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AussieSocks
12-09-2009, 02:14
Slann Mage-Priest 325pts
Focussed Rumination
Rod of the Storm

Skink Chief 369pts
Battle Standard Bearer
Stegadon, Stegadon War-spear
Light Armour, Shield

Skink Priest 125pts
Level 2 Wizard
Diadem of Power

20x Saurus Warriors 252pts
Spears, Standard

20x Temple Guard 334pts
Standard

16x Skinks 198pts
2x Kroxigors
Standard

10x Skink Skirmishers 70pts

10x Skink Skirmishers 70pts

10x Skink Skirmishers 70pts

3x Terradons 90pts

THEN either:

3x more terradons

OR

10x Chameleon Skinks

My thinking is that the BSB is flexible, he's mobile, which is good to move his little re-roll bubble around and the extra CR will hopefully help break any enemies on the charge.

2 units of skinks move ahead of the saurus/ mixed units, blowpiping hounds and stand/shooting any redirectors or light cavalry, the third will move ahead of the stegadon, hopefully preventing chargers and protecting the beastie from harrassment.

The Slann Mage Priest is offensive mostly, although i think my LD 9, cold blooded BSB supported Battle Lines should hopefully be knight-proof, i think i'll still use metal.

However i love the flexibility of switching to beasts or fire etc.

Caligula
12-09-2009, 02:25
Gotta say, AussieSocks, I really dig this list. It's kind of cool to see a Lizardmen list without the Engine of the Gods, and instead having the Skink Chief on a Stegadon. Very nice.

Your Saurus blocks are rock solid, and from my experience, they do the business with the best of them out there. Again, very nice. Keep in mind I'm not a Lizardmen player myself, but have had some experience against them, and witnessed a few pretty decent battles as well.

I think I would go for the Chameleon Skinks, because from what I've seen if you can keep them out of harms way(ie. close combat), and maximize their shooting potential, they're great...and being Chameleon Skinks, keeping them out of close combat should prove to be fairly reasonable to do most of the time.

Sorry that I can't give more advice or comments on the list in more detail, but from what I can tell, it looks quite nice, and it's something I'd really love the chance to play against. The word "balanced" seems to be used quite a bit, perhaps to much, but when I look at this list, balanced springs to mind, and in a very good way. I really like it.

Oh, and I should also say I really like how you've kept your Slann Mage-Priest relatively cheap, and yet still pretty effective at throwing out some devastating spells. Yup, nice list indeed!

Caligula
12-09-2009, 02:32
Oh, and another thing I like to see is the unit of ranked up Skinks with a couple Kroxigor thrown in. A lot of people don't use this, and I think it's a shame. Beyond the fact that it turns out looking quite cool(which is reasons enough to use it, really...), I've seen such a unit used as a really effective flanking force. It speeds up a flank and causes trouble, and doing this even ends up coming out on top a lot of the time. For the most part, units on the flank of an enemy army will not be your opponents stronger units, more likely they'll be Skirmishers and Fast Cavalry, and the mixed unit of Skinks and Kroxigor can actually handle these threats pretty well much of the time.

I think the Krox/Skink unit is overlooked for the most part, and it happens to be one of the units I like best in the Lizardmen army. Is it the most effective all around? Nope, of course not, and I'm sure AussieSocks knows this. But applied in the correct way and in the correct spot on the battlefield, can actually work out quite well.

AussieSocks
12-09-2009, 02:45
Cheers man, i'm kinda nervous about the temple guard unit getting crushed by blood knights or something so i tried not to spend to much on the slann.

Chameleon skinks are there more for the models than the rules... and i hate doubling up on special/rare choices.

Just realised the list also has 2 razordons (together) in a pack with extra crew, they hold a flank against the standard annoying stuff.

So yeah, any other comments?

anything i could improve? any glaring weaknesses in the line-up?

personally i'm worried it's too small, i tinkered with adding a unit of cold one riders but i needed to sacrifice almost all my support units to do it so i'm not sure.

Caligula
12-09-2009, 03:13
Sorry man, like I said, I'm woefully ignorant on much of the Lizardmen stuff. One thing I do know though is, from my experience with 2000 point Lizardmen lists, you're actually doing really good for numbers!

Props for using Razordons too, man! I don't see enough people using them, and in my opinion, they're great. A very cool choice for flank defense, as most of the Razordon's special rules really are geared towards a defensive role.

Sorry I can't be of more help, my friend. Honestly though, it looks for all intents and purposes like a really well done, and well balanced list, and I'm sure it'll serve you well. I wouldn't worry about the Temple Guard, particularly with the Slann in there...they aren't budging;)

If you end up playing this list anytime soon, I'd love to see some battle reports on it, just to see how it plays. I have a feeling it'll have a good chance to holding up just fine, and dishing out some major punishment.

AussieSocks
12-09-2009, 03:29
haha, that's the plan jan.

cheers mate, feeling alot more confident after the numbers comment :D

will do, might start up some kind of blog on warseer somewhere, we'll see.

One question though: i have 5 DD, that's it for magical defence, would i be better served dropping something (skinks? or chameleon skinks :'( ) for Becalming Cogitation (pick a wizard, delete any 6s he rolls to cast) or a couple o' scrolls?

just worried about infernal gateway, gork'll fix it, wind of undeath, rot, glorious rot, comet of cassandora etc etc....

Caligula
12-09-2009, 04:13
Yeah dude, actually The Becalming Cogitation is just SICK against enemy spellcasters, and it's something I'd really recommend if you're going up against a lot of magic heavy enemies. Dispel Scrolls are always good too, but for some strange and somewhat neurotic reason of mine, I rarely, if ever, take Dispel Scrolls...although there's been times where I kicked myself for not doing so. For some reason I just don't take them, preferring other methods of dealing with enemy magic, even if it's just as simple as going after enemy Wizards with some nasty unit of mine and killing him before he can do much harm.

Being a Nurgle player, yeah...Rot, Glorious Rot is definately one of those spells that is a worry, same for Infernal Gateway. It never hurts to take a few DScrolls of you're so inclined, but for my tastes, the Becalming Cogitation is what I'd put my money one. Scrolls just seem so...blah to me, despite their obvious usefullness, so that's just my opinion;)

In my 2000 point WoC army, I think I actually only have 4 or 5 Dispel Dice, which is pretty shabby in terms of magical defense. However, the games in which magic has totally owned me because of this I can count on one hand. I just do my best to kill the pesky spellcasters if I can manage, and suffer out the rest. Magic is typically so bloody unreliable that I find it much less of a threat than I originally thought, although that does sometimes come back to bite me.

I think Becalming Cogitation is your answer here, my friend....it can definately ruin an enemy wizards best laid plans. Not to mention, the thought of a mighty toad wizard casually waving away the enemy's most powerful spell with a flick of his long, multi-jointed fingers is too cool to ignore.

"Pathetic Warm-blood mageling" *snap* *fizzle*

Necromancy Black
12-09-2009, 04:20
I'm really surprised the BSB is not on the Slann. Yes, it's putting more point in that unit, but Blood Knights and Chaos Knights are going to kill your skink chief a lot, lot easier then they will kill your Slann's unit, same with cannons and magic. Besides, your Slann with the Ld 9 should be the stone of your army and giving him the BSB really helps.
Plus on of the best ways for those saurus to kill stuff is to take a charge, use the Slann's Ld and BSB to hold, then use that unit of skinks and kroxigors to flank charge and finish them all off.

If your looking at COR, don't bother unless you put a Scar-Vet with them to give them that extra hit.

Wouldn't bother with the charmeleon skinks, you've already got 30 skinks and 10 more other skinks won't make that much of a different. The extra 3 Terradons however will, especially against a gunline army where they can stop war machines and shooting taking out your steg.

AussieSocks
12-09-2009, 07:15
don't wanna double up on special choices.

BSB in on the skink for manouvrability.

I "hate" super important units that are the "stone" of armies, makes the army too inflexible as you spend too much time playing protect the VIP.

Hey NB, whats wrong with COR stats wise? better than empire knights/ kotr/ COK/ silver helms etc.... ?? Sure they're a little more than usual, but thats more of the way they blend in with the rest of the army, COR by themselves aren't worth 35pts but when skink screened and with Terries flying around, i'd risk saying they might be very worth it.

But thanks, advice greatly appreciated NB, thanks as always Cally.

Necromancy Black
12-09-2009, 11:33
I think you'll find manoeuvrability isn't going to be that big of a thing for the Stegadon. You want it where the main combat blocks are that you need to keep around, which is going to be those big blocks of 20. The steg should be flank charging stuff and breaking units on the charge, not hanging around in combat.

The stone does not make your army inflexible, nor do you have to rely on the unit. You have plenty of good flankers and fast units to keep your opponent guessing. But if that 20 block of saurus or that TG unit go, your very likely to be in trouble. Keep those two big units from breaking thanks to the Slann + BSB and you don't have to protect them, they'll protect themselves.

Yes, the stat line of COR are better then the basic empire cavalry, but that's not hard. They are on par with the DE riders as well (those things hurt on the charge and get better banners). But think about what you want to use them for: Breaking lite units on the charge and hurting power units. A unit of 5 is ok at the first but not as good at the second. A Scar-Vet can add a surprising amount of extra punch which really makes the unit excel at what they're meant to do.
Plus they are still by no means the best cavalry in the game. Chaos Knights, Blood Knights, hell even empire can get 1+ save knights that will beat you on the charge.

If your not going for another unit of Terradons, then increase your first unit to at least 4.

AussieSocks
12-09-2009, 13:00
Cheers NB, the terradon thing is a good point. i was worried about losing the US5 if i took a casualty.

i still think that COR hate is just standard thought, a str4 mount and two str5 attacks own empire knights, inner circle or not.

Stupidity sucks, but can you use cold-blooded on that? doesn't make sense.

You make some good points about the BSB thing, but i've already weighed up the pros and cons and i personally value manouvrability i little bit more. HOWEVER i haven't playtested this list so i can see it being very easy to kill the BSB off of the back of that steggie.

Will playtest the BSB thing

Necromancy Black
12-09-2009, 13:53
Don't get me wrong, I love COR to death, but I always take a Scar-Vet with them. The times I've not taken the Scar-Vet they've always been a bit sub par. A Scar-Vet tends to bring them up to scratch.

Stupidity is rarely a problem with Cold-Blooded, and if you start near a Slann you can almost guarantee it won't kick in for the first two turns.

Caligula
12-09-2009, 16:10
I'm with AussieSocks, I really dig the Cold One Cavalry, and from what I've seen they hit like a tonne of bricks...cold, scaly, toothy bricks. The Stupidity thing will rarely, if ever, come into play thanks to the blessing from the Old Ones themselves that is the Cold Blooded special rule, and yeah...even stats-wise they're a nasty piece of work. Pretty much every Lizardmen army list I've written up includes a unit of these bad boys.

I do find, though, that their effectiveness is increased manyfold by putting a Scar-Vet on a Cold One in with the unit. Five COC with a Saurus Hero on Cold One is a nasty, nasty thing to get charged by, and totally does the business. You can even leave the mounted Scar-Vet naked and he'll still earn his weight in gold...or else, blood.

Still love the list, AussieSocks, and would love to play against you one day!

Trigger36
12-09-2009, 20:12
The 2-krox 16-skink unit rarely works as intended. Either cavalry chews it to ribbons or shooting leaves you with nothing but Kroxigor. It's much better to use two units of 1-krox 11-skink units for screening, redirecting, flanking, and fear bombing. It's simply dividing your eggs into more baskets, and it works.