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The Guy
12-09-2009, 22:27
One of the main criticisms I've heard for C'tan is that they have been plugged into pretty much every open ended piece of plot. Could anyone tell me what the C'tan have supposedly done that people don't agree with?

grissom2006
12-09-2009, 22:47
Beisdes want to eat every living thing in the galaxy after the necrons had somehow managed to stop them from eating stars by tempting them with flesh.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/C%27tan

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron

Tyruin son of Ages
12-09-2009, 23:18
What did the C'tan do...
What didnt they do?!
Theyre background is incredibly over the top, the lexiacanium sources Grisson mentioned are about the best source of the C'tan on the net, so you should be good with them.
Extremely quick overview of the four known c'tan:

1)The deciever (some heretics think hees Cegorach or the laughing god) went about being very decieving and all that, put the necrons in there current predicament, and was the first to sleep when the enslaver plague took hold and the first to awake. Possibly brought Abbadon to his daemon blade, but is speculation...
2) The nightbringer, basically the epitome of fear, and being that apparently the one put the fear of death into the mortal races (except krork or orks now) extremely powerful, most powerful c'tan currently abounding, was released in around M39 Also most parasitic of the C'tan.
3) The void dragon, is currently inside the maze of some spooky name on mars, and is commonly worshipped as the machine god. The emperor apparently fought ut, and trapped it in its maze and some say to purposely spawn a cult that would supply his great crusade some time later. Has a servant every generation, only being who he can speak to directly. This person can fix machines with thought and other adeptus mechanicus jive.
4) The outsider, deffently mad, totally insane. Its not currently known were he is, but its believed he was trapped in some form of other dimension or possibly 'Vahls sphere' (possibly incorrect spelling there) Has some traits with the nightbringer, and generally the personifcation of madness.

There were also other c'tan but they didnt do much or died quickly apparently.
Hopes this helps.
Tyruin out.

Lexington
13-09-2009, 00:44
The C'Tan have been, I think somewhat unfairly, maligned for being The Root Cause of Everything in 40K. They've become the aggressors in the Eldar's War in Heaven, the cause of the Cadian Gate, and even suggested to be the Hive Mind. Basically, people see them as shoehorned into background that existed before them. Personally, I've always liked the idea of these horrible, Lovecraftian creatures being behind several of the 40K universe's bigger meta-plot events, and only find it occasionally (the aforementioned Tyranid bit, for example) annoying.

Gdolkin
13-09-2009, 00:49
Some would say that the C'tan aren't really very Lovecraftian, what with being so interested in deliberately meddling with and manipulating humans as opposed to being completely indifferent and unaware of humans, but darkly influential anyway just cos they're so head-****ingly old and powerful.. hmm that wasn't very well put :(
The Deceiver enjoys tricking humans and pulling their strings, even to the extent of actually physically disguising himself as one.
Cthulu is too OMGWTF scary to even care about humans, he just lays dead-dreaming in his house at R'lyeh on the bottom of the sea and still his sheer existence and the power of his dreams invades the dreams of humanity, drives them insane and causes some to worship him.
Poseidal pointed this out somewhere on Warseer, and he's right. Kinda.

canucklhead
13-09-2009, 02:27
The big things that **** people off is the fact that as soon as the C'tan showed up as a piece of fluff, the conspiracy theory machine started up.

The C'tan are responsable for the Ad Mech?
The C'tan are why the Tau went from hunter gatherers to equals with 40k in less than 10k years?
The C'tan prompted the creation of both the Eldar and the Orks by their ancient enemies, the old ones?

And the never ending list goes on.

Issanhaven
13-09-2009, 02:43
Cthulu is too OMGWTF scary to even care about humans, he just lays dead-dreaming in his house at R'lyeh on the bottom of the sea and still his sheer existence and the power of his dreams invades the dreams of humanity, drives them insane and causes some to worship him.



Sounds kinda like the miniscule amount of information we have on the Outsider though, doesn't it?

Lexington
13-09-2009, 02:55
The Deceiver enjoys tricking humans and pulling their strings, even to the extent of actually physically disguising himself as one.
Cthulu is too OMGWTF scary to even care about humans, he just lays dead-dreaming in his house at R'lyeh on the bottom of the sea and still his sheer existence and the power of his dreams invades the dreams of humanity, drives them insane and causes some to worship him.
Lovecraft had a very large body of non-Cthulhu work, y'know. ;)

Rat Catcher
13-09-2009, 05:54
What didn't the C'tan do?

They even influenced you to make this post. :eek:

Lothlanathorian
13-09-2009, 07:56
What didn't the C'tan do?

They even influenced you to make this post. :eek:

Q-F-mother-frelling-T

Originally, the C'tan were some Xeno race that got it's only mention with the Callidus Assassin and her C'tan phase sword. They were a technologically advanced race that the Imperium traded with, but they were so small that they didn't warrant any mention beyond this.

Then the Necrons got their Codex and the C'tan were then thrown into their background, turned into energy-beings that fed on stars and shoehorned into every piece of 40K background that had any kind of wiggle room and they used large, very heavy hammers to place this into the parts that had none.

grissom2006
13-09-2009, 08:10
Originally, the C'tan were some Xeno race that got it's only mention with the Callidus Assassin and her C'tan phase sword. They were a technologically advanced race that the Imperium traded with, but they were so small that they didn't warrant any mention beyond this.

Then the Necrons got their Codex and the C'tan were then thrown into their background, turned into energy-beings that fed on stars and shoehorned into every piece of 40K background that had any kind of wiggle room and they used large, very heavy hammers to place this into the parts that had none.

I smell The Deciever's hand in this would of put it past him to of claimed of we're a small race blah blah blah and completely mislead the Imperium.

Lothlanathorian
13-09-2009, 09:31
I smell The Deciever's hand in this would of put it past him to of claimed of we're a small race blah blah blah and completely mislead the Imperium.

lol:p

See, at least then GW would have addressed it lol

Nezmith
13-09-2009, 10:36
The C'tan are behind the fact that the Fast Food Restaurant gets your order wrong every other time you visit the 'drive thru.'

The C'tan caused every oil leak your car has ever had.

The C'tan sneak into your house, unscrew your light bulbs, shake them violently, and then screw them back in, while you are out.

The C'tan always buy the last blister pack of a miniature in the store, and never use it.

The C'tan set the food on the shelves that expires within the next two days.

The C'tan encourage gaming companies to push back release dates in favor of more development.

The C'tan popularized asking the question, "Did you see that!?!" while watching a movie at the theater.

The C'tan take chip bags off the shelf and crumple them, before placing them back.

The C'tan make VS threads.

Ordo Hydra
13-09-2009, 10:48
I personally don't have a problem with the stuff mentioned on the C'tan so far so long as they don't make them over the top like suddenly saying that they were responsible for the Horus Heresy and created the Chaos Gods or made the Tyranids etc.

Anyway heres what they did do:
*They battled the Old Ones long ago only to enter into a deep sleep after the Enslaver Plague
*They also battled the Eldar during the War in Heaven with the Nightbringer fighting Kaela Mensha Khaine and bringing about mortality to the Eldar race in that battle (was in a WD issue when the C'tans were introduced the way they are currently are and is mentioned in the Dawn of War book Ascension)
*The Talismans of Vaul aka the Blackstone Fortresses were created with the intention of defeating the Void Dragon (some early WD issue when the C'tan were fleshed out the way they are now)
*Rumoured to be responsible for cultivating the Pariah gene amongst humanity (hinted due to the use of Pariahs in the Necrons and I believe its mentioned somewhere that they attacked an Imperium temple containing Pariahs)
*Hinted that the Cadian Pylons were made by them as part of their Great Ward project designed to seal the Warp from the material world (can't remember where I heard this though I think its true)
*Strongled implied to be responsible for the rise of the Adeptus Mechanicus. (see the novel Mechanicum)

Heres what I have seen some speculated about and disagree on:
*They made the Tau (Disagree as Xenology hints that the Eldar were involved here)
*They made the Tyranids (Again disagree, nothing suggests that they would make them or the Hive Mind)

Note: I am kind of lumping the C'tan with the Necrons here but both worked together so...

The Judge
13-09-2009, 11:04
This thread is the first place I have ever heard the suggestion that they made the Tau. All evidence points to Eldar or a last remnant of the Old Ones.

Gdolkin
13-09-2009, 11:15
Lovecraft had a very large body of non-Cthulhu work, y'know. ;)
A lot of which wasn't written by him, and a lot of which doesnt involve any kind of 'Old One' type-entities, do you mean the C'tan are Lovecraftian in a sense other than 'involves ancient powerful godlike beings who destroy men's minds and sanity just by existing, and even more so if you discover or meet them, etc.'? But I take your point. I guess the Deceiver is more comparable to Nyarlahotep..
Poseidal, come and help me explain this better..

aeoglas
13-09-2009, 12:31
The C'tan are anti-warp. Cegorah came from the warp, The deciever is not Cegorah. Hands down to you.

Hmm... didn't one of the main C'tan, when he was killed by khaine, fragment into a million pieces, one of which entered khaine, creating the aspect of the dark reapers. So the Y'gnir (as the eldar call them) are responsible for the death of thousands of AS 3+ Meq's:p

In the end, the Y'gnir created the aspect that would kill the most of their warriors... except the howling banshees.

djinn8
13-09-2009, 13:18
I guess the Deceiver is more comparable to Nyarlahotep..
Poseidal, come and help me explain this better..

Nyarlahotep has several manifestations in the Cthulhu mythos, but one in paticular resembles the Deceiver much more than any other - this one being called The King in Yellow. This version was not in fact not written by Lovecraft himself however, it was written by James Blish who's story would later inspire Lovecraft to write the short story Watcher in the Dark which featured Nyarlahotep, although he wouldn't be named this untill a later date and even then only by fan speculation. But anyway...

The story of More Light is about a man reading a play called the King in Yellow, which is in turn a story about the nation of Hastur who are stuck in an eternal war with the nation of Alar. Because the war has in such a stalemate for so long, Hastur has fallen into a kind of extended period of depression and degredation. The people of Hastur know through prophecy that their state of affairs will change on the day they recieve something called the yellow sign from a city in the stars called Carcosa. The sign is delivered by a ghost called Yhtill to the ruler of Hastur, but upon recieving it Yhtill desolves and a godlike being called the King in Yellow appears. The sight of him causes the people of Hastur to panic and they are told by the King in Yellow that they can escape their doom by wearing palid masks. They put the masks on and realise their mistake as they become unable to take them off again. The people despare as they realise they are no longer human and The King says this to the people of Hastur:

"Hastur, you have acceded to, and wore the Palid Mask. That is the price. Henceforth, all in Hastur shall wear the Mask, and by this sign be known. And war between the masked men and the naked shall be perpetual and bloody, until I come again...or fail to come."

I don't think its to hard to see the connections between this story and the Necron background. The people of Hastur being the Necrontyr. The people of Alar being the Old Ones. The persona of Yhtil being the lies of the Deciever and the King in Yellow his true self. The Palid Mask and the overall story arch is the undeath and enslavement that came with the Necrontyr's ascention into the Necron robotic bodies.

Tyruin son of Ages
13-09-2009, 15:52
Nyarlahotep has several manifestations in the Cthulhu mythos, but one in paticular resembles the Deceiver much more than any other - this one being called The King in Yellow. This version was not in fact not written by Lovecraft himself however, it was written by James Blish who's story would later inspire Lovecraft to write the short story Watcher in the Dark which featured Nyarlahotep, although he wouldn't be named this untill a later date and even then only by fan speculation. But anyway...

The story of More Light is about a man reading a play called the King in Yellow, which is in turn a story about the nation of Hastur who are stuck in an eternal war with the nation of Alar. Because the war has in such a stalemate for so long, Hastur has fallen into a kind of extended period of depression and degredation. The people of Alar know through prophecy that their state of affairs will change on the day they recieve something called the yellow sign from a city in the stars called Carcosa. The sign is delivered by a ghost called Yhtill to the ruler of Hastur, but upon recieving it Yhtill desolves and a godlike being called the King in Yellow appears. The sight of him causes the people of Hastur to panic and they are told by the King in Yellow that they can escape their doom by wearing palid masks. They put the masks on and realise their mistake as they become unable to take them off again. The people despare as they realise they are no longer huma and The King says this to the people of Hastur:

"Hastur, you have acceded to, and wore the Palid Mask. That is the price. Henceforth, all in Hastur shall wear the Mask, and by this sign be known. And war between the masked men and the naked shall be perpetual and bloody, until I come again...or fail to come."

I don't think its to hard to see the connections between this story and the Necron background. The people of Hastur being the Necrontyr. The people of Alar being the Old Ones. The persona of Yhtil being the lies of the Deciever and the King in Yellow his true self. The Palid Mask and the overall story arch is the undeath and enslavement that came with the Necrontyr's assention into the Necron robotic bodies.

Fantastic explanation!
You now your stuff!
Tyruin out.