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SitNoir
11-09-2009, 05:28
Hey everyone =)

Just getting into the game, insofar as having a look through the different armies avaliable and what I like the look of =P
However, I've narrowed it down to a few choices, and I've got some questions I hope you can help with =)

Running down the list of armies -

Empire - Looking through the book at the store, nothing really jumped out at me. Plus I've never been a fan of playing a human in a Fantasy setting, perhaps that's just me =)
Brentonia - See above.
Skaven - I hate rats =(
Ogres - I've never personally been a fan of "smash smash things" - So it didn't really appeal to me.
High Elves - While I like Elves, the High Elves just seemed too "prissy" for me, which is saying something!
Dark Elves - Definately liked the look of these guys, I definately think that I could have fun painting and playing them.
Wood Elves - As above, almost into the realms of the High Elves, but they've got that 'down to Earth' feel about them - Without extending into being a Hippy =(
Daemons of Chaos - I hate horror films with Aliens and Daemons, don't think I'd like playing them =(
Warriors of Chaos - See above mentioned 'Human complex' - even though they're 'bad' humans, still doesn't appeal to me.
Beasts of Chaos - See above, Daemons of Chaos.
Dwarves - I was never a fan of Snow White =(
Orcs and Goblins - See Ogres.
Tomb Kings - Since there's two undead armies, I had to make the decision which one I liked the look of more. Tomb Kings lost out. Sorry guys =(
Vampire Counts - Who doesn't like Vampires!
Lizardmen - The look of the guys don't appeal to me =(

So in a nutshell, I whittled it down to - Dark Elves, Wood Elves or Vampire Counts.

So here's where I need your assistance.
I'm going to be building up an army slowly, so I can get a feel for the troops, how they play, and well, the game in general ^_^
What I'd like to know is, how these armies play, what would I be looking at if I chose them. I like the look of all three, and can see myself enjoying playing and painting them, so it comes down to how it works =)

Once I've got some Ideas and have chosen, I'll be building up an army in the army list forum and blogging the army as it grows in case anyone was curious =)

Thanks heaps in advance, and feel free to ask any questions =)

- Noir

Ultimate Life Form
11-09-2009, 06:15
Dark Elves:

Movement:
Dark Elves are Elves and as such are naturally quick, but have a good variety of cavalry and chariots to choose from, to. You can have the advantage over many armies here.
Magic:
DE Magic is devastating. It would certainly pay to invest a bit here.
Shooting:
DE have real nasty shooting with their crossbows.
Close Combat:
This is where they lack a bit. Elves have superior Weapon Skill and Ini, but their strength is average and they all have Toughness 3 which makes them vulnerable. You need to break things on the charge or you won't survive the feedback.

Overall feel:
DE have been likened to a surgical blade; you need to rely on precise tactics. Take advantage of your superior mobility and choose your battles wisely. DE cannot just charge and bash heads like other armies, you need to choose the right target for your charge, only attacking things you have a decent chance to win against.
Magic Items selection is excellent, you'll have a lot of nasty tricks up your sleeve.
DE also have the option to spam quite a lot of nasty monsters which may be appealing to you. Of course, the playstyle must change a bit in that case. The first thing you should try to find out is if you like how monsters play and if you want to go big on them.

Wood Elves:

Movement:
Definitely superior. You have elven speed and lotsa fast cavalry, just like DE, but with the added bonus of passing through woods without penalty. This is so incredibly annoying I find no words for it. The usual WE tactic is to surround the enemy before striking. This is probably also the army with the most skirmishing units so if you like it these are for you.
Magic:
Definitely subpar. Don't expect a successful Magic Phase; WE usually are content to bring a few Scroll caddies to fight enemy Magic, but not much else.
Shooting:
This is where they are supposed to shine; however many armies have better shooting. Still the S4 on short range and no penalty for move and shoot make focused shooting on the right units quite deadly.
Close Combat:
Dont get your Elves into close combat with anything that has Toughness 4 or higher and/or a halfway decent Armor Save. This basically means half the armies out there. They won't be able to scratch them. That is what your Forest Spirits are for. The Dryads are a bit fickle; sometimes they charge, do nothing, flee and are run down. At other times, they single-handedly kill everything in sight. I once charged a bunch of Dryads with 30 Plague Monks. 15 attacks. No wounds. Dryads strike back, kill 10!!! Plague Monks. I lose, flee, get killed. My General was in the unit, too!:cries: The Treeman is next to unkillable and probably the toughest monster in the game.


Overall feel:
The 'Glass Cannon'. Move around the enemy in circles and shoot him into submission (oh, so annoying)! Use Forest Spirits to wipe out tougher enemies your archers are ineffective against. Still, WE struggle against tough opponents. As my friend once put it, 'Special Rules won't help you against me, but simply taking something tough that I can't kill will give me trouble'. And the Magic Items selection is a joke really.

Vampire Counts:

Movement:
Vampires cannot march unless a Vampire is within 6". You have to keep that in mind when making a list and planning your tactics. Also you have a nice spell that grants an additional 8" movement. Even then, most stuff is pretty slow. Expect your enemy to choose his battles. This is probably the exact opposite of WE, with no skirmishers and mostly Movement 4.
Magic:
VC are entirely dependent on Magic and you can adjust the 'difficulty' setting of your army as follows: the more and the meaner wizards you have, the harder will your army be to beat. It's not because Vampire Magic is a great weapon, but it has an important support role. Invocation of Nehek is of utmost importance, then comes Vanhels. The other spells are only for times when you have no useful target to cast those two on. Vampires dominate Magic Phase.
Shooting:
Shooting? What shooting?:confused:
Close Combat:
Your Core troops are a bunch of pathetic losers but useful to tarpit enemy troops with until something meaner arrives to smash them. The enemy has a Dragon? Who cares, charge it with a block of Zombies. If you cast them back each turn with Invoc, the Dragon will be stuck for the entire game. Your Characters are also important here, and a fighty Vampire Lord is a really nasty thing. Undead can't win by themselves, but with assistance of a litle Magic and a mean character this soon changes. It is very important to have a strategy for this Phase. Blood Knights however can usually kill anything on the charge.

Overall feel:
The shambling hordes of the Undead, powered by dark Magic...
Very unique feel, and the army is so incredibly customizable that no list is like another. It is up to you to find out what you like and give the army it's feel. So many choices in troops, characters and Magic Items, and all great! I think these are the best kind of armies.:)

Tarian
11-09-2009, 06:38
I'm stealing ULF's format, as it's a very good one.

High Elves:

Movement:
Like all Elves, High Elves are extremely fast and maneuverable, throw in some cheap fliers and you have arguable one of the most flexible armies in the game. Good Heavy Cav, and faster than average infantry make it very hard for most armies to pick their fights against the HE.
Magic:
High Elves are considered one of the best magic users in the game. With access to 9 lores and a large amount of potential power dice/dispel dice generation, they are not only good at dishing it out, but also blocking it too.
Shooting:
Very lackluster. The only thing worth shooting for the most part are RBTs and Magic Bows. Archers are usually there to fill a core choice and die heroically.
Close Combat: Compared to the other Elves... HE are actually very good here. High WS and I help, but most importantly, Always Strike First. This allows our Great Weapon equipped infantry to be devastating against many armies, and you usually find things like Sword Masters getting shot at rather than the enemy daring to engage them.


Overall feel:
They're prissy, and proud of it. They've evolved into a small, fast, hard-hitting force that is weak in shooting, armour and toughness, but powerful in both melee and magic. They also have access to the best/most dragons in the game. Treat them as a glass hammer, and they'll do great. Use them as an anvil, and they'll get smashed.

Condottiere
11-09-2009, 09:28
I have the feeling that you're going for the more glamourous armies, but that's okay.

You also seem to have a preference for the badboy aspect, or at least one more neutral, which is why it was narrowed down to DE, WE and VC.

I don't think the WE are for you, since they have a more hit and run approach.

DE are fast aggressive, while VC usually take a longer while to get into contact, but have more endurance.

It may come down to playstyle - if you prefer to risk everything in the beginning, Dark Elves are for you; if you prefer to grind down your opponent Vampires might suit you more.

And if you're a fan of Twilight, it doesn't matter.

SitNoir
11-09-2009, 13:53
And if you're a fan of Twilight, it doesn't matter.

*Vomit* :eyebrows:

So judging from the responses, I'm looking at either Vampires or Dark Elves.
I'll have a look at the books and see what I like =)

Any other tips are appreciated =)

Ultimate Life Form
11-09-2009, 19:47
Alright, it seems I was able to help a bit. Let's see what suits your tastes. In the meantime, I suggest reading these excellent articles on the respective Lores of the armies in question to give you a feeling for it and help you decide.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2289418&postcount=18

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3051401&postcount=26

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3436250&postcount=30

Wolfmother
11-09-2009, 19:59
I hate horror films with Aliens and Daemons, don't think I'd like playing them =(

but vampires are a different story whats the difference lmfao

PeG
11-09-2009, 20:07
As a WE player I feel a need of at least making an argument for them.

Shooting, although we dont have warmachines which makes it impossible for us to build gunlines (at least not immobile ones) I still have to face an army that can outshoot my shooty list. 30 inches range, S4 in short range and the superior movement of elves compared to most other armies gives them an advantage against most armies especially on a board with lots of terrain.

All units in the book are useful (well not of the special characters) which gives a lot of variation to the list and play style. Our biggest weakness is magic defence and especially spells that doesnt require line of sight.

We also have trees in various sizes for combat and noone will accuse you for playing a cheesy army which is something that you will hear playing DE or VC.

Rockgut
11-09-2009, 20:28
I don't like Dark Elves, but they are multi-dimensional and a good army to learn the game with. They have ranked troops/good CR, strong magic, skirmishers, cavalry, effective shooting, war machines, psychology, monsters, mounts, etc. There are multiple ways you can build a DE army and have it be effective.

Vampires strategies typically focus around spamming magic to raise/replenish troops and/or really strong characters in CC. They have no shooting and are immune to psychology (which is nice, but can limit learning about all aspects of the game because you never have to deal with it)

I think WE would be the hardest to learn the game with because they are the most unforgiving. They rely much more on movement and the coordinated actions of your troops, which may be hard to pull off when you are new to the game. But if you like tactical movement and cat and mouse/hit and run troops with very little static CR, then WE would be the choice. They are my favorite.

cyberspite
11-09-2009, 23:03
I agree with rockgut that WE's would be the most unforgiving of the three to learn with, but they are also very rewarding when you win

Charistoph
12-09-2009, 04:59
And if you're a fan of Twilight, it doesn't matter.

Hehe, Warhammer vampires have as much in common with Twilight vampires as the Daemons of Chaos do with Little Nicky (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0185431).

The good news is that both DE and VC armies are considered top tier and are very competitive. Once you have your brain wrapped around their playstyle and your preferred tactics, you can be very successful with either.

Tarian
12-09-2009, 17:24
I'm still waiting for someone to convert a Twilight Themed VC list.

Charistoph
13-09-2009, 06:58
I'm still waiting for someone to convert a Twilight Themed VC list.

Would be somewhat easy with the old book, just use Lahmian and Blood Dragons as your vampires.

Of course, that's if you're going with Edward's lot...

But then Necromancy hasn't been noted as a part of the Twilight series... Slaanesh WoC?

Condottiere
13-09-2009, 07:05
Remember to coat the character models with sparkly glittery stuff after painting is completed.

Tarian
13-09-2009, 15:31
I think the sparkly vampire thing was one of the most horrific abominations in the vampire lore. >.<

Condottiere
13-09-2009, 15:36
It's so difficult to make western vampires kawaii.