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rsowell
11-09-2009, 05:55
My friend is looking to start fantasy with me and needs some help deciding an army. He wants to make sure he doesnt pick an army like Necrons or Tau where only one list is viable and even then you can get screwed. He likes elves and wants to play either High Elves or Wood Elves, but is open to any suggestions. Any insights? Hes looking to avoid "low tier" armies.

Tarian
11-09-2009, 06:07
Tier-wise, High Elves are rated higher than Wood Elves in my opinion, though Dark Elves are rated higher is the general consensus.

HE are considered one of the better armies, probably the 4th best, or somewhere thereabouts.

pcgamer72
11-09-2009, 06:51
High Elves and Wood Elves both have a variety of builds that are competitive. Neither one of them is a pushover, so your friend should be happy with either in those regards. I'd suggest reading both army books or reviewing the models again in order to make a choice.

Mullitron
11-09-2009, 09:27
Yeah all the elf armies can be fun and competative with a variety of army lists, they also have a great selection of models.

kormas
11-09-2009, 10:33
one thing with wood elves, they take a certine amount of finesse to use, they are not very forgiving of mistakes.

high elves arnt very forgiving either, but they are deffinatly easier to use than wood elves.

i would recomend high elves, even though IMO wood elves are far more fun to use and collect.

Condottiere
11-09-2009, 10:36
Competitive HE armies at 2K seemed to be limited to Teclis plus support, or Star Dragon.

Commodus Leitdorf
11-09-2009, 11:29
Of the three Wood Elves and Dark elves offer the most variety. High elves, though tough can be...well...boring.

That being said some of the funnest games I have had at tounaments have been against High Elves. Itrs just there playstyle doesn't have the same diversity as Dark or Wood Elves.

PeG
11-09-2009, 15:49
also it depends a bit on point level. I play WE and usually beat HE in games below 2k provided that the board has some terrain on it (preferrably woods). When they get a caster lord at 2k it becomes a bit more complicated and will depend on specific lists, terrain etc but usually close games.

Brother Drakist
11-09-2009, 15:56
If he likes to be a little tricky and strategize more I would go Wood Elves. If he likes Dragons a lot, and moving up and smacking the enemy then I suggest High Elves. However bear in mind that High Elves kind of take an important element of the game, setting up charges, and completely bypasses it with ASF. Just my opinion though. Boith are good forces.

maaksel
11-09-2009, 16:12
Honestly, he can play any elf army... with wood elves being last, high elves then dark elves.

Just don't start out like I did - playing all Dryads. It was fun, but unless you enjoy losing - or playing against friends in 'for fun' games only. Don't join a league with a 'fluffy' list as they are GENERALLY not as competitive.

The Red Scourge
11-09-2009, 16:25
High Elves are a bore.

Dark Elves are accused of being cheesy.

And my Wood Elves massacre them every time :cheese:

- also, the wood elves are by far the funniest and most rewarding army to play in the entire game. They look far better than any other elves (and most other armies). Noone accuses you of having cheesy special rules or overpowered thing-a-majics, and best of all; each and every one of the units gets fielded regularly, as none are a poorer choice than the other :)

Drachen_Jager
12-09-2009, 00:23
There's a few threads around, the general consensus seems to be

Tier 1)

Daemons

Tier 2)

Dark Elves, High Elves, Vampire Counts.

Tier 3)

All others not mentioned above or below.

Tier 4)

Ogre Kingdoms, Orks and Goblins, Tomb Kings.
Some people would add Dwarfs and Skaven.

1 tier of separation is no big deal, 2 means an uphill battle but skill will still be the more decisive factor if the higher tier player didn't max out on cheese, 3 is a tough fight no matter what.

artyboy
12-09-2009, 15:16
I'd put lizardmen in Tier 2 before High Elves. In fact, I'd probably count High Elves as a tier 3 army. I fight them a lot with my vamps and the only time I lose is when I make glaring mistakes. Dark elves are definitely a tier above high elves.

Jiggy
12-09-2009, 15:47
My opinion
tier 1
daemons, VC, lizards

tier 2
high elves, dark elves

tier 3
all others not mentioned above or below

tier 4
skaven, Ogre kingdoms, O&G

I think lizardmen can be devastating with some careful playing and the tomb kings are not that bad considering they can get a vital spell to pass for sure.For example placing their deathstar unit in front of yours and having closely all their casters.That way they get 6 casts on the spell wich is usually more than your DD or srolls left.

PeG
12-09-2009, 19:24
I would say that skaven doesnt beling in tier 4 today and in November they are likely to be tier 1 or 2 when the new book comes out.

Nathangonmad
13-09-2009, 01:11
tier 1
daemons, VC

tier 2
high elves, dark elves, lizards, skaven gunlines, thorek lines

tier 3
all others not mentioned above or below

tier 4
Ogre kingdoms, O&G, beasts

zerachiel
13-09-2009, 05:57
My opinion
I think lizardmen can be devastating with some careful playing

By that you of course mean "massing Stegadons". :p I kid.

Though out of the three Elves lists, Dark Elves are definitely strongest in terms of tournament presence, with High Elves second and Wood Elves third.

All three Elves books eventually boil down to long-range warfare from what I've seen in the local circuits, with Dark Elves spamming repeaters and horrendous attack magic, High Elves spamming Archers/Repeaters and generally shutting magic down as long as possible, and Wood Elves just firing everywhere and moving trees about. Just make sure your friend understands that Elves are all about shooting, and barring their one close-combat juggernaut the other units fold like so much flimsy paper as soon as (or if) the other army gets to them.

They all have good enough counter-magic and mobility to hold their own in the current metagame, unlike a certain book that I really love but cannot even get beyond a 4+ armour save no matter how hard they try (hint: It's Ogre Kingdoms). :cries:

Angelust
13-09-2009, 07:57
I own both HE and WE, and I'd actually suggest going for Dark Elves based upon your description,.

I would personally recommend Dark Elves for semi-competitive play. I know you didn't list that as an option, but if he's looking for elves that won't lose too often and has some diverse capabilities, then Dark Elves will probably provide the best results.

Generally speaking, they excel in most of the areas that High Elves and Wood elves do, though they're also very good at close combat and mobile machine-gunning. Against magic heavy High Elves, Ring of Hotek wins. Agains Sethalaya fast cav lists, Dark Elf crossbows win. Against balanced lists, Dark Elf balance includes 360 LOS hydras with hatred, ASF hatred halberd troops, double-tapping Great Weaponed Shades (with hatred, ugh), etc etc.

The funny thing is though, I'd rather play against Dark Elves than High Elves or Wood Elves. High elves are usually quite predictable with an ultra-aggressive Star Drag/Drag Prince/Battle banner list, or stand back and shoot/magic with decent counter-charge list.

Wood elves will usually always be wood elves, though at least careful movement plays a part. Still, you usually either eliminate their mobility and win big, or run around the board in circles for 5 turns. Not particularly fun.

Zarroc
13-09-2009, 08:13
As an experience wood elf player, i suggest not collecting them as your first army, they are too hard to use correctly for new players

High Elves are alright, they can be tailored to fight any army

However

Dark Elves rock, and are the best elves hands down ^^ duel hydra list :D

Condottiere
13-09-2009, 08:13
I think their new army book has forced High Elves to be aggressive, since they can't afford to stand around and let the opponent have the initiative.

samuel44
14-09-2009, 01:34
I play both wood elves and dark elves and although i like my dark elves i much prefer playing with my wood elves. There is nothing more fun than running around dennying the opponents most powerful units a fight, multi-charging isolated units and absolutely destroying them in a turn and generally moving trees about in a way that really gets on the opponents nerves (e.g. forest infront of war machines). When i'm playing them i feel much more like a tactician and hence have a lot more fun. Having said that the dark elves are a much more competetivie list, they are a lot more forgiving and can deel with almost any lists.

A word of warning though, I sarted collecting wood elves first and really struggled to win with them. It took me a long time to get used to them (~1year of a game every couple of weeks). Infact it was only after i brought my dark elves and played some games with them that i really got the hang of using the wood elves, and thats also when i started to really enjoy their play style. Now i much prefer the challenge of the wood elves and they can be really competitive, with a few good builds.

I have also played about a douzen or so games using my firends high elf army. In my opinion they are a very intersting army which are quite fun to play and can excell in most phases depending on the build. I think the ASF is a bit annoying for opponents but when your playing high elves you've got to love it. However, in my opinion high elves are just a bunch of pansies, so i wouldn't collect them.

Go for wood elves if he's up for a challenge, dark elves if he wants to be competitive. High elves if he's ..

Bloodless
14-09-2009, 10:05
I'd put lizardmen in Tier 2 before High Elves. In fact, I'd probably count High Elves as a tier 3 army. I fight them a lot with my vamps and the only time I lose is when I make glaring mistakes. Dark elves are definitely a tier above high elves.

Not only do I think think lizards are a competitive army. I think they are fun to play and play against. Lizards also have more plausible list options then most other armies.

Ereinion
17-09-2009, 14:02
at my local store lizards and dark elves are seen alot.
Recently i have been looking at doind a new army, and as this post, looking to compete with the tier 1/2 armies but i dont want what everyone else has.

I have considered wood elves and high elves as neither are used, or possibly a WOC army (Throgg style possibly)

What sort of lists do people use for comp high elves/wood elves.

Im aware of the Dragon prince high elve list, but not sure whats included at 2000/2250?

My knowledge is with skaven, beastmen and bretonians, but want something different.

Tarian
17-09-2009, 15:33
HE use: Dragon Lord, Big Unit of Dragon Princes with BSB, min. core, and fill the rest with a scroll caddy/random decent units.

samuel44
17-09-2009, 16:38
For Wood Elves I use: Treeman Ancient, BSB, 2 Spellweaver, 10 Glade Guard, 8 Dryads, 5 Glade Riders (sometimes 2) , 6 Wild Riders, 3 times 5 Wardancers and then either a second treeman or Waywatchers and Great Eagle

Ereinion
17-09-2009, 20:30
@ Tarian - Yes, this is sort of what i was thinking, plus adding bolt throwers and great eagles. Whats most useful as min core troops?

samuel44, thats a cool loking list, loads of nice figures to paint. Im really tempted with more Forest Spirit style list, but including spell weavers and Wild/Glade riders (all converted to fit the theme) then either waywatchers or wardancers or both if possible in 2000-2250

Tarian
17-09-2009, 20:57
Well, usually 2x10 archers just for cheapness and shooting. I use 1x10 archers and 1x14 spears for a little bit of defense for my bolts/scroll caddy.

My actual list also has 14 Sword Masters for an additional hitting unit and as a fire magnet.

lcfr
17-09-2009, 21:04
one thing with wood elves, they take a certine amount of finesse to use, they are not very forgiving of mistakes.

Quoted for truth

Ereinion
25-09-2009, 14:05
what sort of competetive list are there out there in the tournement environment for wood elves? i know they are used, but every time i write a list it feels un-finished.
Who has great amounts of luck with wood elves and what lists?