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Einholt
08-09-2009, 00:21
Hi guys I have a peculiar rules query. I don't actually know how this would go but this was the situation

A dark elf infantry unit had a Character on coldone inside it. The enemy Tzeentch wizard cast pandemonium and had it active. When it came time to roll leadership of Stupidity on the unit.

The WoC player asked that the leadership rolled would be the Cold ones, not the heros obviously.

Do any of you guys know what the real answer is? Is it the Units own leadership or the Cold ones. The argument used was that the Cold one has its own profile and it is different then a normal cold one rider because it is purchased for the character.

If it was infact wrong and the leadership roll should have been the units not the cold ones, which rules would specifically state this.

The pandemonium spell only states that units may not use character leadership for these types of tests.

jtw1n
08-09-2009, 00:46
You always use a riders leadership for any tests while he's alive. No matter what he's riding. All mounts have their own profiles but that is irrelevant in who's leadership you use. Also as far as I know it's impossible to target a mount that is not large while it has a rider.

willowdark
08-09-2009, 00:57
You can't make a distinction between cavalry troops and characters who buy cavalry mounts. The rules on pg 7 and 31, as well as the Character mount psychology rules on pg 79, are clear. You always use the rider's leadership when he is still alive.

The rule book makes no distinction between cavalry troops and characters mounted on a 1 wound cavalry model, so it would be wrong for a player to insist otherwise.

Einholt
08-09-2009, 00:59
Thanks a bunch for providing the rules evidence guys this should help if situation comes up in one of my games. I thought it was pretty ridiculous way of playing it.

Sarah S
08-09-2009, 01:46
See, I'm not sure that you would get to use the character's leadership in this case.

nosferatu1001
08-09-2009, 01:59
You just cannot use teh generals leadership, it states nothing about not being able to use the leadership of the character in the unit.

willowdark
08-09-2009, 02:07
Pg 7 of the BRB is clear. A cavalry mount's leadership is _never_ used. It is treated as a single model "in all respects."

And Pandaemonium says character, not general.

Nurgling Chieftain
08-09-2009, 03:21
If a character were joined to a unit of trolls, for example, the trolls would have to take the stupidity test on their own leadership. In this case, however, the only stupid model is the character, so he uses his own leadership. Note that if there were another, higher leadership character in the same unit, it would still be the leadership of the guy on the cold one.

Note that Pandaemonium has no effect on the rider/mount relationship; a unit of cold one riders would still use their riders' leadership, as does the character in this example.

I am making an assumption, and that assumption is that Pandaemonium does not remove characters' leadership from themself. I am making that assumption on the basis of it leading to such models being unable to use any leadership value at all when alone.