some great figures. Buy SW kits and mix with the bits you already have. You'd only have to wait a month.



i know this is off topic sorry but do you have any link to pictures of the upcoming space wolves i would love to see them thanks.

Logarithm Udgaur
07-09-2009, 03:38
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212260
characters

Shas'o Brightsword
07-09-2009, 03:46
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212260
characters

ok thanks dude! AND THOSW ARE SOME SWEET MODELS! man they did a great job with them from the looks of it get those guys or DA thats what i say they each have GREAT update sprues but DA codex sucks!:wtf::cries::cries::cries: i hope SW is good.

march10k
07-09-2009, 05:12
I've been playing DA for nearly a decade, and right now they're less fun to play/create lists for than they've been in all that time.

"Doublewing" lists are fun for a while, but then you realize that they're the only DA list that is both unique and reasonably capable of winning, and also that all your armies are starting to look the same. Suddenly a lot of the fun and creativity drains away.

Going with "Green Marines" is probably the best idea.


See, I love this attitude...It keeps people surprised when I show up with a 5th company army...They're stunned to see power armored dark angels played using the dark angels codex...shocked to see me field a barebones captain (all I want out of him is tablewide LD10...and an extra power sword in a squad of my choice)...and floored when I wipe the floor with them (orks have nothing on my green tide!). Without Van Sternguard, without thunderfire cannons...without AV13 dreadnaughts... how is this possible? Everyone knows that DA stink on ice if you don't field twenty scoring terminators! :wtf:

Brother Antonios
07-09-2009, 07:33
March, no offense but if you are consistently beating Orks with Codex DA then you are consistently playing someone who makes major mistakes. Check the Ard'Boyz results if you don't think Orks wipe the board with DA.

As for the main question I play DA and they do OK not great not bad, the 'Wing armies are a nice change of pace and they do have some killer models. That said I'm shelving them (even my finally painted Deathwing) in favor of a new Space Wolves army. Take of that what you will.

MontytheMighty
07-09-2009, 08:10
you can't go wrong with a secret order of mysterious space monks XD

AndrewGPaul
07-09-2009, 09:43
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212260
characters

Off-topic; urk. Njal is cool (Terminator armour with a sidearm? :) ), but the others are goofy-looking. I like the Wolf Guard Terminators, but other than those, I'm sticking to my 2nd ed metals.

On-topic; Paint your Marines any colour you like (but black, red and bone are good choices) and use them as either Blood Angels successors, Dark Angels successors or normal Marines as you want.

Petay1985
07-09-2009, 11:48
I would say your existing army would suit a Dark Angels force more, but thats opinion rather than a restraint, i personally really like Blood Angels (my first ever real army back in the day) plus if rumours of new codex prove true and you can get your hands on some space hulk terminators, your quids in!! :)

Raibaru
07-09-2009, 13:55
I'd personally go with BA (or SW) despite me being a much larger fan of DA. Their rules are awful and BA are far more likely to get an updated Codex first. You also have the luxury of absolutely fantastic terminators from Space Hulk if you can find one lying around somewhere. If you luck out and find a Tyranid player to go in with you, you'll make a killing.

Hell, with the rumor of one of the special characters in the SW codex allowing terminators as troops (which apparently are cheaper then DW terminators, and will likely have better options to choose from) you could just as easily make "DW" out of their army book too.

There's really nothing worse then having an army you really enjoy playing but get next to no real support from GW in ensuring it remains fresh and fun. I play Dark Eldar and have ever since 3rd came out (was Ulthwe and Thousand Sons prior) only to see every single player's list look identical and win largely because of the abundance of MEQ out there.

Gutted
07-09-2009, 14:01
With a few additional purchases your force can do either quite well. Go with the colour scheme and the fluff you like.

Personally I always preferred Dark Angels but the obfuscation of who turned to chaos and the emphasis on robes has turned me off them. Now if I had to pick I would pick Blood Angels, but I would probably just use Codex: Space Marines because the inflated points cost to account for Death Company makes them feel like 1 trick wonders.

AndrewGPaul
07-09-2009, 16:12
Paint 'em up in a unique scheme, and you can use them as regular Marines, Dark Angels successors or Blood Angel successors. :)

Warsurge
07-09-2009, 17:38
I think I might just go with the Sons of Russ! I can't deny it! I am going to go up to GW to look at their copy of the new SW codex.