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View Full Version : HELP!! New Army Selection, Cost vs Points



Crimson Templar
07-09-2009, 20:23
I need some help from the fantasy group here. I am a long time 40k player and my son has shown some interest in Fantasy. I am on a very limited budget and was wondering if I could get some help / opinions on

A) Good armies to learn with
B) Armies that stay fun after you have learned the mechanics of the game and.....
C) Which armies do you get the most bang for your buck...ie in the 40k world, marine armies generally have the most points per $, while Orks and Guard have less points per $.

I would like to be able to start a couple of small armies for me and my son, but not have to spend a ton to do it. I know Ebay is an option, but I want to look at dollars to points.

Sparda
07-09-2009, 20:29
Ogre Kingdoms would be hard for a begginer but a 2000 point force is only $150 if you get it from the warstore. Empire and Orcs are both easy to learn , with pretty much every phase included in the game and enough models to lose some and still win.

kyinpie
07-09-2009, 20:45
i learnt useing tomb kings. a hard army to learn, but a very fun and challanging army to use once you have mastered them! doller to point ratio would be the ogre kingdoms and possibly dwarfs.

the choice you make depends on play style, models, fluff, etc. just have a look through the different army books when your next instore.

Crimson Templar
07-09-2009, 20:49
How are Dark Elves $ to Point? I love the new line of plastics!! My son mentioned that he like skeletons, but are the tomb kings a good started for an 8 yr old? I also thought that it would be expensive because of low troop cost. Am I wrong?

kyinpie
07-09-2009, 20:57
i wouldnt recomend tomb kings to an 8yr old! i would say that both undead armies can be a bit pricey!

Darth Alec
07-09-2009, 21:00
TK are an absolutely horrible starter army. Redicilously hard to play with and seriously underpowered. Do not reccomend as a starter army. Vampire Counts are better in this respect, but they still have a lot of abstract (though simple for a grown-up) tactics that need mastering.

I'd say that the Lizardmen are the best starters. Tough as nails, reliable, flexible and awesome-looking. They aren't the best bang-for-buck out there, but you get far with the starter set.

Ogre Kingdoms are excellent for money value, but hard to play with and underpowered. Good for friendly matches, they are quite entertaining to play.

Condottiere
07-09-2009, 21:24
Budgetwise:

1. Second hand models/armies that someone is trying to get rid off, whether locally or at an internet auction.

2. Battle of Skull Pass miniatures, whether Goblins or Dwarves.

You can always proxy and use different army books until you find one that's suitable.

wolf40k
07-09-2009, 21:33
Warriors of Chaos would probably be the best starter army for $ - points. All the troops are expensive point wise and the warriors, knights, and marauders, the army's most plentiful troop choice are all plastic.

They are also fairly easy to play as a strait combat army.

isidril93
07-09-2009, 21:54
what about high elves...i know they can be pricey but they fill the other two criteria

mrtn
07-09-2009, 21:57
Battle for Skull Pass is a good starting point.
As mentioned already, ogres and chaos warriors are cheap money-wise. Though it doesn't beat the second hand market.

Crovax20
07-09-2009, 22:24
I need some help from the fantasy group here. I am a long time 40k player and my son has shown some interest in Fantasy. I am on a very limited budget and was wondering if I could get some help / opinions on

A) Good armies to learn with
B) Armies that stay fun after you have learned the mechanics of the game and.....
C) Which armies do you get the most bang for your buck...ie in the 40k world, marine armies generally have the most points per $, while Orks and Guard have less points per $.

I would like to be able to start a couple of small armies for me and my son, but not have to spend a ton to do it. I know Ebay is an option, but I want to look at dollars to points.


Empire fits A and B. Its a really good army to learn the game with, since it can do stuff in all the phases and can really be fielded in a plethora of ways. You got knights, footsloggers, guns, wizards, tanks. But sadly the army is also pretty expensive if you want infantry. I am getting around 68 swordsmen... so I can field 2 units of 25 each with a 9 swordsmen detachment. So if you are going to field a lot of infantry, the numbers will rack up quite fast and the state troops only come in boxes of 10.

But on the plus side everything is available in plastic, except for a selection of heroes/lords. You get lots of versatility in the army, and can bring a gunline one day and an infantry horde the other provided you invest in it.

Else I would advice any of the Elves, they have quite versatile lists as well.

Zarroc
07-09-2009, 23:44
I wouldnt get ogres as a starter army, regardless of fact there cheap to get, they are not an army for new players, as for tomb kings, they would be to hard to play, there for a more experience person

I think lizardmen would be a pretty good army, well balanced and competes in every phase, also not that expensive to get a basic 2000 point list

Try and avoid armies whos specail choices come in box of 5's, metal models, this is when things start adding up cost wise

Oh and dark elves are awesome, but can be costly

Cypher, the Emperor
08-09-2009, 00:23
Stay away from Empire, Orcs, Undead and Skaven as they all cost a lot.

Good choices woul be Warriors of Chaos, Dark Elves and Brettonia.

All of those armieshave good core troops in plastic and are relatively forgiving in playstyle and such.

I would personally reccommend Brettonia, they are a good list that isnt super powerful, they do all phases of the game and they cover all the major different troop types but have a limited range of options to make i easy to learn how to build a list.

And their bread and butter troops are pretty cheap and in plastic, too.

enygma7
08-09-2009, 00:32
You'll be wanting something fairly elite, something where most of the models are available in plastic and something with a good value battallion box where all the contents are useful. You also want two armies of similar power levels - and if you fancy dark elves it needs to be a fairly recent release as dark elves are generally thought one of the top 3 armies. Plus the more recent armies are good plastics wise.

Dark Elves are a good choice. As an opposition I'd recommend Lizardmen. You can make a very cheap (if vanilla) army for both races simply by buying two battallion boxes and a set of characters. Then you can add support units gradually after your used to playing. Check out some of the online or ebay discount stores for extra value.

Condottiere
08-09-2009, 08:01
In terms of competitiveness and aesthetics, Dark Elves army does bear consideration. The list is flexible and you probably can build any army type that you like, though DE are optimized for attack.

Arguleon-veq
08-09-2009, 14:31
Mounted Warriors of Chaos are easily your best bet. You can pick up an army really cheap. A few boxes of Knights/Dogs/Horsemen will give you a full army with the addition of a couple of mounted Sorcerers.

They are effective and easy to use plus you will have a fairly low model count so it is also easy to assemble/paint.

Tokamak
08-09-2009, 14:40
A stegadon army.

vahouth
08-09-2009, 14:43
Wood elves!
They are good:cool:
Even the humblest unit costs 12 pts i think...

High Loremaster
08-09-2009, 15:13
High Elves can get pricey with all the metal models. Most of your army would be comprised of Dragon Princes, Phoenix Guard, White Lions, and Swordmasters - all metal. Plus a Dragon, if you want to shell out for one.

HE are quite forgiving to new players because of Speed of Asuryan (all High Elves always strike first in combat), but because of that, new players don't really learn how to properly position for charges. HE were my starter army, but that was back in 6th when they were a lot more difficult to play.

Onisuzume
08-09-2009, 17:16
I'd say that the Lizardmen are the best starters. Tough as nails, reliable, flexible and awesome-looking. They aren't the best bang-for-buck out there, but you get far with the starter set.
Seconded.

A stegadon army.
Except for that.
While it doesn't cost that much, it isn't the best to learn the rules with either because it is pretty hit or miss to me (on paper at least).

HE are quite forgiving to new players because of Speed of Asuryan (all High Elves always strike first in combat)
Overpowered little *insert your profanity of choice here*.

orcs of fire
08-09-2009, 17:42
if your not that bothered about converting, i'd say that chaos dwarfs fit that criteria. for a small amount of money, you can get the battle for scull pass set which includes goblins (hobgoblins), dwarfs (chaos dwarfs) dice and rules, plus, the 'armybook' is free on the internet. You dan't have to even convert the models, you could just paint the dwarfs evil looking.

Fraggzy
08-09-2009, 18:24
HE are quite forgiving to new players because of Speed of Asuryan (all High Elves always strike first in combat), but because of that, new players don't really learn how to properly position for charges. HE were my starter army, but that was back in 6th when they were a lot more difficult to play.

I started playing HE in 6th ed too ^.^
Altough i would rather play with them as they were in 6th ed (VERY hard) than as OP as i feel they are now.


Anyhow; why dont you try Bretonnia? :D

You can build a calvary only army, that gives a good $ to points rate, its not hard to play with (i dont know for a starter, as i started with it around my 4th or 5th year into WH). You can also expand the army with pessants and other fun stuff. Like my "pessant army" that mainly consists of pessants and a little calvary :)

Its competitive and fun to play

Condottiere
08-09-2009, 19:13
Bretonnians do allow a mix of hard core cavalry and throwaway infantry, but finding the right combination takes experimentation. But in the end, it usually does rest with the cavalry bus, which may be a little monotonous.

Crimson Templar
08-09-2009, 21:06
Thank you all for the comments. For me the choise will either be Woc, or DE, I have played loyalist 40K and want a complete switch. I just dug out my OLD fantasy stuff that I never played and realized that I have a load of old Orcs and night Gobbos. I may expand on that as teh Skull pass set really would just add that much more to it.

I'll have to see what my son likes. In 40K he is still sort of a gun line/timid player, so the dwarfs may fit his current play style.who knows what will happen in acouple of years though. Right now he may deside that Bakugan is more fun so we'll see.

Please send more comments as I like the feed back on the different armies for a starter.

Thanks

mrtn
08-09-2009, 23:49
I'd just let him take a look at which army is coolest looking.

artyboy
09-09-2009, 04:36
Get on craigslist and do a search for "warhammer". That's the cheapest way to get into a new army. I doubled my vampire counts army for $150 once. That lot included 40 ghouls, 40 skeles, 25 grave guard, a vhargulf, a unit of 5 blood knights, some vampires and I can't even remember what else. I ended up paying about 30% of retail.

Another time I answered some lady's ad that didn't consist of much more than "warhammer 40k space marine stuff...a few boxes worth". The boxes turned out to be huge moving boxes full of brand new, on the sprue space marines. I ended up with 2 land raiders, 3 rhinos, a razorback, a whirlwind, 3 tac squads,a devastator squad, 2 captains, 4 dreads, 10 assault marines and some terminators. I also ended up with some chaos and a sizeable space wolf force that was already painted and assembled that I sold for way more than I paid for everything.

Another time I picked up a big lot of chaos, dark elves and modeling supplies that was all new in the box except for a couple of phenomenally painted figs for $150. I kept the modeling supplies and the dark elves and sold the chaos and painted figs for a lot more than that... Now I have a 3000ish point dark elf army to paint and the supplies to do it with. They cost me nothing.

As for ebay, I usually just search for "insert army here" lot. Usually I just buy a lot, keep what I want, put the rest on ebay and walk away with more money than I spent in the first place.

If you just want to make a good army on the cheap without all of the effort and hassle of looking out for a good deal then lizardmen are your best bet. You can pick up huge lots of old saurus and skinks for a few bucks all day long. If you're just playing friendly games then just get the old skinks w/ bows and treat them as counts as blowpipes. Old slann are always cheap. Old stegadons are usually cheap. Just keep a look out for the deals and you'll be surprised with what you come up with.

artyboy
09-09-2009, 04:42
As for gun line dwarves, it's a very effective army that you can build very cheaply if you use skull pass models. I've been thinking about building a gun line army since cannons and thunderers are stupid cheap on ebay right now. The skull pass models look just as good as the "retail" models.

Condottiere
09-09-2009, 06:36
I find that talking over the army in general, before getting specific on fluff, style and stats, does give a feel how enthusiastic a person is about any particular faction.

mexi can40k
09-09-2009, 07:00
If you are looking for two starter armies I would suggest getting two battle for skull pass sets. a single set comes with a 500 point armie of dwarfs, a 500 point armie of goblins, a rule book and dice.It comes with less dwarfs because they are more powerful and cost more points. And more goblins witch are less powerful but cost less points. But then you could also buy orcs on top of that are more powerful.

Fraggzy
09-09-2009, 07:32
I would advise against making a gunline, it sux playing against it (as it severely limits your tactics). So when people allways see you fielding gunlines they will; A. Not play against you anymore, B. Field an army spesificly made to take down a gunline.

What you realy should do was not to compare the armies in advance, just go to the store and buy the first army (box) that make you think; "wow". I did that and it went good :)

Crimson Templar
10-09-2009, 21:48
Wow, there seem to be a lot of wood elves and Lizardmen on Ebay. How are the woodies to play? I kind of like the look of the army!

wolf40k
10-09-2009, 22:16
I think the trick with wood elves is to make them all elves or all tree spirits(Dryads, treekin, and treemen.) Wood Elves are sometimes called fantasy's 40k army due to its massive amount of shooting compared to other armies.
My personal preference has always been the tree spirit list, It's just lots of hard hitting units, that list has always done me well.

Zarroc
11-09-2009, 03:25
Wow, there seem to be a lot of wood elves and Lizardmen on Ebay. How are the woodies to play? I kind of like the look of the army!

Many people struggle with wood elves, as they cannot use the army correctly, you should really consider your own play style before getting them, if its say, charge, your doomed.... many novice players think they can charge head long at the enemy and win, you cant, you will get pwned every time

Playing wood elves, you need to find the right balance in your list, you need to always be 1 step ahead of your enemy, march blocking, getting onto his flank or rear with fast cav, delaying him reaching your archers until at least turn 4, only engage when you have multiple flank and rear chargers, and more, they are not an army for novice players

Oh and the best wood elf list are balanced, with a mix of each, the best unit is wild riders (they will win most combat for you) and what ever you do, dont take eternal guard or way watchers, there among the worst units to choose

Condottiere
11-09-2009, 08:27
If you can develop a feel for your army, why not?

Waywatchers cost a lot, but if you can catch an unwary opponent off-guard, they can disrupt his battle line. But with Wood Elves, you always have to be aware that this is an army that works best in asymmetrical warfare, basically hit and run, isolating units and then wiping them out.

Crimson Templar
13-09-2009, 23:33
Thanks everyone for the input. We will see what my son likes. Ultimately it is going to come down to whether or not he wants to play this or Pokemon, which just happened out of the blue.

Thanks again