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themandudeperson
14-09-2009, 00:47
Ok, here's the scenario. A unit of Dark Elf Executioners charge a block of Saurus Warriors with a champion and a Scar-Veteran Battle Standard Bearer. The attacks bowl the first two ranks, but no attacks are allocated to the unit champion or hero.
Now, do either the champion or hero get to contribute attacks next round?

Nurgling Chieftain
14-09-2009, 01:19
The unit champion and the hero get to attack as normal; kills against rank-and-file won't affect the hero, and only affect the champion if the unit is wiped out.

themandudeperson
14-09-2009, 02:36
That's what I thought, but we can't find in the rule book where it indicates whether they can or can not.. You wouldn't happen to have a page number to back this ruling up, would you? It would be greatly appreciated.

Nurgling Chieftain
14-09-2009, 02:49
Well, they're in combat and in base contact, and there's no rule preventing them from attacking, so they attack. You might cite the last sentence of the third paragraph under "Champions" on the right-hand column of page 81; that details the only exception, wherein the entire unit is wiped out and the champion dies with it.

nieto666
19-09-2009, 05:13
Thats a bit vague we need to know for sure, this is the first time this has happened to us

PeG
19-09-2009, 07:55
Then look at it the other way around. Why would he not be able to attack? He is in base to base contact, he has not been killed by the enemies and it it his turn to strike. I cant see any rule that would possibly prevent him from attacking.

Nurgling Chieftain
19-09-2009, 09:06
Thats a bit vague we need to know for sure...You ask for a rule that doesn't exist. All we can do is cite the rules that do exist.

nieto666
19-09-2009, 16:58
Well essentially he was in the first rank, until the first two got totally wiped out then he would, in theory at least, be in the third rank because the first two ranks are all dead. Now if this is the case and they can still attack, because they would be in the "third" rank after the first two were wiped, then why cant the third rank attack? Kinda of a odd loop hole if you ask me.

Ultimate Life Form
19-09-2009, 17:07
Champions and Characters are always in the first rank unless they refused a challenge or happen to be Skaven. No loophole to be found here; you're making something up.

knauden
19-09-2009, 17:27
Can a champion allways strike back? Even if the enemy slays all the models in the front rank?

narrativium
19-09-2009, 17:31
Well essentially he was in the first rank, until the first two got totally wiped out then he would, in theory at least, be in the third rank because the first two ranks are all dead. Now if this is the case and they can still attack, because they would be in the "third" rank after the first two were wiped, then why cant the third rank attack? Kinda of a odd loop hole if you ask me.

If the champion and hero are in the first rank and wasn't targeted, they're still in the first rank. The enemy has only killed rank and file troops.

The rank and file which move forward to fill the positions of rank and file who died, spent their combat round moving forward, stepping over bodies and maintaining formation (shouting battlecries, urging on their fellows, being in the mood for battle and keeping their spirits up - or if you prefer, maintaining static combat res). Hence they can't attack, regardless of their position within the unit, if they weren't in base-to-base (or similar, e.g. spears) at the start of the round.

knauden: if the champion was in the first rank and is one of those killed, then no. If he wasn't killed, either as a result of not being targeted or as a result of being the last casualty (the enemy causing enough wounds to kill all the rank and file plus him), then yes, as he's not dead.