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Skraal2099
13-09-2009, 19:05
I am starting fantasy and I want to know how bad the "codex creep" actually is. I am starting beasts of chaos. I know it is a so so book, but I love it anyway. Anyway, what are your opinions on the current balance in warhammer fantasy?

Avian
13-09-2009, 19:09
Results of a recent survey I did on the power levels of the various armies:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216896

Skraal2099
13-09-2009, 19:20
That is an interesting thread to read, and while I appreciate you linking it to me, it wasn't really what I wanted. I wanted to see about the balance. I wanted to know if the game relies more on skill or army choice and if certain armies could beat others regardless of skill. Sorry if my original post was misleading.

Condottiere
13-09-2009, 19:28
There are no auto-wins, just some armies have an easier time achieving victory.

Selection, deployment, movement and luck still play some part in the outcome.

Fraggzy
13-09-2009, 19:30
"if the game relies more on skill or army choice"

It definetly relies more on skill. Even with a broken army, if your opponent is good and you suck, you will ultimately lose

Sylass
13-09-2009, 19:42
Better wait for the new Beasts book before starting the army, it's rumoured to be out spring next year...

At the moment BoC are one of the worst armies out there cause they no longer have access to a lot of troop choices (before you were able to include deamons and mortals) and the old raiders special rule of the herds currently makes it impossible to gain rank bonus in close combat.

Darth Alec
13-09-2009, 19:43
Of course, if your gaming group has any heart, they'd let you rank up five like you need to.

Condottiere
13-09-2009, 19:54
Ours does - still weak.

stonehorse
13-09-2009, 19:56
Beasts of Chaos aren't that bad, they are the kings of Chariot spamming. Plus their chariots get the mark of chaos undivided for free.

Or in 2,000pts a Minotaur force is a nasty thing to face off against.

PeG
13-09-2009, 20:07
at 2k beasts are ok although not likely to win a lot against the top three lists if your opponents power play. On the other hand this goes for a lot of other armies as well. I think they are a fun and different army to play against.

Witchblade
13-09-2009, 20:41
Play with comp restrictions or a tier list (e.g. beasts may use 2500 points, while bretonnia may use 2250 points and dark elves may use only 2000 points) and it's a lot nicer for BoC to play.

There are some maxed out lists with great potential for Beasts.

Beasts will probably get updated next spring, as mentioned.

Skraal2099
13-09-2009, 20:52
Thank you for your responses, but I didn't mean for this thread to be about the power level of the beasts of chaos. I just wanted to know how balanced the game was. I only said what race I would play so that I wouldn't be asked later in the thread.

Baerdog7
13-09-2009, 20:54
At the moment BoC are one of the worst armies out there cause they no longer have access to a lot of troop choices (before you were able to include deamons and mortals) and the old raiders special rule of the herds currently makes it impossible to gain rank bonus in close combat.

Your comment about it being "impossible to gain rank bonus in close combat" for Raiders units is patently false. The rule on page 18 of the Beasts of Chaos army books states that "When charging or charged, if the unit would normally form up less than four models wide, then it forms up four models wide (space permitting)." If the unit is able to get more than four models into combat, it is perfectly able to do so. The diagrams on page 19 illustrate this. All the FAQ did was reinforce the fact that units with Raiders don't form up five wide if they can't get that many models in combat.

Granted, Beasts are still one of the weaker armies right now due to the age of their book and them being unable to take Mortals or Daemons choices anymore. Frankly, I'm fine with that choice and can't wait until the new army book comes out and I am able to field a competitive all-beast list. I still think they are a very neat army and definitely recommend them to the OP, especially if he is willing to wait for the new rule book (mostly due to there being choices in the current book that are rumored to be eliminated/replaced in the new book and I wouldn't recommend collecting a new army only to find out that unit of dragon ogres is no longer in the new book).

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
13-09-2009, 21:00
Yes, it's pretty balanced. Who are you going to be playing against, your friends at home or random strangers in a gaming store? Since I only play with friends at home, all of our games are fun and our lists are fluffy and balanced.

Ultimate Life Form
13-09-2009, 21:03
What exactly do you define as 'balance'?

You barge in here complaining about 'codex creep' (which obviously doesn't have anything to do with Fantasy, so maybe I misread your intention).

When you're told about how the armies are balanced against each other, you say that's not what you want. What you want is some obscure 'balance', but you never specify what that's supposed to be. If it isn't Army Book balance, then what else could it be? Yes, a good player with a weak army will wipe the floor with a bad player with a strong army, but that's been mentioned before and should be self-evident. In all honesty I don't know what else remains to be said in this thread.

Angry Lawyer
13-09-2009, 21:05
BoC are a brilliant list because, if you lose, it's the list's fault, but if you win, it's because you're the best player ever.

-Angry Lawyer

Skraal2099
13-09-2009, 21:11
What exactly do you define as 'balance'?

You barge in here complaining about 'codex creep' (which obviously doesn't have anything to do with Fantasy, so maybe I misread your intention).

When you're told about how the armies are balanced against each other, you say that's not what you want. What you want is some obscure 'balance', but you never specify what that's supposed to be. If it isn't Army Book balance, then what else could it be? Yes, a good player with a weak army will wipe the floor with a bad player with a strong army, but that's been mentioned before and should be self-evident. In all honesty I don't know what else remains to be said in this thread.


No I haven't. I have heard people complaining about it on the forums and wanted to see if it was true. Sorry if I sounded like that.

Lord Dan
13-09-2009, 21:18
40K is way more corruptable than fantasy, if that was your question.

Skraal2099
13-09-2009, 21:33
Ok. Thank you everyone. The mods can close the thread now. It's starting to get off topic.

Trigger36
13-09-2009, 22:04
Welcome to the internet :rolleyes:

ashc
13-09-2009, 22:59
You can close your own threads if you wish using the 'thread tools' button at the top of the thread. :)

Skraal2099
13-09-2009, 23:32
Ok, thanks.