PDA

View Full Version : Using Razorbacks



hendybadger
07-09-2009, 13:45
In a Blood Angel army I can see how Rhinos and Drop Pods can be great.
But Im unsure about Razorbacks.
Do you use them?
If so- How?, Transporting who? and armed with what?

Mercer
07-09-2009, 13:57
I use them with combat squads, sgt with power weapon or a-like goes with special weapon in the razorback. The transport makes up mostly for the lack of firepower from a full blown squad, once the unit has disembarked it can be used as a pillbox to provide covering fire support.

They can be annoying, though I would only take heavy bolters. The other upgrades are too expensive and attract attention.

Giganthrax
07-09-2009, 14:00
I play codex marines, and I always give a razorback to my defensive tactical squad. These guys usually sit in terrain somewhere, guarding an objective, and hopefully killing stuff with their plasmacannon and their plasmagun.

The razorback complements them well, as it serves as a mobile heavy weapon, mobile terrain (I often use it to give cover saves to my land raider, especially during deployment), and sometimes as a means to transport combat squads.

I also use the razorback as the transport for my plasmagun command squad. Due to the 12" effective range of plasmaguns, I can usually move 6" with the razorback before disembarking (totalling to an 18" threat range, which is more then enough most of the time), so this means I'm never robbed of the heavy bolter.

The cool thing about the razorback is that people almost always ignore it and go after the really dangerous stuff. This means that cheap razorback will be shooting enemy troops and light vehicles (it can glance armor 11, and stands an okay chance of doing something nasty to armor 10) for the whole of the game, usually unmolested. Thanks to this, I found my razorback doing severe damage on some battles, getting its points + much more back.

Finally, if someone shoots at your razorback, all the better. It means they aren't shooting at your good stuff. :)

Doppleskanger
07-09-2009, 14:00
A cheap(ish) twin linked Las cannon is always a good investment. My theory on this is that you can do without predators if you have enough razorbacks and Dreds with lascannons, and by doing it you save loads of points. The idea being that although you loose armour you have enough las cannons to effectively stop enemy tanks from shooting you. The thing with Blood Angels is that you can only take razor backs with Tac squads, honour guard, Devastators and tech marines. And you probably want to keep the jump packs on the honour guard so...4 squads of 5 tacs with four las cannon razorbacks. Maybe a squad or two of Devastators also. Use the troops to keep your own objectives and use the razorbacks and dreds or Preds to keep the enemy from shooting you. Then send forth all your nasty cc units. Nice!

hendybadger
07-09-2009, 14:12
My Dreads are Furioso and my Preds are Baal. So I lack in Lascannons already.

mughi3
08-09-2009, 09:52
They are cheap mobile heavy weapon support. for the price of a fully outfited baal you can get 2 las razors and make your enemy spread his AT fire more. given the weak side armor on a pred, razors are just as easy or hard to kill if you use cover properly.

in the end it really depends on what else is in your army as to how effective it will be. as noted prior combat squading works wonders.

a buddy of mine uses his tactical squads as an anchor and fire support with the ability to rush out and grab objectives if needed. while his podding deathcompany, furioso, venerable dreads and his death company proper eat the enemies army.

Doppleskanger
08-09-2009, 11:51
Well if you have Baals and Furiosos then it makes a lot of sense to get Lascannon razorbacks, if you can squeeze them in. If you take a small squad of Devastors, maybe just 5 with 2 lascannons and a razorback, then two squads of 10 Tac Marines with a Lascannon each and split them into combat squads and take 2 Las Razorbacks, you've suddenly gained 3 twl linked Lascannons and 4 shoulder mounted ones. Not a huge investment in points and would be enough to totally suppress incoming fire.

Petay1985
08-09-2009, 11:59
I use them with combat squads, sgt with power weapon or a-like goes with special weapon in the razorback. The transport makes up mostly for the lack of firepower from a full blown squad, once the unit has disembarked it can be used as a pillbox to provide covering fire support.
They can be annoying, though I would only take heavy bolters. The other upgrades are too expensive and attract attention.

Exactly how i use mine, works well and allows the combat squad (with power weapon & specials weapon) to be mobile and effective whilst the 2nd cobat squad holds back providing covering fire!!

NOTE: see free download of imperial armour 2 update on the forgeworld site for revised vehicle costs too!! :)

carldooley
08-09-2009, 12:54
I run a dreadhed list (5x Dreads with 2x TL Autocannons) and I LOVE razorbacks. If you run razorbacks behind them, with TLOS, the vehicle has total concealment and the turret has a clear shot at about anything as it can clearly shoot over my dreads.

hendybadger
08-09-2009, 22:12
Is it possible to run a fully rounded Blood Angels army without ever using a Razorback?

BrotherMoses
09-09-2009, 03:44
Remember as a Blood Angel that your Razorbacks do not recieve the over-charged engines special rule like your rhinos.

Personally, I plan to maybe get a razorback for my command squad, but other than that I'm not too worried about it.

AmasNagol
09-09-2009, 03:47
Good for transporting Corbulo + combat squad/Honour Guard.

Good for transporting VAS on foot as well.

hendybadger
09-09-2009, 06:43
I think VAS sould maily be keeo wit jump packs.
And the Honour Guard deserve more than a lowly Razor.
But if they were to use a Razor would you give it Lacannon, HBs or use the new FW rules and have ACs to match the Baal Preds?

mughi3
09-09-2009, 09:43
Las cannons. with DC and DC dreads you have more than enough anti-infantry killing power you need some ranged punch for big stuff and it helps the thin skinned razors survive by being farther away.

Also random overcharged engines are not what they neeed to begin with.

hendybadger
09-09-2009, 14:24
Maybe a mix of Lascannons and something else? Want to unit to look good and be versatile

Finn
09-09-2009, 19:44
I run a dreadhed list (5x Dreads with 2x TL Autocannons) and I LOVE razorbacks. If you run razorbacks behind them, with TLOS, the vehicle has total concealment and the turret has a clear shot at about anything as it can clearly shoot over my dreads.

Pray tell, how exactly does that work? Please tell me you're not shooting over the top of your dreadnoughts and then claiming that you can't be shot in return :cool:.

carldooley
09-09-2009, 20:28
no, but it is enjoyable being able to claim a cover save while denying one to my opponent.

hendybadger
09-09-2009, 23:14
Thats a very good point.

Archangel_Ruined
10-09-2009, 00:15
They're handy, TL lascannons can fill in long range AT for an assault orientated army, TL heavy bolters are a very handy tool for chipping away at enemy infantry. One of their great strengths is their relative cruddiness though: They're cheap enough to sacrifice. Need to shelter your devastator squad from one of theirs? Park the tank in the way. Dreadnought or assault squad making a run out in the open? Send a couple of razorbacks out there to draw fire or block LOS. Most opponents aren't expecting you to give up a tank so easily so they shoot at them, often in preference to more valuable targets. I rate razorbacks, they're not vital but there are some builds that they really suit.

hendybadger
10-09-2009, 08:35
I am now thinking about adding 2. One for my foot slogging Houour Guard and one for my Devs.
Unless I up the Devs to 10 which Im unsure about

FunkyRatDemon
10-09-2009, 08:52
As a old-school Marine player. The Razorback is my favorite transport.
I run them primarily as preemptive firing to help reduce wound allocation before larger squads shoot. Hence why the Heavy Bolter is the supreme choice.

The role of the Heavy Bolter should no longer be put in squads of Marines, even Devestators are better used otherwise (if at all), so the Razorback fills the role of 'HB plug'. The AV11 makes it much more immune to most shooting, and if shot it usually distracts a squad from shooting your more invaluable squad nearby.

Lascannons make it too costly, and most Marines today pack plenty of Meltas anyways to tank hunt, with the occassional Lascannon on Dread or in a single squad

Assault Cannons are an edition to late

Lascannon+Plasmanguns suffers from mixed role ineffectivness. A weapon destroyed kills both, and the S7 can't do much to Heavy Tanks (AV13 or AV14), so its better used to kills Monstrous Creatures or 2+save models, and squads can do that better in most cases

Petay1985
10-09-2009, 11:19
I have found that a Razorback can compliment a Devestator Squad rather well, as long as they have complimenting weaponry, i think there are 2 main schools of thought on this:
1. Razorback is Anti-Infantry or Anti-Vehicle & Devastators are the Opposite
or
2. Razorback & Devastators have the same role (anti-tank or anti-infantry)

Also be sure to consider the range on the weapins when trying to create a synergy between the razorback and the devastator squad. For example a multi-melta is 24" and a lascannon 72" not an ideal linking if you planning on sitting well back and firing at long range.

In regards to anti-infantry i have found that in the devastator squad 2 plasma cannons & 2 heavy bolters works rather well, this could be backed up with a Heavy Bolter to increase anti-infantry firepower (horde armies beware) or a twin linked lascannon to make up for the anti-armour the squad is lacking, you get the idea....

hendybadger
10-09-2009, 18:14
I have a BA force so what I would need more is anti-tank. i have more that enough anti-infantry mainly in assault.

But what to arm the Devs and Razor with to acomplish this?

Archangel_Ruined
10-09-2009, 21:06
I run two types of devasator squads, either 4 heavy bolters for ultimate troop shredding or 3MLs and a Lascannon for solid anti everything. With the HB squad I'd run TL HB's for even more firey death, if you've decided that's what the squad will be doing then make them the best troop killers going. With the all rounder unit I'd field the lascannon, another S9 weapon will help them against heavy armor. Either weapon would work though, as you can just split the razorback from the squad and let it do it's own thing anyway.

hendybadger
10-09-2009, 22:29
So a Razor back with the 5 Devs is much better than adding another 5 Marines?

Finn
10-09-2009, 22:37
5 naked marines...In some cases, I'd rather have the razorback. I never use the lascannon variant anymore (the only one I "had" was a lascannon/twin-plasma turret that I acquired JUST before the 4th edition codex - imagine my displeasure). The twin-HB is the only one worth its points IMO - in most cases. Though I may consider using the lascannon/twin-plasma sometime just for fun.

hendybadger
10-09-2009, 22:54
What are the pros and cons of each choice?

jb85
10-09-2009, 22:57
So a Razor back with the 5 Devs is much better than adding another 5 Marines?

Debatable. Five extra marines and you can split the Devestator squad and take on two targets a turn. I would also say that the five marines are more durable than a Razorback. On the flip side the Razorback gives cover, extra weapons and mobility (not a huge plus for a Devestator squad). On balance I would say dont go for a Razorback on the Devs.

As for the topic of Rzorbacks overall I have had reasonable results running a pair of them with two full tactical squads. The combat squads with heavy weapons stay back and form a firebase with my other support units. The Razorbacks and combat squads, veteran sergants and special weapons act as back up to my assualt elements/go for objectives etc.

Finn
10-09-2009, 22:57
Pro: TL-HB
Pro: Cheap
Con: Can't take on armored targets all that well

Pro: TL-LC
Pro: Killy-ish against armor, particularly other transports
Con: Oppressive points cost
Con: May leave you short on anti-horde

I think that about sums it up :p. Oh, and I don't know anybody who actually puts a squad in the LC variant. It's simply too expensive to make it more of a target by putting a squad inside and running it forward, so you lose some army mobility there too.

hendybadger
10-09-2009, 23:07
What about the TL AC version?

Finn
10-09-2009, 23:31
I've never used it or seen it used, nor contemplated using it...so you've got me on that one.

senorcardgage
11-09-2009, 04:42
NOTE: see free download of imperial armour 2 update on the forgeworld site for revised vehicle costs too!! :)

What the hell? Free to exchange the heavy bolters for multi meltas? That's ridiculous.

mughi3
11-09-2009, 09:12
I keep seeing comments on points cost for the las loadout....it is still one of the cheapest ways to get a las cannon on a marine vehicle and twin linked to boot. you want over prices look at the las/las pred.

Also because it has a las your opponant cannnot just ignore it like he can with HBs if he has some high toughness or high AV unit.

Finn
11-09-2009, 09:53
The point is you want him to ignore it so it can do some damage.

Yeah, twin-linked at BS4 is pretty awesome, but BS4 is still damn good. It may be one of the cheapest ways to get a twin-linked lascannon, but that doesn't mean you should be going for twin-linked lascannons. Honestly, your anti-tank is better accomplished by meltas with mobility, and if it's an opponent that can steer clear of your meltas (fast vehicles) you can take them out with missile launchers, which are decently priced (or free).