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jason
09-09-2009, 04:37
Below is a list I have been thinking of running - for fun only, no power gaming here. There was a thread a couple of months back where people were encouraged to take alternative units to the popular choice. As a Tomb Kings convert, this means instead of the Screaming Skull Catapult (popular choice), I would run a Bone Giant (unpopular choice). This got me thinking of other unpopular units, and none comes to mind like the Tomb Kings cavalry options. Then, since we can't march, I thought an all-cavalry list might be kinda fun to run. At least it would be different for my opponent to play against. So what do you think, would you enjoy playing this list?

Characters:
Tomb King with Chariot, Crown of Kings, Light armor, Great Weapon
Tomb Prince with Chariot, Light armor, Flail of Skulls
Liche Priest (hierophant) with Skeletal Steed, Blue Khepra
Liche Priest with Skeletal Steed, Biting Blade

Core:
Light Horsemen x5
Heavy Horsemen x13 with Full Command and Banner of Undying Legion
Chariots x3 with Standard Bearer and Icon of the Sacred Eye
Chariots x3

Special:
Tomb Scorpion
Carrion x3

Rare:
Bone Giant x2

Total: 1997 points
Models: 34

jason
09-09-2009, 04:43
Son of a gun....I posted this in the main tactics forum. Well, sorry for the double post, but let me change the focus to cavalry related (tactics) discussion:

How could I use the above list to my maximum benefit?
I was thinking of running the hierophant with the light horsemen, will he be protected enough?
Are the heavy horsemen in this unit size a large enough (pseudo)-anvil?

Thanks,

Jason

Enigmatik1
09-09-2009, 12:39
Interesting idea. Not one, but TWO Bone Giants! RAWR!

I think this would be a fun list to run. I've been thinking of a functional, fast list involving minimum core and lots of fast (MV 5+) units. This reminds me of that.

I'd be inclined to run more Core for that, though. Something like 10-15 heavy horsemen in a unit and two units of 5 light horsemen in addition to the two chariot units you have. You gave your second LP the Biting Blade...why is that? Go all out and give him the Serpent Staff imo! Giving your Hiero the Blue Khepra when you plan to put him in the Light Horseman unit seems a tad wasteful. The Khepra is expensive for what it does. So either stick your Hiero in a bigger unit or give him something else. Give him the Staff of Ravening if you aren't too worried about defense (RAWR! Bone Giants rampaging ftw) or the Collar of Shapesh and either a dispel scroll or Enkhil's Kanopi if you are.:D

You'd be surprised how many people don't run Ushabti these days because they're such soft targets. ;)

I'm interested to see how things turn out for ya. Be sure to keep us posted! :)

Infurion
09-09-2009, 13:46
While you'r at it, swap the TP with the Icon bearer and the Banner of the Hidden Dead, and bury a 6 man Heavy horse unit. :) This looks like a fun list, make sure to tell us how it played.

PeG
09-09-2009, 13:58
As for the protection of the hierophant 5 light horsemen doesnt really do much. As soon as one of them is dead you have to randomize and your hierophant can get hit. Since everyone will know who he is the unit is likely to attract attention unless hidden behind something else. Terrain will be important and if your opponent gets a hill you might have some problems. Personally since I play WE I would hit the unit with 10-20 glade guard longbows (S3 usually 4+ to hit on turn 1) and then one Hail of doom arrow (3D6 S4 shots usually hitting on 2+).

Enigmatik1
09-09-2009, 14:44
As for the protection of the hierophant 5 light horsemen doesnt really do much. As soon as one of them is dead you have to randomize and your hierophant can get hit. Since everyone will know who he is the unit is likely to attract attention unless hidden behind something else. Terrain will be important and if your opponent gets a hill you might have some problems. Personally since I play WE I would hit the unit with 10-20 glade guard longbows (S3 usually 4+ to hit on turn 1) and then one Hail of doom arrow (3D6 S4 shots usually hitting on 2+).

Good point. If it were me, I'd have a 20 model TG unit waiting to house the Hierophant. In this case, however, I'd probably be inclined towards the Heavy Horse unit (gah...did I just say that out loud...:confused:)

:chrome:

Dragon Prince of Caledor
09-09-2009, 18:46
As far as lists themselves go that list will get owned. Not enough models. Heavy horsemen are a waste of time. Atleast the light ones can shoot.
Just my opinion :)

Enigmatik1
09-09-2009, 18:55
As far as lists themselves go that list will get owned. Not enough models. Heavy horsemen are a waste of time. Atleast the light ones can shoot.
Just my opinion :)

You're probably right, DP. The OP is purposefully trying out units that people generally don't use or consider a waste of time/points. :D

Let's face it, anything we put on the table that's a Core selection (and not a Chariot) is basically a waste of points and time. No matter how you slice things, a Skeleton is a Skeleton and Skeletons DON'T WIN COMBATS...EVAR! :evilgrin:

So, you can either go the cram as many skeletons on the table approach and watch them all die quickly to CR or use those same points and put mobile Skeletons on the table. Either way, the suck unless they're shooting. So it doesn't really matter in this case what he does imo!

And who knows, maybe his opponent will be laughing so hard when he declares a Heavy Horseman charge vs. a unit of Swordmasters or Chaos Warriors that he won't notice the Scorpion, Chariots and ticked-off-because-you-gave-me-the-Carmen-Miranda-hat-Bone Giants coming for his troops from the rear. ;)

Skywave
09-09-2009, 19:23
I think the weakness of this list is the bone giants. It's a huge point investment, and because of that you're lacking troops. You have very few target and even mild shooting can be a pain unless playing hide and seek for many turns.

Big heavy horsemen, while crappy, can be a surprise to you opponent and could be considered as "marching" skeleton :p If well supported by chariots and liches it can work.

But the points taken by 2 giants prevent you from getting more supporting unit, more light horsemen, some smaller heavy horsemen unit, chariots, other scorpions, or maybe 1 SCC.

lcfr
09-09-2009, 19:44
I'm definitely nuts, 'cus stone throwers in general have never appealed to me. Certainly not as a Dwarfs player (though this may have had something to do w/having access to other more reliable machines) and not as a TK player either; if you have to go w/one less BG then sink those points into more Carrion, maybe an additional Tomb Scorpion and more chariots. You're going all out offensive, no point grabbing a SSC that will have a hard time nailing its target much in two turns w/out the incant-support of a liche.

Keller
09-09-2009, 19:59
I think the weakness of this list is the bone giants. It's a huge point investment, and because of that you're lacking troops. You have very few target and even mild shooting can be a pain unless playing hide and seek for many turns.

Big heavy horsemen, while crappy, can be a surprise to you opponent and could be considered as "marching" skeleton :p If well supported by chariots and liches it can work.

But the points taken by 2 giants prevent you from getting more supporting unit, more light horsemen, some smaller heavy horsemen unit, chariots, other scorpions, or maybe 1 SCC.

I agree here. As much as I like the bone-giants, two of them in this army is probably not a good idea. I would drop one, maybe cull the heavy horsemen a bit and add another unit or two of light horsemen to give some shooting options. Some units the Tk just can't stand up to in combat, such as Sword Masters and the like, so some shooting will help a lot.

Also, I think 13+ is too large for any cavalry unit. The Heavy skeletons are vulnerable, but I wouldn't take anymore than 8 or 10, and just have a second unit of them.

Malorian
09-09-2009, 20:42
I was playing with the same idea and came up with this list:

High priest w/ cloak pf dunes, hieratic jar
Prince w/ flail of skulls, shield, chariot
Prince w/ flail, shield, chariot

20 heavy horsemen w/ full command
20 heavy horsemen w/ full command
20 heavy horsemen w/ full command
5 light horsemen
5 light horsemen

3 chariots
3 chariots
tomb scorpian
tomb scorpian

Total: 2246


People seem to think heavy horsemen such but thanks to magical charges they will hit you fast and hard when fully ranked (and for knights they are fairly cheap). Once you win you are sure to outnumber and can keep on blitzing :)

Skywave
09-09-2009, 20:51
The point of large heavy horsemen in this kind of list will be to provide static CR while flanking with chariot or other stuff. With a 15-strong unit you get 2 rank bonus and a banner, wich will help furher the flanking unit. It kinda replace skeleton on foot, but that will be able to keep pace with chariot.

Enigmatik1
10-09-2009, 12:50
The point of large heavy horsemen in this kind of list will be to provide static CR while flanking with chariot or other stuff. With a 15-strong unit you get 2 rank bonus and a banner, wich will help furher the flanking unit. It kinda replace skeleton on foot, but that will be able to keep pace with chariot.

Good point, Sky. The only thing I'm wondering is how many units of Heavy Horsemen to use? Three seems excessive at 20 models per. Taking Malorian's list as a basis, which I oddly like despite the abundance of skeletons without bows (hehe), how about this for Core?

20 Heavy Horsemen w/ Full Command (and maybe BotUL? I'm sad we can't give this unit the Icon of Rakaph)
10 Heavy Horsemen (x2) w/ Standards only
5 Light Horsemen (x2)

You'd then free up some odd 300 points to use elsewhere in the list...like some Carrion and/or another Priest on horseback.

My gut is screaming for some Ushabti in this list but they are only marginally more durable than a skeleton, slower and quite a bit more expensive. :cries:

I may adopt this project for my next game should I get enough skeleton horsemen before I play again.

Skywave
10-09-2009, 18:52
I don't think a list with only horsemen will be a good idea. A big unit with the BotUL is probably all that is needed as far as static combat resolution go. You need good support from chariot to hit the enemy, the horsemen on their own won't kill much, being normal skeleton.

I woudn't invest more in additional heavy horsemen personally, more in chariot and light horsemen. Also if going more aggressive, I could drop all rare choice altogether and get more chariot, scorpion (and carrion for those that used them).

lcfr
10-09-2009, 20:27
Hmm...maybe the BGs aren't such a bad idea, one of them anyways. Could one of our Mathhammerheads tell us how many unsaved wounds a BG ought to cause w/Unstoppable Assault assuming it's hitting on 4s (which it will be most of the times); should make up for its low WS no?

jason
11-09-2009, 02:29
One item I have wondered about in a list such as the above, is the one that gives your character in chariot a unit strength of 5 to negate ranks. I don't have my book for the specific name. In an all cavalry force (or any army for that matter), how often would you let your character swing out on his own. My gut says keep him in the unit. I can see this item being a surprise to your opponent (as again - most people don't bring it to the table). Thoughts?

mortetvie
11-09-2009, 05:13
I don't see why you don't give your TK the flail of skulls as he will get a lot more out of it than the TP. If taking a TP, give him the chariot of fire as that really adds a huge punch along with any 25 point magic weapon or a flail and call it a day. You might want to put them in a chariot unit with a +1 to hit banner as that unit will tear through almost anything.

For LP, why not take cloak and hieretic jar on heirophant and some scrolls on other...blue khepra looks good on paper but is too situational and people can ignore the unit he is in.

Also, I would make the heavy horsemen unit at least 15 strong for the extra rank bonus, why not?

Enigmatik1
11-09-2009, 13:19
Any character on a chariot with the Flail of Skulls is a potential problem for your opponent. I had a Prince with the Flail in a chariot unit completely destory a TG unit and the Slann therein in two rounds of combat. There were lucky rolls involved by the accompanying skeletons. But the Prince lit big fatty up once he got into BtB contact.

I've never used the Blue Khepra in a list. I just usually don't have the points to spare and it's expensive. I'm always tempted to try to work it in. Our magic defense is pretty crappy for such a magically reliant army. The BK is the one way to address the issue. We aren't a Horde undead army like VC can be. My 2k point armies tend to be about as small as the HE ones I face. My chariot unit and my TG unit get most of the work done in my lists and draw the most attention. Skeletons are generally ignored. The BK may potentially protect one of my workhorse units from a High Elf, Lizardman or Skaven magical onslaught.

I just can never muster the nerve to spend the points on it. :p

lcfr
11-09-2009, 14:16
One item I have wondered about in a list such as the above, is the one that gives your character in chariot a unit strength of 5 to negate ranks. I don't have my book for the specific name. In an all cavalry force (or any army for that matter), how often would you let your character swing out on his own. My gut says keep him in the unit. I can see this item being a surprise to your opponent (as again - most people don't bring it to the table). Thoughts?

Once he becomes US5 he can be picked out of the chariot unit anyways, so if you're going to run the item you may as well have the prince fly solo. If the controlling player is careful he can do some damage and take on weaker, less static cr reliant units on his own.