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the_night_reaper
14-01-2006, 21:47
I played a game against a empire army with 2 units of 10 knights and my damon prince destroyed 2 of them!

here's what I used:
Daemon Prince: MoK, etherblade, soul hunger, might of khorne

I flew him over to the flank where the 2 knights units were closest to them. In my next turn I wasn't exactly on the flank so I had to charge the unit head on. In combat I hit with all my attacks (thanks to soul hunger) and wounded with all my attacks (wounding on 2+ isn't that hard!) killing 6 knights! With no attacks back at me I won the combat by 3 and I broke and ran them down. Same thing happened to the other unit except I only killed 5.

What do you guys think about this incredible knight killer? He doesn't allow armour saves so the knights don't get to use their 1/2+ armour save and he has 6 attacks! with S6 he can wound T4 knights like chaos knights on 2's!

Mad Makz
14-01-2006, 21:57
Congratulations, you have found the standard build for a Daemon Prince. :)

(Although most aren't Khornate, but Etherblade and Soul Hunger have been on pretty much every Daemon Prince I have come across)

Scythe
14-01-2006, 22:00
Unfortunately that Daemon Prince tends to be more expensive as the knights he is killing (unless the opponent uses very large units). Not to mention the problems he could get in running of with Frenzy, or when contacting the champion of the knights unit (and hence is challenged).

Neknoh
14-01-2006, 22:19
However, in a challenge aggainst a normal unit champ, 6 wounds without armoursaves still renders you +6 to your CR and the other Knights cannot attack back, so, it's the same still.

As for killing off points equallity, it is NOT required, what you want to achieve with hunting Knights is to severly punish your opponents tactic by removing his main/counter chargers.

And, as has been said, that build is the standard one, though Mark of Slaanesh with the one that turns his wardsave into a normal wardsave instead of the Might of Khorne.

But... using the MoK might be very nice when dealing with Chaos Knights of an opposing army, seeing as you then will still wound them on a 2+, despite them being T4.

And, if you're looking for another knight hunter for less points (though he takes up the same AMMOUNT of slots), the Shaggoth armed with a Greatweapon works nice

Stouty
14-01-2006, 22:22
Flying+frenzy...urrgh

Neknoh
14-01-2006, 22:25
It's not all too bad, you can charge anything you see, not the closest target, besides, he can always moonwalk for the first turn before getting into possition

Brother Edwin
14-01-2006, 22:54
CAV

SSS
RRRR
RRRR
RRRR
RRRR

S=skirmisher
R=ranked up unit.

If you know the rules you will realise this is a automatic lose for knights, they cant win whatsoever. They lose 100% of the time.

Cue the idiot who needs it explained......

Neknoh
14-01-2006, 23:22
Unless they use their superior move to simply get out of the way and draw the skirmishers to one side for another unit to flank the ranked unit the next time, or charge the skirmishers the next round and get an overrun/pursue into the flank of the ranked unit

Wintermute
15-01-2006, 08:30
CAV
Cue the idiot who needs it explained......

No.

Cue the Mod who says that comment is a potential flame.

Watch your language in future.

Wintermute

the_night_reaper
15-01-2006, 14:11
CAV

SSS
RRRR
RRRR
RRRR
RRRR

S=skirmisher
R=ranked up unit.

If you know the rules you will realise this is a automatic lose for knights, they cant win whatsoever. They lose 100% of the time.

Cue the idiot who needs it explained......

I have no clue what you're talking about. Mainly because I don't know where this fits into the original topic so I don't know what rule you're trying to show. If you or someone else could explain it that would make it easier for me and other who don't want to ask because people will think of them as idiots.

Also with the frenzy and flying normally a unit of fast cav or other fast unit will only be able to bait him for one turn because he's alot faster.

TeddyC
15-01-2006, 14:27
So what hes trying to say is...

The knights charge the skirmishers..... skirmishers either take the charge or flee.... either way... the knights get the charge on the ranked up unit...

Whats your point? (not night reaper.... they other guy)

Keller
15-01-2006, 14:45
I think the point he was trying to make is that you don't need a special knight-killing character, you can do it with normal units through tactics.

Grand Warlord
15-01-2006, 15:12
Well when i read the first line i was like ... woohoo! he killed 2 knights ...

Silly migraines ... sorry im a little ... drugged at the moment lol ((its all legal i promise))

But it is a nice daemon prince set up.

Brother Edwin
15-01-2006, 15:15
Unless they use their superior move to simply get out of the way and draw the skirmishers to one side for another unit to flank the ranked unit the next time,
What?

or charge the skirmishers the next round and get an overrun/pursue into the flank of the ranked unit

How will they get a overun into the ranked unit? They cant re-direct since the infantry were a viable target.


he knights charge the skirmishers..... skirmishers either take the charge or flee.... either way... the knights get the charge on the ranked up unit...

Whats your point? (not night reaper.... they other guy)

How does he get a charge on the ranked unit? You cant re-direct into another unit if it was a origional viable target.


I have no clue what you're talking about. Mainly because I don't know where this fits into the original topic so I don't know what rule you're trying to show. If you or someone else could explain it that would make it easier for me and other who don't want to ask because people will think of them as idiots.

If the cav charge the skirmishers they flee and the cav are charged by infantry or shot or whatever.

If the cav charge the infantry they can only fit one modal into combat thus lose because they cant use all there lances.

athamas
15-01-2006, 18:15
well in 99% of cases that wont work, the skirmisher would be the target, they are charged, and if they run, the infantry are now free to be charged... as in most cases the cavalry wont be able to get the charge on the infantry..

Brother Edwin
15-01-2006, 18:21
well in 99% of cases that wont work, the skirmisher would be the target, they are charged, and if they run, the infantry are now free to be charged... as in most cases the cavalry wont be able to get the charge on the infantry..

How are the calvery going to charge the infantry after the skirmishers flee?

The infantry were a viable target due to the fact the infantry player sets up the skirmishers so that one modal is revealed. Thus they cant re-direct into the infantry.

It works 100% of the time.

How can you not understand?

athamas
15-01-2006, 19:22
ok, on carefull examination of the rules... you are correct..

but i would be tempted to hit you for being such a git..

of couces if the fleeing unit fails to outrun the cavalry, its still destroyd, and this is the situation where you charge something else into the skirmishes, and work that out out first.. [and some very interesting happenings could arise from that!]

edit: although the skirmishers have to move around the troops they are infront of, and it would be possible for the nights to catch them, by charging after them anyway.. which could then result in you haveing a unit of knights on the flank of your nice big unit, which would be worse for you.. [esp. if the charger has a 20" charge range!]

Latro
15-01-2006, 20:23
That reminds me, I hope they change that rule about not re-directing a charge if you could charge it before ... it can lead to these very silly and ilogical situations.

By the way, I never mind ending up before a ranked-up infantry unit ... Chosen of Khorne will win anyway ;)


:cool:

Brother Edwin
15-01-2006, 21:28
ok, on carefull examination of the rules... you are correct..

but i would be tempted to hit you for being such a git..

of couces if the fleeing unit fails to outrun the cavalry, its still destroyd, and this is the situation where you charge something else into the skirmishes, and work that out out first.. [and some very interesting happenings could arise from that!]

edit: although the skirmishers have to move around the troops they are infront of, and it would be possible for the nights to catch them, by charging after them anyway.. which could then result in you haveing a unit of knights on the flank of your nice big unit, which would be worse for you.. [esp. if the charger has a 20" charge range!]

No.

You end up next to me. I turn around to face you. You turn to face me. I charge you.



By the way, I never mind ending up before a ranked-up infantry unit ... Chosen of Khorne will win anyway

Against khorn it is also a auto-win for me. They are frenzyd thus I draw them into a charge at a angle with a expendable unit then flank them with the ranked infantry. Or more likely kill them with shooting/magic at 45 points a modal plus whatever else thereve payed for.

Fortdeadlykick
15-01-2006, 21:51
What? How does that skirmisher thing work.

If they fail to catch the fleeing skirmishers, then charge is failed and they end up in front of the infantry, but what happens if the charge brings them into contact with the ranked infantry anyway?

Latro
15-01-2006, 22:04
Against khorn it is also a auto-win for me. They are frenzyd thus I draw them into a charge at a angle with a expendable unit then flank them with the ranked infantry. Or more likely kill them with shooting/magic at 45 points a modal plus whatever else thereve payed for.

You are ofcourse so very right ...

There is no way I could manage to use my numerous Warhound units, Marauder Horsemen, Furies or Big Flying Daemons to intervene in such a cunning plan of yours ... no way that I would ever suspect someone to use such a devious plan against me.

Woe is me! ... what am I supposed to do now?



All is lost ... :cries:

archonbrujah
16-01-2006, 00:03
I've got to ask, did the Empire player use any cannons? Or handgunners? I just don't see the point in making a hero expressly to take out Empire Knights. Especially when Khorne Knights should be able to take them regardless. Except my Reiksguard :)

Archonbrujah

Brother Edwin
16-01-2006, 08:12
What? How does that skirmisher thing work.

If they fail to catch the fleeing skirmishers, then charge is failed and they end up in front of the infantry, but what happens if the charge brings them into contact with the ranked infantry anyway?

It cannot. You may never go within a inch of a enemy modal unless you are chargeing it, which you are not.

Fortdeadlykick
16-01-2006, 11:43
Yeah. That's jammy.

Good luck to you.

MisterHeavy
16-01-2006, 19:42
Ok, so we'll assume that the skirmishers are positioned in such a way that heavy cav could, if they wanted, declare and complete a charge against either the infantry unit or the skirmishers.

How about if the heavy cav just moves up to within an inch of the skirmishers?

With the cav so close, you're unlikely to be able to reset your forced-clip trap. Cav units are typically wider than an infantry unit anyway, and would not have room to wheel while in so close.

Assuming the above, the skirmishers are free to charge the heavy cav, and get beaten and run down (causing cav to over-run into the infantry), or move out of the way. With the skirmishers out of the way, the infantry -might- be able to get out of the cavalry's charge arc, but they may be only 2" away from the heavy cav at this point, with litle room to wheel. Either way, the skirmishers and infantry are out of position now and vulnerable to other units.

Not that it's a bad plan overall, but the game of WH is so complex, that it's tough to ever say that any strategy grants you a "100%" win chance.

Neknoh
16-01-2006, 21:16
40 Gobblins with Full Command versus a Shaggoth of Chaos with Greatweapon. Disregarding the Terror and fear tests (isn't there some gobblin do-dah that does that allready?), the Gobblin unit WILL have a 100% win chance in the first round if the Shaggoth/gobblins charged headlong into the front of the other unit. :p

Just thought I should tell.

As for your idea Mister Heavy, I like it, though I still say that simply by moving your cav. to the flank, you force the opposing Skirmishers from the front of the unit, opening up the front whilst completely leaving the other flank utterly unprotected

Brother Edwin
16-01-2006, 22:58
Ok, so we'll assume that the skirmishers are positioned in such a way that heavy cav could, if they wanted, declare and complete a charge against either the infantry unit or the skirmishers.

How about if the heavy cav just moves up to within an inch of the skirmishers?

With the cav so close, you're unlikely to be able to reset your forced-clip trap. Cav units are typically wider than an infantry unit anyway, and would not have room to wheel while in so close.

Assuming the above, the skirmishers are free to charge the heavy cav, and get beaten and run down (causing cav to over-run into the infantry), or move out of the way. With the skirmishers out of the way, the infantry -might- be able to get out of the cavalry's charge arc, but they may be only 2" away from the heavy cav at this point, with litle room to wheel. Either way, the skirmishers and infantry are out of position now and vulnerable to other units.

Not that it's a bad plan overall, but the game of WH is so complex, that it's tough to ever say that any strategy grants you a "100%" win chance.

A good point, but it is still inconveneancing the cav and buying the infantry another turn.