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Mozzamanx
06-09-2009, 16:35
Ello,

I'm planning to build a model of Lion El'Jonson, and have quite a nice concept sketch knocked up. However, something that's very obvious about it, is that it's lacking equipment.

Obviously, he had a very tasty sword, but that seems to be his only weapon in artwork or models of him. Are there any references to him having any backup weaponry, such as Mortarion's Lantern, or even a humble Bolter?

Thanks for any help.

grissom2006
06-09-2009, 18:35
He does fight with a bolter in the HH books.

Iuris
06-09-2009, 20:45
I am rather certain ALL of the Primarchs were created with opposable thumbs and were therefore capable of gripping a variety of weapons.

They may have had favourite weapons, but I'm sure each and every one had a whole arsenal to himself...

So, go for anything that looks really good :)

aeoglas
06-09-2009, 20:48
Helm of the lion, without a doubt. Some of the bits off the high elf noble/prince sprue may be useful, especially if you plan to put him on a bike. (the horse also makes for a nice rending pony to lol)

Urath
06-09-2009, 22:01
Lion Helm, Lion Sword, Power/Artificer Armour, Bolter.

I'll look through Fallen Angels tomorrow and type up a description of his armour.

Argastes
06-09-2009, 22:42
I am rather certain ALL of the Primarchs were created with opposable thumbs and were therefore capable of gripping a variety of weapons.

They may have had favourite weapons, but I'm sure each and every one had a whole arsenal to himself...

So, go for anything that looks really good

QFT.

The Dark Angels section in the old AOD codex had an illustration that one might presume to be of the Lion; it showed him in terminator armor with a huge sword sheathed at his side, a lightning claw or powerfist on one hand, and a huge combi-plasma type weapon in the other. I'm sure he used many different weapons in various battles, and wore many different suits of armor.

Urath
06-09-2009, 23:43
That goes without saying.

But to capture the difinitive image of the Primarch: I think that is the real question.

ashc
07-09-2009, 00:23
It looks as though most, if not all the primarchs had a wide range of personal weapons at their disposal.

Aranel
07-09-2009, 12:42
According to Falln Angels, he had black power armour and a breastplate showing him wrestling the calibanite lion.

Condottiere
07-09-2009, 12:47
Sounds like Heracles.

Too bad you can't give him the facial features of Kevin Sorbo.

Urath
07-09-2009, 12:54
That would be awesome.

ashc
07-09-2009, 12:56
in that case by the same logic, does Marneus Calgar have the face of Chuck Norris? :confused:

Onisuzume
07-09-2009, 13:08
QFT.

The Dark Angels section in the old AOD codex had an illustration that one might presume to be of the Lion; it showed him in terminator armor with a huge sword sheathed at his side, a lightning claw or powerfist on one hand, and a huge combi-plasma type weapon in the other. I'm sure he used many different weapons in various battles, and wore many different suits of armor.
And if you examine that picture closely you'll notice that Ezekiel is there as well, thus that cannot be the Lion. At least, if we're both refering to the same picture (the one on page 5, right? The same one as on page 13 of the current C:DA.).

in that case by the same logic, does Marneus Calgar have the face of Chuck Norris?
Not unless Calgar is described to have either a beard, or a fist instead of a chin. :p

ashc
07-09-2009, 13:17
Not unless Calgar is described to have either a beard, or a fist instead of a chin. :p

It's not only a fist, its a POWERfist instead of a chin.

Oh, and his powerfists fire powerfists at people. POW! ULTRAMARINES!

LexxBomb
08-09-2009, 03:16
QFT.

The Dark Angels section in the old AOD codex had an illustration that one might presume to be of the Lion; it showed him in terminator armor with a huge sword sheathed at his side, a lightning claw or powerfist on one hand, and a huge combi-plasma type weapon in the other. I'm sure he used many different weapons in various battles, and wore many different suits of armor.

Thats either Azrael or whats his name the Master of the Deathwing...


if your doing a Johnson conversion make sure you use the sword from Cypher as that it the Lion Sword... well I used it as a scabbard.

Didb't Johnson also wear his Talbard from the Order over his armour when he took over the legion.

=Angel=
15-09-2009, 01:16
So, go for anything that looks really good :)
QFT again.

I'd go for his off hand gesturing, as he directs the battle. You could hang a bolter at his hip and have his sword held loosely, ready to be swung.

Alternatively a plasma gun would be just as good, and probably more Dark Angely.

Onisuzume
15-09-2009, 12:30
Alternatively a plasma gun would be just as good, and probably more Dark Angely.
Or rather: 3rd edition DA-ish.

LexxBomb
15-09-2009, 12:54
wouldn't that be 2nd ed given that almost all of the Robed DA characters were done then.

Argastes
15-09-2009, 15:33
Thats either Azrael or whats his name the Master of the Deathwing...

It's not Azrael and it's probably not Belial (Master of the Deathwing), due to the extreme over-the-topness of his wargear and weapons. It's not clear who it IS from the picture, but I think Lion El'Jonson is a plausible guess.

http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp242/johnhackworth86/006049839.jpg

That gigantic sword with the elaborate hilt could easily be the Lion Sword, too.

LexxBomb
15-09-2009, 15:39
except that near him Ezekial and Brother Bethor can clearly be seen (in the full image).

but then again this is just conjecture on our behalf... I think it should be Belial, because Belial originaly had a Sword and a lightning claw.

Argastes
15-09-2009, 16:12
except that near him Ezekial and Brother Bethor can clearly be seen (in the full image).

Can they? I don't have my AOD codex with me (if someone could post a scan of the full pic that'd be great), but I don't remember there being anyone else who could clearly be identified as a present-day Dark Angel. The likenesses would have be pretty striking for us to conclude that the guys in question really are Bethor and Ezekiel, rather than just a standard-bearer and a librarian. I think it it would be particularly hard to identify a standard-bearer as Bethor, because he literally just looks like a tactical marine in a robe with a banner.


but then again this is just conjecture on our behalf... I think it should be Belial, because Belial originaly had a Sword and a lightning claw.

Where's this from? He's not in the 2nd or 3rd Edition codices as a special character, and unless I'm mistaken, he doesn't have that wargear combo in the current codex.

Suicide Messiah
15-09-2009, 16:40
he guy in that drawing holding up a tyranid head? Meaning it couldnt be the lion anyway.

Anyway, id probably go for a bolter. A really flash looking one mind you. Maybe even twin linked or somthing to make it that little bit spesh.

Onisuzume
15-09-2009, 16:52
except that near him Ezekial and Brother Bethor can clearly be seen (in the full image).

but then again this is just conjecture on our behalf... I think it should be Belial, because Belial originaly had a Sword and a lightning claw.
Which I had already pointed out several posts upwards...
And I also stated that the exact same picture from C:AoD is also in the newest C: DA.

Maybe even twin linked or somthing to make it that little bit spesh.
You mean a Combi-Bolter? ;)
(Storm Bolters didn't exist during the Great Crusade. Not sure about the HH though.)

Where's this from? He's not in the 2nd or 3rd Edition codices as a special character, and unless I'm mistaken, he doesn't have that wargear combo in the current codex.
Original Storm of Vengeance campaign booklet?

Argastes
15-09-2009, 17:37
he guy in that drawing holding up a tyranid head? Meaning it couldnt be the lion anyway.

It's not clear that it's a Tyranid head, could easily be some sort of daemon. It's just a horned/spined gribbly with big fangs. Remember that there are far more types of daemons than the handful that we see represented in the rules and on the tabletop. It looks rather similar to the Slaaneshi daemon that gets pulled out of the Cannoness in the Ephrael Stern graphic novel, for instance.

Emperor's Grace
15-09-2009, 20:28
Wasn't he pictured as this (below) in the CCG?

(and yes, I'm aware it's got a few issues. Not saying it's right just that that's what they called it...)

TheDarkDaff
15-09-2009, 21:55
It's not Azrael and it's probably not Belial (Master of the Deathwing), due to the extreme over-the-topness of his wargear and weapons. It's not clear who it IS from the picture, but I think Lion El'Jonson is a plausible guess.

http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp242/johnhackworth86/006049839.jpg

That gigantic sword with the elaborate hilt could easily be the Lion Sword, too.

Definately not the Lion as the armour is the wrong colour. Terminators only got bone white armour after the plains world incident. Also the 2nd Ed Codex (and 3rd for that matter) it couldn't be Belial as he was Captain of the 3rd Company. It could be the previous Master of the Deathwing (although i can't remember his name or even if he was named at all).

Argastes
15-09-2009, 22:33
Definately not the Lion as the armour is the wrong colour. Terminators only got bone white armour after the plains world incident.

Uhhhhhhhh... it's a black and white picture. You can't tell in the slightest what color his armor is.

Lion El Jason
15-09-2009, 22:48
Thats either Azrael or whats his name the Master of the Deathwing...


It's supposed to be Azrael... but like all Blanch art its really bad.


It's not Azrael and it's probably not Belial (Master of the Deathwing), due to the extreme over-the-topness of his wargear and weapons. It's not clear who it IS from the picture, but I think Lion El'Jonson is a plausible guess.


The weapons match azrael, he just has a badly drawn claw for no reason.


except that near him Ezekial and Brother Bethor can clearly be seen (in the full image).

but then again this is just conjecture on our behalf... I think it should be Belial, because Belial originaly had a Sword and a lightning claw.

Huh? where are you getting that from? IIRC Belial never had that weapon loadout.


Definately not the Lion as the armour is the wrong colour. Terminators only got bone white armour after the plains world incident. Also the 2nd Ed Codex (and 3rd for that matter) it couldn't be Belial as he was Captain of the 3rd Company. It could be the previous Master of the Deathwing (although i can't remember his name or even if he was named at all).

Meh, the "Plainsworld incident" has basically been junked by GW as "just a tory"




Anyway... El'Jonson had a bolt pistol. It's from his training in The Order where they had BP/chainsword.

Argastes
15-09-2009, 22:58
It's supposed to be Azrael... but like all Blanch art its really bad.

Pssh, philistine. Seriously though, Azrael in terminator armor? With a triple-barreled gun and a huge power claw? The weapons hardly match Azrael with any kind of precision; the closest they come is that the include a big sword and a multi-barreled gun, and that's hardly exclusive to Azrael. If you admit that the wargear is all wrong, and it doesn't at all look like him, where are you getting the idea that it's supposed to be Azrael in the first place? To me that's like looking at a drawing of a car and saying "yeah this picture is supposed to be of a helicopter, they just got everything wrong, but a helicopter is what it's meant to be".

TheDarkDaff
16-09-2009, 09:07
Uhhhhhhhh... it's a black and white picture. You can't tell in the slightest what color his armor is.

Except that the Lion's armour is supposed to be black and picture has white armour (look at the greaves). It is still pretty easy to pick the difference between black armour and white armour in a black and white picture. I also doubt that Dark Angels Green would be represented by white in a black and white picture (even though they only adopted this colour after the split into chapters).

Have a closer look at the gun the guy is holding. It looks like a stormbolter at first but also appears to have an underslung plasma gun (the Lion's Wrath is just a straight combi-plasma gun).

Onisuzume
16-09-2009, 09:50
Definately not the Lion as the armour is the wrong colour. Terminators only got bone white armour after the plains world incident.
Its Ash White, not bone white...
And that also makes a lot more sense than bone white.

except that near him Ezekial and Brother Bethor can clearly be seen (in the full image).
I can't really discern Bethor though...

It's not clear that it's a Tyranid head, could easily be some sort of daemon. It's just a horned/spined gribbly with big fangs.
It does have enough similarities with 2nd edition Tyranids though...

TheDarkDaff
16-09-2009, 10:15
Its Ash White, not bone white...
And that also makes a lot more sense than bone white.

Every time the Deathwing are mentioned in Angels of Death it referss to their "bone white armour". I agree it should be ash white seeing as that is actually how they made their armour white in the first place but it isn't what we get told.

Argastes
16-09-2009, 11:11
Except that the Lion's armour is supposed to be black and picture has white armour (look at the greaves). It is still pretty easy to pick the difference between black armour and white armour in a black and white picture. I also doubt that Dark Angels Green would be represented by white in a black and white picture (even though they only adopted this colour after the split into chapters).

I guess this must be in the eye of the beholder, because when I look at the greaves in that picture, they are too covered in bling to draw much of a conclusion about their actual color--I definitely wouldn't say they are "white--and in fact John Blanche's black-and-white art often fails to accurately reflect color with shading anyhow.


Have a closer look at the gun the guy is holding. It looks like a stormbolter at first but also appears to have an underslung plasma gun (the Lion's Wrath is just a straight combi-plasma gun).

We don't know what that third barrel is supposed to be; the only thing suggested that it might be a plasma gun is the fact that it's barrel housing has a curve to it's cross-sectional shape, which IMO isn't enough to draw a firm conclusion. I would just say it's a big triple-barreled combi-weapon of some sort. Not that I'm ruling out a plasma gun, of course, just saying that it's far from clear.