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camz1994
08-09-2009, 00:24
I was watching TV and a games workshop ad came on it made me laugh so i put it on youtube. I cant wait to get my falcon and Chaplin FOR FREE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGjOmNA_-Rc

sigur
08-09-2009, 00:31
Interesting. I take this was aired on a local tv station?

I actually kinda like the slogan "real gamers play face to face". If GW ever went for a larger media ad campaign, they could use this slogan.

camz1994
08-09-2009, 00:32
it was on Fox Chicago

Grimtuff
08-09-2009, 00:33
"Remember, real gamers play face to face!"

With neckbeards! :p

stonehorse
08-09-2009, 00:57
I wish they did adverts over here, I used to love the Space Crusade and Heroquest TV adverts as a child. It isn't a bad advert, it could have been a lot worse.

Anyone else betting that the free model will be a Space Marine from Assault on Black Reach?

Joewrightgm
08-09-2009, 02:27
That is awesome. Very nice to see some actual advertising the 'traditional' way, instead of the quasi-guerrilla underground marketing that they do by word of mouth.

Vermin-thing
08-09-2009, 02:28
EPIC FACE PALM

Wow, at least they didn't advertise the costs, $60 for two days!

Schmapdi
08-09-2009, 02:40
Anyone else betting that the free model will be a Space Marine from Assault on Black Reach?

I think thats pretty much guarenteed. Nice of them to completely mislead people to think they might score a free tank.

I have to say, that commercial did not make the hobby look appealing at all. Blurry background shots of nerds hunched over tables... and the "local-commercial" production values, makes everything look very cheesy.

Loki73
08-09-2009, 02:48
Uhm...im inclined to just say no. Kinda embarrassing.

rsowell
08-09-2009, 02:52
I made my cat watch this. God my cat loves commercials.

sic
08-09-2009, 03:05
Yeah because no tv advertising is ever misleading, how dare GW not state exactly which miniature you will receive....

Hellebore
08-09-2009, 03:13
It says models may vary when it says you get a free model.

I love how people complained GW never advertised, but when they do, they complain that the advertisement isn't good enough.

Perhaps it escaped everyone's attention, but this hobby IS nerds hunched over tables. Truth in advertising? Shock horror! What'll they do next? Macdonalds tells you not to buy their stuff because it's unhealthy?

Hellebore

sic
08-09-2009, 03:58
But surely everyone else in the advertising industry tells the truth dont they? Tell me it isnt so hellebore!;)

I think we both know that no matter what GW do there will always be people in the hobby that are never satisfied.

Schmapdi
08-09-2009, 04:42
The point was - you can't even see what the nerds are doing.

Some shots of a models on a table, someone rolling dice and moving them, measuring a cannon shot, etc. You know - the game.

And models may vary - it's misleading and you know it. It's like having a commercial that says "get a free cellphone for showing up" and then it's one filled with candy or something. They could have easily shown the free Space Marine/Night Goblin they're likely actually giving away. Painted nicely they still look good and aren't a bad prize for showing up.

Hellebore
08-09-2009, 04:59
And models may vary - it's misleading and you know it. It's like having a commercial that says "get a free cellphone for showing up" and then it's one filled with candy or something. They could have easily shown the free Space Marine/Night Goblin they're likely actually giving away. Painted nicely they still look good and aren't a bad prize for showing up.


I'm not saying it's a good thing, but 'model may vary from those shown' is a STANDARD business line. Your example doesn't work because 'cell phone' does not include 'non functioning plastic candy holders shaped like cell phones'. If it was the cheapest crapest worst cell phone that existed, it would still be covered by that line. It's there for a reason.

I suppose you find all advertising misleading.

Hellebore

TAOC
08-09-2009, 05:05
looks like some EXTREME GAMING

Condottiere
08-09-2009, 06:05
Probably produced by someone's kid brother. They should see if they could borrow cutscenes from all their licensed computer games and interpose them with shots of actual miniatures on terrain, with appropriate background music. The cheapest place to advertise is on the 'net.

TAOC
08-09-2009, 06:21
This ad would be best if it had Bodies by drowning pool playing in the background

sic
08-09-2009, 07:19
And models may vary - it's misleading and you know it. It's like having a commercial that says "get a free cellphone for showing up" and then it's one filled with candy

Like Hellebore said thats a standard business line that you will find in advertising all over the world.

You're example is actually false advertising and illegal, so yeah nothing like what GW's disclaimer shows at all but lets not let that stop us from complaining about how crap gw is.

TAOC
08-09-2009, 07:41
but lets not let that stop us from complaining about how crap gw is.

If we did traffic on this site would fall 90%

sic
08-09-2009, 07:42
Ha! Too true

Schmapdi
08-09-2009, 08:15
I'm not saying it's a good thing, but 'model may vary from those shown' is a STANDARD business line. Your example doesn't work because 'cell phone' does not include 'non functioning plastic candy holders shaped like cell phones'. If it was the cheapest crapest worst cell phone that existed, it would still be covered by that line. It's there for a reason.

I suppose you find all advertising misleading.

Hellebore

Yes, I do find all purposely misleading advertising misleading. Adding disclaimers doesn't make it not ******. I'm not saying its illegal, I'm saying it's a crap thing to do. Just because it's the STANDARD business line doesn't make it ok.

A lot of commercials are out to rip dumb people off (things like weight loss pills, Extenze pills, time share ads, make a million dollars selling real estate, cash 4 gold, etc) but it's all ok, because they have disclaimers too.

You and I see it and both know they won't be handing out something that nice to everyone who shows up - a little kid might not, and that's why they did it.

I don't care particularly - if this GW store wants to spend the afternoon dissapointing children, but lets not pretend its not somewhat sleazy.

SharpSilver
08-09-2009, 09:09
They just had to include a Waaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!

Although it's nice to see them advertise on Teevee for once.

Sleazy
08-09-2009, 09:14
They just had to include a Waaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!

Although it's nice to see them advertise on Teevee for once.

exactly my thought.

Was ok till then, if theres one thing gonna put people off its over excited nerds screaming WAAAAAGH over a game.

Other than that I expected worse.

DasKhorne
08-09-2009, 09:47
Lol, another GW fail :cries:

Ridcully
08-09-2009, 10:02
That's a fire prism, not a falcon.

Orcboy_Phil
08-09-2009, 10:06
What was actually funnier where the other videos linked to that, the secret blurry chav video of walking into a GW and then, erm, walking right out. Oh and the world record for girls in a GW. I've seen more girls actually PLAYING the game. Okay very rarely but girls in a GW arn't that uncommon. Granted there mostly wives, girlfriends and sisters, but there still there.

Erethor
08-09-2009, 10:07
Yes, I do find all purposely misleading advertising misleading. Adding disclaimers doesn't make it not ******. I'm not saying its illegal, I'm saying it's a crap thing to do. Just because it's the STANDARD business line doesn't make it ok.

The fact that there is a disclaimer would mean the ad is not misleading, as it is giving you very specific information regarding the ad. But saying that adding disclaimers is not okay, well, that's your opinion.


A lot of commercials are out to rip dumb people off (things like weight loss pills, Extenze pills, time share ads, make a million dollars selling real estate, cash 4 gold, etc) but it's all ok, because they have disclaimers too.

Except that "FREE" weight loss pills, time shares, etc. all require you to put down some cash, as well as make claims that aren't true. But to go into a store that sells toy soldiers and walk away with a free toy soldier? How is that a rip-off?


You and I see it and both know they won't be handing out something that nice to everyone who shows up - a little kid might not, and that's why they did it.

Do you really think a little kid who is going to get a free toy soldier is going to care that it wasn't a Terminator Chaplain, but instead a 3-piece Tactical Marine? Likely not, as he's going to be too busy playing with his free toy soldier.

Besides, I doubt a child would want to go ONLY for the free mini. They want to go because it's a store full of people playing with toy soldiers!


I don't care particularly...

Seems to me like you do... :angel:


...if this GW store wants to spend the afternoon dissapointing children, but lets not pretend its not somewhat sleazy.

Again, how is it sleazy? They are giving away a free mini. Kids are going to go for the fact that there is a store of people playing with toy soldiers.

What about yourself? Are you disappointed everytime you buy a box of miniatures, only to find out that they are not already assembled and painted? After all, there is a little disclaimer on the back that says "The contents of this box are supplied unassembled and unpainted."

THOSE SNEAKY GITS! They KNEW you wouldn't read the back of the box! They knew that you were too "dumb" to know they were not already painted!

I mean seriously, anything that furthers wargaming, the better. I say good for GW.

Bregalad
08-09-2009, 10:16
I love how people complained GW never advertised, but when they do, they complain that the advertisement isn't good enough.
Well, this local TV spot is a start. Some local used car dealers make better and more professional spots, but this is a start. A very local one, but a start ;)

EmperorNorton
08-09-2009, 10:18
I think it's not bad for what it is, a local ad that probably has a budget close to 0.

Sleazy
08-09-2009, 10:37
, but lets not pretend its not somewhat sleazy.

Nowt to do with me mate.

sigur
08-09-2009, 10:37
If we did traffic on this site would fall 90%

Yeah like people really restrain themselves from being negative about EVERYTHING GW does now. :rolleyes:


What many people seem to ignore (while getting all worked up about what they see) is what this ad is - a one-time spot on a local TV station to advertise the opening of a new store. Of course the production value is low and the thing looks cheesy.

Especially now is a bad time to start tv adversiting. Unless tv stations already are so endangered that they decrease prices for advertisment seconds but I doubt that.

Makaber
08-09-2009, 11:13
Making stuff like this is really, really expensive. Friend of mine worked in an indie store and they wanted to make spot to run at the local cinema, just a clip of the camera moving into the store, showing some products, logo, that's that. They were blown away at how expensive it would cost to make, and had to scrap the idea.

So, y'know, for a local thing, this is okay, I guess. You don't have time to "show a game" anyway, so it's better to go for the "Look; boring soldier. Now; exiting soldier! Then; SPECTACLE!!! *Electric guitar*"-approach.

blongbling
08-09-2009, 11:42
And that is why GW shouldnt make adverts. This was done in the US though, I do wonder if the Head Office in the UK knows this happened as it is a stark departure to its policies on this type of stuff.

quatrofromageo
08-09-2009, 11:43
Okay, that was sort of good/sort of cheesy.

There definitely needed to be some kind of METAL music after the initial Waaaagh, or the a-ooh, a-ooh from 300 followed by the NIN track.

The whole 'gamers meet face to face' looked decidedly homosexual.

Otherwise, not a bad attempt from GW.

theunwantedbeing
08-09-2009, 12:16
I'm impressed they managed to get some footage of a store that didnt contain hundreds of whiney kids or waves of completely unpainted and partially assembled models.

This advert was better than most tv adverts.

kaimarion
08-09-2009, 12:39
Well this is as bad as adverts come :p.
Did anyone else think the original "cash for gold" advert with the ginger guy was an ad for a new comedy the 1st time they seen it? He had that kinda "were not gonna steal your gold" sarcastic look on his face.

DDogwood
08-09-2009, 13:36
I liked the "Waaaagh!" noises. It made me think that Warhammer is a good hobby for cool and popular people like me.

Jedi152
08-09-2009, 13:48
I've seen worse adverts* and GW really need to start advertising to lose their stuck up, cliquey, holier than thou image.

*Except for the Waargh, that was awful.

TheBigBadWolf
08-09-2009, 13:55
It was alright, really just an ad for a new store, not like a product type ad.


Well this is as bad as adverts come :p.
Did anyone else think the original "cash for gold" advert with the ginger guy was an ad for a new comedy the 1st time they seen it? He had that kinda "were not gonna steal your gold" sarcastic look on his face.

How many of those ads are there, Im sure they will be wanting to buy white metal minatures soon, as the value keeps going up according to GW :p:D

Condottiere
08-09-2009, 20:26
They'd be better off if they could encourage amateurs to produce clips to show on youtube, It doesn't cost them anything, and usually they have better production values.

Kronos
08-09-2009, 21:11
wow, thats, err, pretty damn bad.

i just couldn't help out and laugh when the Waaagh is set off.

The Guy
08-09-2009, 22:10
It needs Barry Scott.

scarletsquig
08-09-2009, 22:25
Making stuff like this is really, really expensive. Friend of mine worked in an indie store and they wanted to make spot to run at the local cinema, just a clip of the camera moving into the store, showing some products, logo, that's that. They were blown away at how expensive it would cost to make, and had to scrap the idea.

Piffle, making a basic ad costs next to nothing. I am personally capable of firing up After Effects and making an ad like that GW one within a few hours. Sure, the animation degree helps, but I'm sure most people could figure it out.

Aside from the video editing, there's the voiceover and filming to do, also easy enough.

Paying the network to actually show the thing.. now there's your expense.

Condottiere
08-09-2009, 22:49
It also depends on which advertising slot you intend to show your advert on.

While it might be cheap, I'm not sure one showing at 3.15 am will reach your target demographic.

LonelyPath
08-09-2009, 23:37
I wish they did adverts over here

They did a couple for White Dwarf over the years, but not for a long time.

Kronos
09-09-2009, 01:09
It needs Barry Scott.

That would just be too good :p

followed by the lines of "strip your models with Cilit Bang!"

Condottiere
09-09-2009, 05:50
That sounds promising in an NSFW way.

snurl
09-09-2009, 06:21
Piffle, making a basic ad costs next to nothing. I am personally capable of firing up After Effects and making an ad like that GW one within a few hours. Sure, the animation degree helps, but I'm sure most people could figure it out.

Aside from the video editing, there's the voiceover and filming to do, also easy enough.

Paying the network to actually show the thing.. now there's your expense.

Yes. Asking the TV station to do the production work is expensive. Doing it in house? Priceless.

ankara halla
09-09-2009, 10:58
Hmph, maybe I'm just old and uncool (well, nothing "maybe" about it really...), but that ad didn't seem half bad to me.

It wasn't long, to the point, gave a good idea of the kind of minis the hobby is about, even had a good catchphrase. Sure, the music was a bit over the top, but at least it wasn't an annoying jingle.

Anyway, just my 2c.

jason_sation
10-09-2009, 04:15
Apparantly they had one on TV out here in Maryland. I never saw it, but a buddy of mine said that everybody was lined up ready for battle (think Braveheart) and yelled out a warcry. This was then follwed by the people picking up their miniatures and moving them like an inch on the board. I wish I could find the commercial and actually see it!

Hellebore
10-09-2009, 04:33
An extremely cool (but prohibitively expensive) ad could be as follows:

The voice over says something like:

"You are the lord martial of your host. Lead them into battle. Destroy your enemies."

And the camera pans back from a guy dressed as say an Empire general leading hundreds of men (cg) into battle.

The camera swoops into the guy and/or his troops and they are caught in the poses the models are in. So the cg morphs from a handgunner character (like the Mark of Chaos cgi) into the handgunner model painted on the table surrounded by his fellows.

The general then morphs into the player standing behind his army surveying the battle on the table.

Basically try to evoke the atmosphere of a battle through the representation of the models.

Hellebore

Condottiere
10-09-2009, 07:03
Probably a lot less expensive, nowadays.

My feeling is once the Total War engine gets optimized to work on quad-cores (or more), with a Physics engine, we may be spending more time in front of a screen than a table.

I saw the LotR mod for Medieval (which the half rest of my group is now playing fanatically) and it's fantastic. Imagine when someone does the Warhammer Fantasy mod.

Killgore
10-09-2009, 13:53
HAAAHAAAAAA

That advert was good for a giggle, if that advertising works in America i wonder how it would have to be adapted for UK televison.

only joking...
10-09-2009, 21:01
I made my cat watch this. God my cat loves commercials.

Mega LOL, take that as sigged good sir :D:p

Demrush
10-09-2009, 22:46
Hmm...hmm...what can I say. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but then again, that WHAAA screaming was pretty sad.

I think, if you are trying to get people into a hobby that is rather nerdish, you should try and ease them into it.

Wintertooth
11-09-2009, 01:42
It would be pretty lame for a national ad campaign, but it's better than a lot of local business TV ads I saw in the US.

Heck, for the US, it's probably better than a lot of the national campaigns. At least it's not that old guy who can't pronounce diabetes or some medication ad that's 99% disclaimer.

Condottiere
11-09-2009, 07:32
I rather like Crazy Ed's Discount Furniture/Used Car/Electronics Megastore weekly sell out.

warhammergrimace
11-09-2009, 10:05
finally got around to watching the Ad, my god its pretty bad, though what I'd expect from a local broadcasting station on a low budget. I'm surprised the big wigs at GW allowed the advert to be produced. It did make the hobby look really geeky, yes I know most of us are geeks who wargame, but still, they could have tried to make the hobby sound a little cool.

Anyway its good to see the hobby being advertised even if the ad is a little lame.

Orcboy_Phil
11-09-2009, 10:10
I don't think its possible to make pushing little toy soldiers around a table "cool".

Condottiere
11-09-2009, 10:11
It's called creative editing.

scarletsquig
11-09-2009, 14:16
After thinking about this for a bit, the best TV ad would have to be one that doesn't look like it takes itself too seriously.

Mr. T ads for WoW worked well because they recognised that there was no way to sugar-coat the dork factor.. so instead they simply ampflied it to a ridiculous level.

I think GW knows this, and that's why there's no ads, they would prefer to keep a serious or professional image.

Verm1s
11-09-2009, 23:23
An extremely cool (but prohibitively expensive) ad could be as follows:

[snip]

Basically try to evoke the atmosphere of a battle through the representation of the models.

Then watch a bunch of Warseers respond with "Ugh! That was a terrible ad! I can't believe they wanted to make it look like the player commanded some kind of army! Showing the player as a general? They shouldn't do that - it's sleazy deception! Showing real gameplay on a tabletop? They shouldn't do that - it's not sleazy deception! What were they thinking?"

Xyxox
11-09-2009, 23:25
Wow, I hadn't seen that and this store will be the second closest to me. I wonder if Baltimore had to approve the ad or if the Chicago Bunker was given discretion.

That will make 11 stores in the greater Chicagoland region + the Bunker, then they're opening one right across the border in Kenosha, Wisconsin soon, too. and one way West in Rockford.

MAn, watching this thing a couple of times I ahve to wonder if it was filmed in the Fox Valley store.

Angry Lawyer
11-09-2009, 23:29
Absolute, unadulterated brilliance.

-Angry Lawyer

Condottiere
12-09-2009, 05:14
If you perceive yourself as a geek.

ankara halla
12-09-2009, 11:48
If you perceive yourself as a geek.

Yes, but seriously, anybody who has an interest in this hobby of ours, pretty much is a geek by definition...
If one doesn't perceive him/herself as one, then that is merely fooling oneself, but nobody else :)

TeddyC
12-09-2009, 11:59
The point was - you can't even see what the nerds are doing.

Some shots of a models on a table, someone rolling dice and moving them, measuring a cannon shot, etc. You know - the game.

you see people measuring things, rolling dice and moving models around.... in the back ground....

what do you exactly want them to show a close up of the 'action'? someone jumping up and down going FIRE AT THOSE GOBLINS MEN! and the proceeding to measure and roll dice, work out casualties, argue about LOS then the other guy make 'dying' noises as he removes his models?

Lets face it... to watch those things with no concept of the game itself would be pretty dull.

Huw_Dawson
12-09-2009, 12:28
I remember the De Astgoni adverts for the BoME set.

I really can't understand why GW doesn't do something like that. Other than the sprue sellers on eBay selling to the WarSeer price whining crowd.

- Huw

Angry Lawyer
13-09-2009, 10:37
If you perceive yourself as a geek.

You're a geek, I'm a geek, we're both posting on a forum dedicated to toy soldiers and spend lots of time shuffling them across a table.

-Angry Lawyer

Condottiere
13-09-2009, 11:09
I always thought of myself as a nerd.

djinn8
13-09-2009, 11:23
Well that was a pretty cheap ad compared to the old Heroquest and Space Crusade ones. Also they were trying to advertise the opening of the store without really advertising the hobby itself, meaning the target audience for this ad must be pre-existing GW customers.

Suicide Messiah
13-09-2009, 11:58
GW ads are alwasy gonna be lame.

What they are essentially advertising are toys which are advertised all the time. Some flashing images, a bit of buget CG and some stupid, dramatic voice spitting out ridiculous slogans and we're done. Problem is that GW is a hobby for adults (more or less), regardless of who they try and push their stuff on their real consumers are grown ups. This means the toy advert formula doesnt work.

GW your a multi million pound, worldwide company. Youve done all right so far so please dont embarrass your loyal customers with s***** ads.

blongbling
14-09-2009, 11:50
I remember the De Astgoni adverts for the BoME set.

I really can't understand why GW doesn't do something like that. Other than the sprue sellers on eBay selling to the WarSeer price whining crowd.

- Huw

cos it was too successful and led to the bubble they had with the LoTR's/ That bubble was caused by the BGiME supplement that DeAg did, not through just selling the LoTR stuff. As a result of creating the bubble Mark Wells has repeatedly stated that they will not do another partworks magazine, even tough DeAg has asked them to several times.

precinctomega
15-09-2009, 21:05
Just to raise the tone of this discussion, this time last year I attended the GW Group PLC AGM at Nottingham, in my capacity as a shareholder (can't go this year, sadly) and had a nice chat with GW's US Director of Sales (his name escapes me, but if you search for AGM in this forum, you'll find my report on the event in which I think I named him).

One thing he mentioned then was that they were planning to do TV adverts on local news networks to promote new store openings and that, if it proved successful, they might roll it out wider. He wouldn't be drawn on the possibility of a national campaign, though.

R.

Xyxox
16-09-2009, 14:08
Just to raise the tone of this discussion, this time last year I attended the GW Group PLC AGM at Nottingham, in my capacity as a shareholder (can't go this year, sadly) and had a nice chat with GW's US Director of Sales (his name escapes me, but if you search for AGM in this forum, you'll find my report on the event in which I think I named him).

One thing he mentioned then was that they were planning to do TV adverts on local news networks to promote new store openings and that, if it proved successful, they might roll it out wider. He wouldn't be drawn on the possibility of a national campaign, though.

R.

That answers my quesiton as to whether this came out of Baltimore or if it was left up to the discretion of the Chicago Bunker.

CraftworldsRus
28-09-2009, 05:40
You know, if they really wanted to make an awesome ad, all the need is Billy Dee Williams. Billy picks a up a Space Marine in a GW store, says "What the heck is this?" Then the screen goes black and text says "Want to be like Billy Dee Williams?" black screen..."We know you do." .... "Go to Games Workshop. Pick up a free Space Marine." screen cuts to a really happy Billy Dee Williams. Boom, bang, done.

Templar Ben
28-09-2009, 06:27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVw2MVdduOE

That is a product advertisement and not a store opening but it is more appealing to me. CGI to see what it represents quickly, followed by clearly showing that it is a board game and not a computer game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqLPk4FkHxE

This is a bit long for our purposes but this is really just a voiceover and clip art from the game. Something like this would be great on GW's website to explain how the game is played in 3 minutes for the millions that don't live near a GW store.

Reflex
28-09-2009, 07:45
it would have been cooler to see some kid pretending to be a space marine in his back yard, like the star was kid... just a thought...

zedeyejoe
28-09-2009, 11:46
In marketing you sell what the buyer gets out of it, not the product.

So challenging games vs other humans (face to face rather than online), well painted figures and an opportunity to get together and boast about your wins and complain about your losses.

I would say that some of the Deep Space Nine episodes have done wonders for battles with toy soldiers.

Verm1s
28-09-2009, 12:15
Problem is that GW is a hobby for adults (more or less), regardless of who they try and push their stuff on their real consumers are grown ups.

Oh, come on. How many of us d'you think were reading The Brothers Karamazov, listening to Bach, and smoking a pipe in our mahogany-lined library-cum-studies when the urge to push little toy soldiers across a furry table overwhelmed us?
Wargaming's a hobby for kids, big or small, despite what your cool, edgy cynicism might tell you. This is much more true when the games in question are produced by Games Workshop.

And I'd like to have a look at your demographic studies.

zedeyejoe
28-09-2009, 15:30
I am going to disagree with you. Of course wargaming started off as a military occupation and then was taken up by people like H G Wells

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming

The problem with it being a 'hobby for kids' is that kids grow up so are a bit of a moving target. Yes I am sure that lot people start playing when they are children but by definition they are going to grow up.

By my own experience most of the GW gamers I know and have seen are adults.

A couple of polls that might be handy
http://theminiaturespage.com/polls/90480336/
http://theminiaturespage.com/polls/1041464626/
http://theminiaturespage.com/polls/1405047744/

scarletsquig
29-09-2009, 02:13
I would say that some of the Deep Space Nine episodes have done wonders for battles with toy soldiers.
I also liked how little model spaceships on clear plastic flying bases featured heavily in Battlestar Galactica whenever they were planning a mission.

Of course, on the flip side it made me cringe in the episode where Adama got angry and destroyed them.. then again in the episode where he smashed up his model sailing ship.. "Nooo, not the models!" went through my head on both occasions. :p

Verm1s
29-09-2009, 12:05
I am going to disagree with you. Of course wargaming started off as a military occupation and then was taken up by people like H G Wells

Yup, looking at the small print on that sign over the counter in GW: "This hobby is recommended for children aged 12 and over, military personel, and classic sci-fi writers."


The problem with it being a 'hobby for kids' is that kids grow up so are a bit of a moving target. Yes I am sure that lot people start playing when they are children but by definition they are going to grow up.

That's assuming that they don't all 'grow up' and move on, or that no more (or fewer) kids join the hobby.


By my own experience most of the GW gamers I know and have seen are adults.

Oh. Well then.

:eyebrows:


A couple of polls that might be handy
http://theminiaturespage.com/polls/90480336/
http://theminiaturespage.com/polls/1041464626/
http://theminiaturespage.com/polls/1405047744/

Ah, TMP. Home of the Grognard. I'm sure that's a perfectly accurate representation of after-school clubs and screaming-kids-with-rich-parents. :p

The funny thing is that you hear a lot of complaints about the latter cluttering up GW shops, but here some people are all but denying they exist.
What's the real ratio of kids to adults playing GW games? I dunno. I wouldn't like to try and find out. And what would be the definition of 'child' and 'adult' in such a survey? Where do you put the calm, intelligent 12-year-old or the petulant, aggressive 18-year-old? In any case I think it should be a lot more thorough than "I game with grown-ups so most of GW's customers are grown-ups." That's my point.

Actually, that's a secondary point. My main point is one that seems to have been overlooked: "Wargaming's a hobby for kids, big or small... This is much more true when the games in question are produced by Games Workshop."
Age doesn't have much to do with this, in my eyes. You visit TMP, right Zed? Have you never read Larry Leadhead? And that's a parody of 'mature' historical wargamers. Sure, not everyone's going to be just like that (it is a parody) but I'm willing to bet most 'grown-up' readers will find some sort of connection, or it wouldn't feature. What about GW gamers? I very much doubt that they're pushing plastic goblins and space marines in order to hone their real-life tactical or strategic military skills, or to exhort the nations of the world to give up real warfare.

GW's for kids. Big kids too. That's okay. I'm a big kid myself - I post here too, yeah? But don't fool yourselves to the contrary; and if GW show off a TV ad to draw in real kids (in keeping with their business plan that has been stated and discussed here umpteen times), don't come up in here like Suicide Messiah, snorting and sneering that you and your serious, mature, twenty-thirty-something buddies are the true keepers of the polystyrene toys.

To coin a phrase: grow up.

DeathTyrant
29-09-2009, 12:47
I started the hobby as a kid, when my older brother got in to it (in turn he was given stuff by our older cousins).
The kids are important to the hobby, as you want to have a base of people growing up to have disposable income, as well as the current adults you have with disposable income - who will eventually become too busy with kids, lack the disposable income, or die.

That said, I don't want to see the adults who play left out for the kids either. It's adults hobbyists
(and teens on the net too) who make the game what it is on a worldwide scale - imagine if all events were run by people with no interest in the games other than to make money - wait don't answer that one! :D

zedeyejoe
29-09-2009, 13:18
Ah, TMP. Home of the Grognard. I'm sure that's a perfectly accurate representation of after-school clubs and screaming-kids-with-rich-parents.

I also do kids, in fact I set up the Junior Adventurers Guild specifically to cater for the under 16's who were not allowed in to local wargaming clubs. So don't be so quick to imagine you know it all.

http://www.jagclub.co.uk/


To coin a phrase: grow up.

Indeed I have been doing so for the last 50 years, 39 of them as a wargamer.