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eyescrossed
06-09-2009, 04:31
To me it seems that the Giant isn't worth it, when compared with the Shaggoth. I'll probably get one regardless (their special attacks look entertaining), but are they worth it?

Thanks in advance.

Briohmar
06-09-2009, 11:33
A Slaanesh giant is pretty standard kit around here. Many players actually fear them when they come out. They can do an inordinate amount of damage, or conversely, they can be shot down in a hurry. Always, they are fun though. My last game, my giant killed a Bloodthirster by dying and falling over on him. It was definitely worth it.

xsamx
06-09-2009, 12:15
slaanesh giants are awesome. one munched through an exalted and a lvl 2 sorc and killed 2 knights, as well as keeping them in combat for 4 turns! If thats not worth the points i dont know what is!

Makaber
06-09-2009, 12:29
First of all, stop comparing Giants and Shaggoths. Also, it's funny how when people inevitably do compare them, people used to say "Oh, the Shaggoth is way to expensive, just compare it to the giant!". Drop the Shaggoth 20 points, it's still somehow overpriced and nobody takes them, but they're now somehow better than the Giant (who was just fine all the time?). By that reasoning, the Giant should suck. Which it doesn't.

The Shaggoth is a flanker. Whatever fast, hard hitting stuff is in the Warriors list tends to be very wide (Dragon Ogres, Knights), so they're horrible for flanking maneouvers because they'll end up spending so much time wheeling. The Shaggoth can turn on the spot and hide behind terrain a unit could not, so it's good for getting around and presenting a threat, dictating how and where your enemy can move.

The Giant works more like a giant Spawn. Sure it can inflict some damage and break some units, but its main strength is bogging something down by virtue of being almost unbreakable. Giants are very good at what they do, however their glaring weakness is the Toughness 5 and no armour, meaning they get shot down relativly easy by magic missiles, crossbows, even regular bows (especially if it's a large target). Throw poison into the mix and he's pretty much screwed; I've seen Mengil Manhide and some Manflayers drop one in a single round, and Skinks are suicide. Also, Move 6 is good, but not great, so he's not as good for the wide swooping stuff the Shaggoth can pull off.

eyescrossed
06-09-2009, 12:33
A Slaanesh giant is pretty standard kit around here. Many players actually fear them when they come out. They can do an inordinate amount of damage, or conversely, they can be shot down in a hurry. Always, they are fun though. My last game, my giant killed a Bloodthirster by dying and falling over on him. It was definitely worth it.
They do seem to be very hit or miss, but WOW on the Bloodthirster!



slaanesh giants are awesome. one munched through an exalted and a lvl 2 sorc and killed 2 knights, as well as keeping them in combat for 4 turns! If thats not worth the points i dont know what is!
They seem like quite the tarpit - especially when they can bite things and regain lost wounds.

eyescrossed
06-09-2009, 12:39
First of all, stop comparing Giants and Shaggoths. Also, it's funny how when people inevitably do compare them, people used to say "Oh, the Shaggoth is way to expensive, just compare it to the giant!". Drop the Shaggoth 20 points, it's still somehow overpriced and nobody takes them, but they're now somehow better than the Giant (who was just fine all the time?). By that reasoning, the Giant should suck. Which it doesn't.

The Shaggoth is a flanker. Whatever fast, hard hitting stuff is in the Warriors list tends to be very wide (Dragon Ogres, Knights), so they're horrible for flanking maneouvers because they'll end up spending so much time wheeling. The Shaggoth can turn on the spot and hide behind terrain a unit could not, so it's good for getting around and presenting a threat, dictating how and where your enemy can move.

The Giant works more like a giant Spawn. Sure it can inflict some damage and break some units, but its main strength is bogging something down by virtue of being almost unbreakable. Giants are very good at what they do, however their glaring weakness is the Toughness 5 and no armour, meaning they get shot down relativly easy by magic missiles, crossbows, even regular bows (especially if it's a large target). Throw poison into the mix and he's pretty much screwed; I've seen Mengil Manhide and some Manflayers drop one in a single round, and Skinks are suicide. Also, Move 6 is good, but not great, so he's not as good for the wide swooping stuff the Shaggoth can pull off.

I'm new to Fantasy, and the Shaggoth just looked a lot better overall.

But I'll only be facing Lizzies, other WoC, VC and maybe Dwarfs, so I'm not facing that much shooting. But, when fighting Lizards I'll steer clear of Skinks.

bizzar6311
06-09-2009, 12:45
Can the nurgle spell that gives regen affect the giant? If so that's a nasty combo!

Tower_Of_The_Stars
06-09-2009, 12:57
I really can't understand how Giants can be used in competitive play.

Large target + toughness 5 + no armour save + 205 points cost = loss of 205 points in a short amount of time.

eyescrossed
06-09-2009, 13:10
I really can't understand how Giants can be used in competitive play.

Large target + toughness 5 + no armour save + 205 points cost = loss of 205 points in a short amount of time.

I think you mean 225 points :D

xsamx
06-09-2009, 13:40
Can the nurgle spell that gives regen affect the giant? If so that's a nasty combo!

yea it can.

Yes they are nasty, use it as a tarpit and with Slaanesh mark and ASF chances are you could do some nasty damage. Yell and bawl can keep units tied up, and the chanceto stuff special chars into your pants is awesome.

Skyth
06-09-2009, 13:58
I pack a Slaanesh giant in most of my lists. The biggest reason is that he's an excellent centerpiece to the army :)

Is he effective for his points cost? I'd say yes. Shooting directed at him is shooting not directed at my Knights/Chariot/Chaos Warriors. I use him to tie up annoying units. The ASF works as a defence too (Reduces the number of attacks back at him). If he rolls right, he can mash units also.

Is he worth the comp hit you are going to get for taking him? No.

Is he fun? Definitely.

I've had my giant smash a unit of warriors, then a war machine. I've had him tie up a big block of Chosen that got the stubborn/4+ Ward for an entire game. I've had him charge a unit of Black Knights where he would get charged by blood knights. He wiped out the unit of blood knights, killing the last couple by falling on them.

I've also had him killed by a cannon round one where he fell and killed one of my spawn also.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
06-09-2009, 14:03
Why would you take a comp hit for taking a Slaaneshi giant?

GenerationTerrorist
06-09-2009, 18:52
Giants are just really really fun to use in a WoC list. Sure, for super-competitive tournament lists they may not be as useful, but I take one in my 3000pt games....A great centrepeice, the enemy likes to shoot him rather than my Knights, etc, and they can be either totally destructive or totally useless. But the fun factor is the most important thing for me.

Skyth
06-09-2009, 19:15
Why would you take a comp hit for taking a Slaaneshi giant?

Large, Terror Causer, and the ASF. It scares people worse than it's actual capabilities, thus comp hit.

Avian
06-09-2009, 19:28
The Shaggoth can turn on the spot and hide behind terrain a unit could not, so it's good for getting around and presenting a threat, dictating how and where your enemy can move.
Remember also that a Giant only rolls 2D6 for pursuit, meaning that even against infantry it only has a marginally better than 50% chance of running them down if they break and flee. Against cavalry it's about 25%.

The Shaggoth, on the other hand, gets 3D6 pursuit and has about 75% chance of running down infantry and about 50% for cavalry.

(Admittedly, a Shaggoth won't break very many infantry units...)

snottlebocket
06-09-2009, 20:23
Remember also that a Giant only rolls 2D6 for pursuit, meaning that even against infantry it only has a marginally better than 50% chance of running them down if they break and flee. Against cavalry it's about 25%.

The Shaggoth, on the other hand, gets 3D6 pursuit and has about 75% chance of running down infantry and about 50% for cavalry.

(Admittedly, a Shaggoth won't break very many infantry units...)

Indeed, the giant might not have a great chance of catching units but a shaggoth does stand a much better chance of running away himself than causing anyone else to run. (assuming he doesn't just drop dead on the spot from severe lead poisoning)

PeG
06-09-2009, 21:08
if you only look at maximum efficiency for your points I would say that neither Giant or shaggoth are the choices you are looking for. Instead you should probably invest in knights, dogs and magic. potentially with a few support units.

On the other hand if you are looking for fun games with some more variation the giant is definitely a good idea. Decent effect for your points, good looking model and some fun effects.What more can you ask for.

Witchblade
06-09-2009, 21:14
Giants are not reliable and resilient enough to be competitive. They are, however, tons of fun and Chomp! is really good against big things.

MoN if you want it to not get turned into a pin cushion.
MoS if you want it to be much nastier in combat.

Killboss
07-09-2009, 00:02
They seem like quite the tarpit - especially when they can bite things and regain lost wounds.

Told you :p



But I'll only be facing Lizzies, other WoC, VC and maybe Dwarfs, so I'm not facing that much shooting. But, when fighting Lizards I'll steer clear of Skinks.

That's not easy when they both have the same move, skinks have range, and i usually have 3 units...

Oh and, the Dwafs CAN put out alot of shooting, a crapload of guns, crossbows and war machines will smush that giant.

eyescrossed
07-09-2009, 00:51
Told you :p
Yes, I know, we cleared this up quite some time ago.



That's not easy when they both have the same move, skinks have range, and i usually have 3 units...
Yeah, but it's not like I'm going to let you get anywhere near my giant with them ;)



Oh and, the Dwafs CAN put out alot of shooting, a crapload of guns, crossbows and war machines will smush that giant.
Yeah, I know, but last time I checked William doesn't have that much range (I'm probably wrong though), but even if he does, he'll probably "SHOOT DA BIG WUN FURST!!1!!1!1ONE!11!" which will leave my Knights unscathed :D

Killboss
07-09-2009, 02:05
Yes, I know, we cleared this up quite some time ago.

We did?


Yeah, but it's not like I'm going to let you get anywhere near my giant with them ;)

That's alittle ahrd when there's 30 of 'em and you don't have any shootign to put them down... and they can move 12"

eyescrossed
07-09-2009, 02:32
We did?
Yeah, I remember thinking it wasn't but then reading it up and telling you that you were right.



That's alittle ahrd when there's 30 of 'em and you don't have any shootign to put them down... and they can move 12"
Ah yes, but march blocking, charging the Skinks with a different unit or even just the simple "put a unit in between the two things" can work.

Angelust
07-09-2009, 03:16
I think Giants are better left for fun games, but I don't find them quite so bad that they wreck a semi-competitive list. I don't see ANY reason to dock comp points for a Slaaneshi giant.

The most awesome Slaaneshi giant I saw was in a themed Slaanesh WoC army, and it was made with a Necron Deceiver, Pegasus wings, and some other bits, painted gold and awesome. It made me want to make one...

eyescrossed
07-09-2009, 04:17
That's another thing - aside from the painting, how would you make a giant from the plastic kit Slaaneshi? I'm not going to greenstuff a certain male appendage onto it either...

Nurgling Chieftain
07-09-2009, 04:20
I'd just use a Reaper Sophie. :D

Axis
07-09-2009, 05:32
I use a giant in my OnG (at 3k) but i havent with my chaos. I've found giants tend not to get into combat but that is because the enemy always shoots it down. It acts as a big fire magnet. They simply cannot afford to let it hit their lines. The damage potential of a giant is huge (much like the giant).

Darth Alec
07-09-2009, 08:46
That's another thing - aside from the painting, how would you make a giant from the plastic kit Slaaneshi? I'm not going to greenstuff a certain male appendage onto it either...

You could Greenstuff a couple of female (usually) appendages unto it :p

eyescrossed
07-09-2009, 08:52
You could Greenstuff a couple of female (usually) appendages unto it :p

*Shudders* That would be unbelievably ugly.

Axis
07-09-2009, 10:30
*Shudders* That would be unbelievably ugly.

Or disturbingly arousing..

eyescrossed
07-09-2009, 11:00
Or disturbingly arousing..

No... Just no...

AndyGI
07-09-2009, 11:07
I used one on the weekend against a dark elf player, due to my opponent mis-guessing how far away he was, he took down a chariot, then mashed up the bolt thrower on the flank, but crossbows and magic missiles eventually chipped off all his wounds. He nearly fell onto Malus Darkblade but sadly fell in the wrong direction.

As for comparing him to a shaggoth, not sure. I never really get the advantage of terror anyways, due to playing against lots of ITP, Cold-Blooded, LD9 armies.

Avian
07-09-2009, 16:11
That's another thing - aside from the painting, how would you make a giant from the plastic kit Slaaneshi?
In my army the slaaneshi units have a lot of blue on them, so the Giant will have that as well. That should be obvious enough. He's going to be fielded in all three of my armies so I'm not going to convert him very much.

Killboss
08-09-2009, 00:23
Yeah, I know, but last time I checked William doesn't have that much range (I'm probably wrong though), but even if he does, he'll probably "SHOOT DA BIG WUN FURST!!1!!1!1ONE!11!" which will leave my Knights unscathed :D

Allow me to finish my post from before. Not much shooting? 5 Characters, 3 with gunz, 2 with crossbows, something like 20 thunderers and crossbowers, cannon, grudge thrower AND flame cannon. That's just off the top of my head, there may be more... But shooting thing account for about/atleast 50% of his army.

Seville
08-09-2009, 02:13
That's another thing - aside from the painting, how would you make a giant from the plastic kit Slaaneshi? I'm not going to greenstuff a certain male appendage onto it either...

We've got a local 40k slaanesh player who would do some disgusting things to it... he's got all types of oozing and bleeding orifices and "male members" sculpted onto his tanks, defilers, demon princes, etc... heh heh. It's pretty foul.

But anyway, great topic. I was actually just thinking about starting one about the WoC giant. Of course, the giant is not for ultra competitive lists, but I am finding they do surprisingly well for me! Believe it or not I just had one perform decently against a 6 warmachine dwarven gunline, and a GT winning High Elf list. I am sure I just got lucky, but he held up to fire better than I thought, and of course absorbed shots that would otherwise be directed at my knights.

eyescrossed
08-09-2009, 04:35
In my army the slaaneshi units have a lot of blue on them, so the Giant will have that as well. That should be obvious enough. He's going to be fielded in all three of my armies so I'm not going to convert him very much.
Ah, well my Slaaneshi units are going to be purple, so I could do his loincloth purple and give his skin a slight purple glaze.



Allow me to finish my post from before. Not much shooting? 5 Characters, 3 with gunz, 2 with crossbows, something like 20 thunderers and crossbowers, cannon, grudge thrower AND flame cannon. That's just off the top of my head, there may be more... But shooting thing account for about/atleast 50% of his army.
If he says his army isn't a gunline I SWEAR I will string him up the Woodend clocktower by his nipples.



We've got a local 40k slaanesh player who would do some disgusting things to it... he's got all types of oozing and bleeding orifices and "male members" sculpted onto his tanks, defilers, demon princes, etc... heh heh. It's pretty foul.
Eeeeewww...



But anyway, great topic. I was actually just thinking about starting one about the WoC giant. Of course, the giant is not for ultra competitive lists, but I am finding they do surprisingly well for me! Believe it or not I just had one perform decently against a 6 warmachine dwarven gunline, and a GT winning High Elf list. I am sure I just got lucky, but he held up to fire better than I thought, and of course absorbed shots that would otherwise be directed at my knights.
Yeah, they do seem good for absorbing shooting.

Draconian77
08-09-2009, 04:44
Technically speaking they are good at attracting shooting, not absorbing it. ;)

An Empire player around here swears by his Giant, he uses it to hunt big monsters(That the cannons don't get first!) and tie up things that Empire units would normally struggle with. Last game saw it destory two units of Bloodletters before collapsing onto a Bloodthirsters and killing it. After reading the rest of the posts, that seems to be a very common occurence. :D

Killboss
08-09-2009, 10:42
If he says his army isn't a gunline I SWEAR I will string him up the Woodend clocktower by his nipples.


I'd like to see it. Oh and don't foget his big unit of Bret archer peasents, or archer cavalry... ;)

eyescrossed
08-09-2009, 10:46
I'd like to see it. Oh and don't foget his big unit of Bret archer peasents, or archer cavalry... ;)

Those annoying, **** weak buggers...

Alatar
08-09-2009, 13:09
ASF Gaints are great, if you can focus his fire then you should be fine. I think they are gamewinners if you can get them into combat.

danny-d-b
08-09-2009, 13:16
I like my giant, so far he has torn apart some white lions, a steg and a tree man and died to gnoblars (rolled pick up and- lost combat- and was run down) and if you shooting at my giant you not shooting at my knights, drogers or mage bunker, and most of the time he regenerates (the joy of having 3 nurgle magers at 2000 points!)

MarcoPollo
08-09-2009, 18:51
Giants are totally worth it, even in competitive games. It just depends upon how you structure your list. For me, I usually don't have alot of things that can take out a monster like a bloodthirster or a ancient treeman. So I need something like a giant to help out. I could also take a hellcannon and sometimes I take both. But the good thing about a giant, is that it is fun.

In alot of competitive play, you get marked for sportsmanship. This can be accomplished by having a laugh at the odd things that occur with a giant. I mean stuffing a goblin down a giant's pants is hilarious any time.

I do think that the MoS is the best set-up. Alot of my competition really dislike it. I prefer to stay away from ogre class models with high strength and mega shooting. In the case of shooting, I just hide him in the back until maybe he gets out.

eyescrossed
08-09-2009, 22:24
In the case of shooting, I just hide him in the back until maybe he gets out.

You do realise that he's a Large Target, and so can be seen over RnF units?

Da Crusha
08-09-2009, 23:35
do you guys think bringing 2 MoS giants in a 2250 pt army would be cheesy because I hate seeing my giant shot down by cannon fire and having 2 really helps assure at least one gets into combat.

also, which attack would a giant use against a harald on a bloodcrusher? I ran into this the other day, my opponent said it was calvary so it should use the small things chart, but I thought since it has a 50mm base, and ogres (who qualify for the big things chart) have a 40mm base, then he should use the big things chart.

Nurgling Chieftain
08-09-2009, 23:42
Models on juggernauts are normal, US2 cavalry despite the larger base. This is stated in the codex.

geldedgoat
09-09-2009, 05:17
That's another thing - aside from the painting, how would you make a giant from the plastic kit Slaaneshi? I'm not going to greenstuff a certain male appendage onto it either...

Slaanesh isn't just in the business of handing out obscenely large johnsons and odd numbers of breasts. He's/She's/It's the god/goddess of excess, so what kind of excess do you think a giant would find himself involved in? A good many of a giant's special attacks involve eating something or stashing it away to eat it later, so just convert that humongous belly into a big, extra mouth. And as an added bonus, if you make it scary and bloody enough, I would think that mutation could easily pass for a gift from any of the gods (should you decide to change marks some time in the future).

eyescrossed
09-09-2009, 05:25
Slaanesh isn't just in the business of handing out obscenely large johnsons and odd numbers of breasts. He's/She's/It's the god/goddess of excess, so what kind of excess do you think a giant would find himself involved in? A good many of a giant's special attacks involve eating something or stashing it away to eat it later, so just convert that humongous belly into a big, extra mouth. And as an added bonus, if you make it scary and bloody enough, I would think that mutation could easily pass for a gift from any of the gods (should you decide to change marks some time in the future).

Or I could make him an extremely drunk Giant :D

Classical Mushroom
09-09-2009, 08:38
I find giants to be great fun in all games. As most people here have already said MoS is an amazing choice i like to think the giant is so drunk he's just dancing around the battlefield. Also MoK is nice as it makes him str 7 which allows him to smash chariots in one hit.

Anyway they are well worth the points IMO as they bring great fun to the game and can deal some serious damage to the enemies army :)

eyescrossed
09-09-2009, 09:21
Also MoK is nice as it makes him str 7 which allows him to smash chariots in one hit.

I have to politely disagree, as it costs 40 (or is it 30?) points and only affects one of the Giant's attacks.

Classical Mushroom
09-09-2009, 09:28
I have to politely disagree, as it costs 40 (or is it 30?) points and only affects one of the Giant's attacks.

I believe its only 30 tho could be wrong haven't got the book on me. Also it affects two attacks :p how dare you half its greatness :D

Tho MoS is still better im my view as it gives you a shot at greater daemons (well apart for a KoS)

eyescrossed
09-09-2009, 09:50
I believe its only 30 tho could be wrong haven't got the book on me. Also it affects two attacks :p how dare you half its greatness :D

Tho MoS is still better im my view as it gives you a shot at greater daemons (well apart for a KoS)

Agreed. :)

MarcoPollo
09-09-2009, 22:17
You do realise that he's a Large Target, and so can be seen over RnF units?

Sure, but you can still hide him behind terrain. And you can deploy in such a way as to hammer things that break into the rear of your lines. Also, an MSU approach provides alot of targets for gunlines to choose from, thus making a giant only one of many possible targets.

You just have to bring him out later in the game if at all.

You really can't beat the funny story line "factor" of a giant though.

eyescrossed
10-09-2009, 00:18
Okay... Noob question, but what does MSU stand for?

Avian
10-09-2009, 05:57
Mostly Small Units

eyescrossed
10-09-2009, 06:05
Ah, I see.