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Eternus
07-09-2009, 15:53
I currently have 2 units of 19 Chaos Warriors, each with full command - forgetting the full command, should I split them into 3 units, one unit of 14 and 2 units of 12?

I ask because many people seem to be of the opinion that smaller units are better.

Thanks.

Avian
07-09-2009, 16:08
If you want a rank bonus, take cheap models (i.e. Marauders) and not ones where you are paying 80+ points for a single point of CR.

Gaargod
07-09-2009, 18:21
a) Don't take chaos warriors. Sorry, but knights are so much better - warriors are slow and expensive, even if they do hit hard. Marauders fill up core (most likely horsemen) and provide ranks if you want it.

b) If you must take them, keep to units of 12 or so. Give them halberds and shields and mark of either slaanesh or khorne.


The problem with bigger units is that they cost a ton but are too easily avoided - or baited, if khorne. And whilst chaos warriors are great, if they get multiple charges on them by hard hitting things, they will disappear.

Condottiere
07-09-2009, 18:25
I doubt that size matters to Chaos Warriors.

The local Chaotic player likes to make his formations broad, but rather skinny in ranks, maybe 2x7 at most.

Seville
08-09-2009, 02:18
a) Don't take chaos warriors. Sorry, but knights are so much better - warriors are slow and expensive, even if they do hit hard. Marauders fill up core (most likely horsemen) and provide ranks if you want it.


More intarwebz wisdom from someone who probably doesn't even play.

Warriors are tremendously tough. Every game I've taken them in, I don't regret it. Granted, I probably never would take more than 2 units of them, but, wow are they good for hanging around and taking a beating. I've had a 15 man squad of warriors with MoS and the rapturous standard hang around while surrounded on all sides before...

Well, to answer your question, 6x2 is generally the most effective setup for them, although I swear I've done quite well with a 3x5. The 3x5 is almost always still around at the end of the game. Banner of Rage, War Banner, and Rapturous Standard are all good flags to take, but I'd only recommend it if you take the 3x5.

Eternus
08-09-2009, 07:55
Thanks to all for your input. I've decided to go for one unit of 14 (2 x 7) and 2 units of 12 (2 x 6), and I'll see how I go - at the very least, it'll give more flexability and force opponents to split their attentions. I have a couple of large Marauder units anyway, so they can be the Anvil, and my Warriors will be the Hammer.

apbevan
08-09-2009, 17:12
2x7 with 25mm bases is not that great unless your fighting alot of other 25mm opponents. Its unwieldy without offering much benefit.
With 14 models depending on how they are equipped it would be better to have 15 or 14+character, perhaps a BSB, as a solid core.

Condottiere
08-09-2009, 21:25
2x7 may include the BSB, as well as the War banner, and should usually be placed either in the centre or near your opponent's main concentration of troops.

Eternus
09-09-2009, 07:51
2x7 with 25mm bases is not that great unless your fighting alot of other 25mm opponents. Its unwieldy without offering much benefit.
With 14 models depending on how they are equipped it would be better to have 15 or 14+character, perhaps a BSB, as a solid core.


2x7 may include the BSB, as well as the War banner, and should usually be placed either in the centre or near your opponent's main concentration of troops.

Will do - as you say, may as well include a Hero or Battle Standard and make up 15 for 3 ranks.

Thanks.

Classical Mushroom
09-09-2009, 08:47
I've always found if you want your warriors to deal the pain then 12 in 6x2 is your best bet. Don't forget your great weapons!! :p

Eternus
09-09-2009, 09:11
I've always found if you want your warriors to deal the pain then 12 in 6x2 is your best bet. Don't forget your great weapons!! :p

I have some with HW + Sheild for pure durability, and others with additional HW's, because at Strength 4, the extra attacks should make a mess out of most things.

Classical Mushroom
09-09-2009, 09:31
I have some with HW + Sheild for pure durability, and others with additional HW's, because at Strength 4, the extra attacks should make a mess out of most things.

Always a good option when facing squishy things :) tho i face alot of tough heavy armored gits hence why i sleep with a big axe under my pillow :p

AndyGI
09-09-2009, 09:47
I got off a flank charge with my warriors with halberds last week, against orc boyz with 2 hand weapons, I can't remember whether i killed 9 or 11 in one go.

Thats with a 6x2 formation.

The important thing is the frontage, you need to make sure every model can get in contact with something so they can fight, hence why 6 works really well. 7 CAN work against 25mm based stuff, but as previously said, its a bit too unwieldy and difficult to move.

eyescrossed
09-09-2009, 10:22
In a unit of 12, is it worth sacrificing 2 attacks (5x2 with 2 at the back rather than 6x2) for a definite point of CR?

Eternus
09-09-2009, 10:35
In a unit of 12, is it worth sacrificing 2 attacks (5x2 with 2 at the back rather than 6x2) for a definite point of CR?

If the two Warriors at the back would not be in contact anyway due the enemy unit being narrower, then yes I suppose. They can always increase/decrease ranks to suit the turn before CC breaks out.

eyescrossed
09-09-2009, 10:39
If the two Warriors at the back would not be in contact anyway due the enemy unit being narrower, then yes I suppose. They can always increase/decrease ranks to suit the turn before CC breaks out.

Good point.

Avian
09-09-2009, 10:44
In a unit of 12, is it worth sacrificing 2 attacks (5x2 with 2 at the back rather than 6x2) for a definite point of CR?
If I understand it correctly, you are talking about

XXXXXX
XXXXXX

vs.

XXXXX
XXXXX
_XX

In that case, you lose 2 attacks per turn in order to have one extra spare guy before your rank bonus goes down.

Doesn't seem worth it to me. If you end up in a situation where you really want that +1 CR and have the option of getting it by moving guys back from the front rank, you can always reduce frontage at that point. I wouldn't start the unit off in that formation, no.

Heck, if you want one extra guy before your rank bonus drops, buy a thirteenth warrior, place him in the third rank by himself and get both width and another spare guy.

eyescrossed
09-09-2009, 11:01
If I understand it correctly, you are talking about

XXXXXX
XXXXXX

vs.

XXXXX
XXXXX
_XX

In that case, you lose 2 attacks per turn in order to have one extra spare guy before your rank bonus goes down.

Doesn't seem worth it to me. If you end up in a situation where you really want that +1 CR and have the option of getting it by moving guys back from the front rank, you can always reduce frontage at that point. I wouldn't start the unit off in that formation, no.

Heck, if you want one extra guy before your rank bonus drops, buy a thirteenth warrior, place him in the third rank by himself and get both width and another spare guy.

Fair enough.

Condottiere
09-09-2009, 12:14
Six or seven files usually depends on what you plan on sending them after. Infantry and cavalry with 1" bases, you want to face them with seven. Default infantry 0.8" base with five files, a six file width would be most efficient.

zerachiel
10-09-2009, 05:23
In general, I find 12 Warriors units to be most efficient, both for 6-wide and 7-wide. Taking 14 Warriors 7x2 can result in unwieldy formations that can get dual-charged or blocked from combat by a single model to the side much easier than 6x2. If you end up needing a 7-wide frontage, you can simply go 7/5 with the 12-man regiment, as that 1 point is not too important (and probably lost by the point you get to them anyway). A 14-man unit going in with 6/6/2 doesn't benefit from it, and spent 30+ points to have 2 extra wounds before you lose a +1 (which costs more than just buying a War Banner).

This has already been established, but please do not disregard Warriors for Knights. Knights are insanely fragile and need to be baby-sat constantly. Casualties result in immediate loss of killing power, and half-points and <5 unit strength can happen very quickly. They're flanking units that work best when charging into a combat already happening, hunting solo/monstrous units, or fighting things not adept at fighting back.

GenerationTerrorist
10-09-2009, 10:51
I run mine as either 6*2 or 7*2 with just the Standard and Musician. Take the Banner of Rage on one of the units if you have the points spare.