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JJMUS
12-09-2009, 21:29
I play against demons alot in the last few weeks.
Why does it seem that deamons magic is so much stronger then most other armies.My friend plays some tzee sorcerer lord and he gets +2 to all his casts and reroll with some tzee will or something like that.Just seems he gets to reroll alot even on miscasts.I took a dark elf magic army with morathi and got whipped because of this(something that made all dark elf spells -2 to cast)-is he playing this right or am i getting played?
Every1 says deamons are a tier 1 army and i agree but is it to much for other armies to be competative?

puppetmaster24
12-09-2009, 21:32
welcome to the wonderful world of unbalanced armies. the reason deamon magic seems stronger than other armies magic is because it is.

nosferatu1001
12-09-2009, 21:38
Erm, you cannot have both the reroll AND the +2 to cast: Cast is 75points while reroll is 70pts - you can get a "ignore miscast" item that is 25 points, but no other rerolls

Sounds like you got cheated: in addition the reroll is a single D6 per player turn

Edit: Standard of sundering makes any lore -2 to cast, chosen after wizards choose lores. You can miitigate this by choosing different lores for each wizard.

JJMUS
12-09-2009, 21:59
So its a standard?--that gives the -2 to miscast?didnt know this and if so if i kill the standard bearer its gone right?
And on the reroll thing can he use it if he miscasts?
He also said that the +2 means he,ll never miscast-i know this is wrong but making sure.

xragg
12-09-2009, 22:11
Double 1's are always miscasts regardless of the die result or modifiers to it.

Rerolls cannot save you from a miscast unless the item allowing you a reroll specifically states it can.

theunwantedbeing
12-09-2009, 22:13
So he took Kairos Fateweaver and a Battle Standard bearer with the Great Standard of Sundering, nothing too scary to be honest, its a perfectly legal setup.

Anymore info on the rest of the list?
Also, info on your list would be useful.

I could probably tell you exactly how to defeat his list with what you have so long as you can tell me what the lists had beyond the few details you've given already.

JJMUS
12-09-2009, 22:34
My list the second game with dark elves.

supreme sorceress-black amulet,darkstar cloak,peggy
sorceress-lv2,sac dagger-scroll
sorceress-lvl 2,powerstone-scroll
master-cold one,ha,sdc,pendant
assassin-166

17 warriors-fc,sh
17 warriors-fc,sh
6-dark riders-musc
9 COK's-fc,banner of hag greaf
5-black guard-to protect the bolt throwers
2 bolt throwers
hydra

that was my list

i dont really know what he had for sure(spec characters and magic items and such)

Greater Deamon
hearld on jugger
some 2 headed thing
plague bearers i think 20
bloodletters-20 i think
horrors 10 x 2
screamers 6 of them--wow these pack a punch
furies
bloodhounds?dog looking unit with the hearld in it


i think thats it-he wont disclose the finer points to me-he called it his tier 1
sorry i cant be more specific


The reason i posted this is because i think the magic and the magic items and abilities in the deamon book are outragous-1d6+1 hits at 1d6+1 str is the first spell--wow wtf--so it could be 7 hits at str7 for a one or two dice spell?
i know warriors has this to but ive never used it before-will be rethinking my warriors of chaos list for sure.

JJMUS
13-09-2009, 00:29
yes it was 2250

JJMUS
13-09-2009, 00:30
does kairos whatever not use powerdice to cast spells?

theunwantedbeing
13-09-2009, 00:34
Anything that sounds too good to be true in his list, demand he proves it to you in his armybook before carrying on.

Kairos uses dice as normal and generates 4 dice each turn.
So that army would have 8 powerdice in total.
2 pool dice, 1 for each horror unit and then the 4 Kairos generates.
Hardly a scary magic phase.
Kairos does however pick his spells.

Note that if he picks any spells from a lore which he has chosen to be at -2 to cast, then he also suffers that penalty as well while the banner is in effect.

Sounds like your opponent may be misinterpreting some rules, or he's just been very lucky so far.

JJMUS
13-09-2009, 00:36
Which deamon dosent need to cast a spell ?use power dice?its has 2 heads--that kairos?

JJMUS
13-09-2009, 00:38
and he picked 2 spells from each of the 8 lores of magic--and this wasnt even the greater deamon flying around killing everything.

stripsteak
13-09-2009, 01:09
the blue scribes don't use powerdice all their spells are cast as bound spells.

thats too many spells for kairos. he should only know 14 total including his tzeentch spells. only 8 spells from the book lores total, not possible to get two from each lore. he is also bound to only 4 lores per magic phase depending on which head is casting.

JJMUS
13-09-2009, 01:12
ok one of those was in there then -i dont use deamons or ever played them before,so im unsure about what he fielded.i know he had alot of power dice more then 8.

eyescrossed
13-09-2009, 02:47
Demand to see his list next time you play him, and read the Daemons (yes, Daemons) army book.

gaiaterra
13-09-2009, 11:06
Just a heads up on his magic banner. It does not affect power of darkness if he chooses the Dark Lore as the banners target. In reality the minus two tow cast should not be a problem for a dark elf, life is cheap so just use the dagger on a 20+ spearman unit to power up your casting roles.

Take down the horrors quickly with massed fire from rxb and rbt.

I would drop you master and supreme sorceress and take Malekith on a Cold One

To take on/shutdown his deamon's magic phase I would suggest using the ring of Hotek. Have it so it's range covers every part of you infantry partially and have your sorceress on foot at the edge of the far units so they get the anti magic protecton by being in the unit and dont suffer the miscast on any double downside when casting themselves.

Lijacote
13-09-2009, 11:09
welcome to the wonderful world of unbalanced armies. the reason deamon magic seems stronger than other armies magic is because it is.

That looks suspiciously much like a circular argument.