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Grimtide
08-09-2009, 20:28
Hey, I'm planning to use this list in a tournament later this month and could use some advice, especially with regard to the runes. I'm limited by my selection of models to hand so the runes are where I have the most flexibility. I'm really just looking to hold my own so advice and criticism are welcome!

Dwarf Lord 268 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield; Oath Stone
Rune of Cleaving; Rune of Might; Master Rune of Spite

Thane 165 BSB
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor
Rune of Fury;Master Rune of Gromril; Rune of Resistance

Runesmith 145 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor
Master Rune of Balance; Rune of Spellbreaking

24 Dwarf Warriors 241 Pts
Full Command

10 Quarellers 120 Pts
Shields

10 Thunderers 150 Pts
Shield

15 Ironbreakers 270 Pts
FUll Command
Runic Standard with Rune of Determination; Rune of Stoicism

20 Miners
Full Command; Steam drill

Cannon 140 Pts
Rune of Forging; Engineer

Bolt Thrower 45 Pts

Bolt Thrower 45 Pts

Gyrocopter 140 Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1999

lcfr
08-09-2009, 23:20
I've made all my comments in red beneath choices I think need some modifications without changing the fundamental character of your list. Hope they help!

Dwarf Lord 268 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield; Oath Stone
Rune of Cleaving; Rune of Might; Master Rune of Spite

Could use the RStone just to get some more protection; remember, this guy will have to issue challenges every round and meet them whenever able to, so a little more armour won't hurt. 4+ ward is good but for about the same cost you can get a 2+ rerollable save and be immune to KB and poison. If you're not taking Shieldbearers (and an OS in a unit of IBs is just as cool) you should try and spend some points on the protection they would otherwise afford you.

Thane 165 BSB
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor
Rune of Fury;Master Rune of Gromril; Rune of Resistance

3 S5 attacks ought to serve you better than 4 S4; plus 5 leftover points mean you can make this guy fire-resistant or fire-causing!

Runesmith 145 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor
Master Rune of Balance; Rune of Spellbreaking

Shield?

20 Miners
Full Command; Steam drill

Wow, that's alot! What's your plan w/these guys?

Cannon 140 Pts
Rune of Forging; Engineer

The Bolt Throwers need the engineers more than the cannon; having an engineer on a RForging cannon means he is really just an additional crewman, your machine will rarely misfire.

Bolt Thrower 45 Pts

Bolt Thrower 45 Pts

As above. I think at least one, if not two or all, of your warmachines should be inscribed w/the RBurning to knock out all the nasty Regenerating critters and Flammable treejerks that you're bound to face. That, and both BTs really could use an engineer if you wind up w/spare points.

Gyrocopter 140 Pts

Very rare to see a player take a gyro over an OG (I like both at 2k) but to each his own; if you don't have the OG model and won't get one then ignore my recommendation, but otherwise I would gladly dump either missile unit or half of the miners to field one.

Grimtide
09-09-2009, 00:54
Thanks for the suggestion Icfr, I've made some change most significantly nearly halving the Miner unit and adding an extra Thane. One is a dedicated BSB, the other is added for more CC punch. They'll be attached to the Warriors and will hopefully keep them from breaking which is the biggest problem I've had with them in the past. They're supported by Lord with IB who'll stay mobile. Miners will be used for opportunity flanking, march blocking and artillery hunting (unit was too big on reconsideration). Engineers added to BT & RBurn to both and shield to RS (That was an oversight). Alas I do not have a OG, but I might be able to lay my hands on one in time. Drop Gyro and switch in? C&C

Dwarf Lord 228 Pts
General; Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield
Master Rune of Swiftness; Rune of Might; Rune of Resistance; Rune of Stone
(Goes with IB)

BSB 120 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Battle Standard Bearer
Runic Standard with Ancestor Rune & Rune of Determination
(Goes with W)

Thane 160 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor
Rune of Might; Master Rune of Gromril; Rune of Resistance
(Goes with W)

Runesmith 147 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield
Master Rune of Balance; Rune of Spellbreaking (x1)

23 Dwarf Warriors 232 Pts
Full Command

10 Quarrellers 120 Pts
Shields

10 Thunderers 150 Pts
Shield

15 Ironbreakers 270 Pts
Full Command
Runic Standard with Rune of Determination & Rune of Stoicism

12 Miners 135 Pts

Cannon 135 Pts
Rune of Forging; Rune of Reloading; Cannon

Bolt Thrower 65 Pts
Rune of Burning; Engineer

Bolt Thrower 95 Pts
Master Rune of Skewering; Rune of Burning; Engineer

Gyrocopter 140 Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1999

Tzeentch Lord X7
09-09-2009, 02:42
you should take hammerers instead of ironbreakers their the better choice when taking a dwarf lord immune to fear and terror for free, rerollable stubborn tests if you put the BSB in the unit, and their the same points cost.

tricker53
09-09-2009, 05:51
agreed, hammerers > ironbreakers. for the same cost you lose 1 armour save at range, but become stubborn, immune to fear and terror (with the dwarf lord) and have to ability to go S6 when you feel like it.

penetration runes are effective on bolt throwers. usually just 1 is sufficient.

pretty rare to see miners without an anvil.

on the cannon, i wouldnt recommend you take forging AND reloading. . . as lcfr said, youll rarely misfire. try burning instead.

the ironbreaker unit looks really small, even with stoicism, if you lose a couple of models and get outnumbered to a fear causer (chaos knights or blood knights would do that fairly quickly) youre in trouble. another reason to go for hammerers.

surprised not to see shieldbearers for that lord. although admittedly youre basically paying 25 pts for rune of stone and a runesmiths attacks, which arent great anyway, in addition to the lords. i should maybe reconsider shieldbearers on my theoretical dwarf lords in future. . . however it would bump that save upto 1+ instead of 2+. plus, being part of a unit with Ro stoicism, hed be a crazy US6!

Grimtide
09-09-2009, 14:53
you should take hammerers instead of ironbreakers their the better choice when taking a dwarf lord immune to fear and terror for free, rerollable stubborn tests if you put the BSB in the unit, and their the same points cost.

Not knocking the combination, just don't have Hammers to field :cries:


on the cannon, i wouldnt recommend you take forging AND reloading. . . as lcfr said, youll rarely misfire. try burning instead.

Fair point and done


the ironbreaker unit looks really small, even with stoicism, if you lose a couple of models and get outnumbered to a fear causer (chaos knights or blood knights would do that fairly quickly) youre in trouble. another reason to go for hammerers.

Yeah it is a point of concern. so by dropping reloading on cannon and switiching Rcourage for Rstoicism they are now Immune Fear/Terror. Still not ideal but got to work with what I got! C&C

lcfr
09-09-2009, 17:30
Dwarf Lord 228 Pts
General; Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield
Master Rune of Swiftness; Rune of Might; Rune of Resistance; Rune of Stone
(Goes with IB)

I think this guy ought to stick w/his Oath stone. Also, MRChallenge might be a good idea on him since it's a very effective way of dragging non-ITP units into combat w/your Lord.

BSB 120 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Battle Standard Bearer
Runic Standard with Ancestor Rune & Rune of Determination
(Goes with W)

This may be an issue of personal preference, but I find that unless your plans rely on some runic banner that costs more than 50pts (particularly Strollaz's) then your BSB should always always always have a fine set of runic armour and even a weapon rune or two; being able to re-roll break tests is a very handy feature for a static army like Dwarfs, and so you want this guy to have some survivability. Adding a RCleaving helps him keep his unit in the game too by adding some kills. Remember, your BSB is effectively worth an additional 100VPs and he's a critical component to keeping your line in place.

Thane 160 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor
Rune of Might; Master Rune of Gromril; Rune of Resistance
(Goes with W)

You could probably give this guy's runes to your BSB and just dump him; for the points leftover from him and the dropped runic banner from your BSB you could nearly upgrade your Warriors to Longbeards. This guy's pts cost is off too, should be 140 I think?

12 Miners 135 Pts

You can get by on just 8 if you find yourself strapped for points; that'll do just fine to hunt warmachines left behind by the enemy and to maybe even claim a table quarter. They should be 132pts.

Cannon 135 Pts
Rune of Forging; Rune of Reloading;

Not sure if you'll really need a RReloading on your cannon; by turn 3 it shouldn't be seeing much action and I highly doubt your opponent can throw so many long-ranged shooting or magic attacks at your crew that they'll be dead by then. If you have the 10pts to spare for it you could get away with it, but imo it's a waste.

Bolt Thrower 95 Pts
Master Rune of Skewering; Rune of Burning; Engineer

Dropping the runes on this machine may be another way to shed some points for other things you need in the list (at least the MRSkewering anyways), though you could transfer its RBurning over to the cannon in order to still have two burning warmachines. Having one BT w/the RPenetrating is a sound way of crunking chariots but if you're tight on points then the cannon can do the job fine while your BTs pick out gribblies.

The recommendations I made would save you 202pts (inc. the 20pts from the mispriced Thane) while keeping all of the current options except for the additional non-BSB Thane. With these points you could:

-buy an Organ Gun w/82pts to spare on upgrading your Warriors to Longbeards

-buy an Organ Gun w/82pts to spare on up to 6 more Ironbreakers

-buy an Organ Gun w/82pts to spare on an Oath stone for your Lord and some Ironbreakers

Grimtide
10-09-2009, 00:24
Ok revised list. First thanks to Icfr who made me reread the Royal Blood rule and realise I could take a Longbeard unit without a Warrior unit :p. Because of that I can give LB a runic standard and remove the need to use BSB to give them one. Lord stays with IB but now has OS, BSB & RS go with LB. Miners hit again but I'll live. Here is the new list.

Dwarf Lord 258 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield; Oath Stone
Master Rune of Swiftness; Rune of Might; Rune of Resistance; Rune of Stone

BSB Thane 165 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Battle Standard Bearer
Rune of Might; Master Rune of Gromril; Rune of Resistance

Runesmith 147 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield
Master Rune of Balance; Rune of Spellbreaking

23 Longbeards 346 Pts
FC
Rune of Determination; Rune of Stoicism

10 Quarellers 120 Pts
Shields

10 Thunderers 150 Pts
Shields

15 Ironbreakers 275 Pts
FC
Rune of Courage; Rune of Determination

8 Miners 113 Pts
FC

Cannon 130 Pts
Rune of Burning; Rune of Forging

Bolt Thrower 90 Pts
Rune of Burning; Rune of Penetrating; Engineer

Bolt Thrower 65 Pts
Rune of Burning; Engineer

Gyrocopter 140 Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1999

tricker53
10-09-2009, 01:03
points are off on the 2nd bolt thrower, its 65.

besides that, love the characters. you have as much armour as you can take. . . well almost. your lord only has a 2+ rerollable. still not considering shieldbearers?

i still think hammerers would benefit you a lot more than ironbreakers, especially with the dwarf lord. you get immunity to fear and terror for free if the lords with em, so you can take R battle instead of courage. stubborn Ld10 immune to fear and terror is as close as you can get to unbreakable without being slayers.

pretty uncommon for a dwarf army not to fill its rare slots, and with good reason. their rare choices are awesome. an organ gun is the same price as your quarellers, and on average will be much more devastating. however i do realise you need to fill you min. core with these guys.

still no shields on the longbeards!?. . . oh you have calculated them in the points but not listed them.

Tzeentch Lord X7
10-09-2009, 17:39
triker53 you dont use your lord leadership for stubborn tests the lord himself has to be stubborn for them to get Ld 10 stubborn

Grimtide
10-09-2009, 18:48
points are off on the 2nd bolt thrower, its 65.

Typo. Corrected. Total is correct

lcfr
10-09-2009, 19:59
Only other major change I might recommend is to drop the FC on your miners and put those 25pts towards the MRChallenge on your Lord. FC on a small unit of miners is a waste for 2 reasons: 1) they don't need a banner, additional attack, or tiebreaker to beat warmachine crews 2) 8 miners will either do exactly what they're supposed to do or be set upon by a stronger enemy unit guarding the warmachines, in which case they probably won't hold up for long. If this happens, you're out an extra 100VPs for that banner.

Miners are worse than Warriors when it comes to fighting other rank and file imo, but make great warmachine hunters even in small numbers. Also, Miners are not the kind of unit that enemy players routinely fear Dwarf players using, and so just because you're playing Dwarfs does not mean you are always running Miners. That said, often your opponent will often not bother to leave a unit behind to protect his warmachines. If you want to psych him out, though, take your Miners out of their case and leave them off of the board but in sight of your opponent after you've both finished deploying. Sometimes this will freak your enemies out and they'll amend their original battle plan to leave behind a warmachine guard.

Tzeentch Lord X7
10-09-2009, 22:13
drop the full command on the miners and rune of burning on the bolt thrower and swap the unit of quarellers and put in 10 thunderers

Grimtide
14-09-2009, 05:07
First game with list today; victory. Played Ogres and while I think luck favored me, I'm quite happy with how the army played. Dropped the Command on the Miners and added RChallenge to Lord, otherwise last list posted is the same. Lost Quarellers,Miners & Lord but other units took min casualties. Am going to drop RChallenge, RBurn on Cannon & 1 Longbeard, switch RMaster on BSB for RCleaving and give Lord RSpite; I think the Ward Save is going to be needed. C&C

lcfr
14-09-2009, 16:31
Surprised to hear a Dwarf Lord actually got killed. Did he get Tenderised?

Grimtide
14-09-2009, 21:07
Tenderised, seasoned and bbq'd!

lcfr
14-09-2009, 21:31
Aw damn. That really sucks; before Shieldbearers and the RPreservation my dwarf lord only regularly got killed by a high elf prince w/the old swordmaster skill (killing blow)...but then again, one good shot from a Tenderiser-wielding Tyrant will ruin most characters' day. :(

Try mixing up your lord's setup from time to time, however I think you'll find that overall it's pretty rare that he'll be killed in cc. Better luck next time!