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thechosenone
14-09-2009, 02:18
Just started Lizard men. I have a lot of things to begin with. Lots of saurus (about 40 warriors), some skinks, a carnasaur, slann and some skink priests. They sort of fell into my lap so to speak.

I'm very familiar with the codex but i've never played against them or with them. Now i need to make a full army. I fully intend on buying lots more stuff but i need insight from more experienced players on what works, what's the typical build out there, what's just bad form to play, anything broken... basically if you know lizard men tell me the way it is ok.

Troah
14-09-2009, 03:24
Don't make the mistake I did and forget to add Temple Guard units in your army to protect your two Slann. You feel really really dumb.

Ri-xthoal Lord of Lustira
14-09-2009, 03:28
A stegadon army is nice. Most poeple have EotG and slann build ar,my as well.

Ultimate Life Form
14-09-2009, 06:19
Stegadons are the answer. Better yet an Engine of the Gods. These are so devastating! I'd never leave home without one. Stegadons are mandatory.


These are more optional:
For more tactical applications, maybe a few Terradons. Are nice to give the enemy some trouble, but die the instant they enter battle or are being shot. Kroxigors, in all honesty I think now that they're only S6 and Stegs are special and by far the better choice, there's not much use for them anymore, but they're still a bit cheaper and have lots of attacks. Maybe you like them. Scouting Chameleons can really annoy the enemy but more than 5 are usually not needed (not that they're bad, but they eat points like no one's business and die just as easily as normal Skinks).

Razordon/Salamander can be devastating in the right hands, but I had no luck with them under the new rules. Their usefulness depends on your opponent which makes them unique in the Lizard book and therefore I think they're not as good as the other stuff. I advise testing them first before investing in big units.

Bloodless
14-09-2009, 09:22
If you like to be shooty, i have always been a fan of the salamanders or even the new razerdons. The can make quick work of all those pesky little skirmisher squads.:evilgrin:

Onisuzume
14-09-2009, 10:25
Yeah, the sallies can be very nice.
In my last battle a single sally fried a trio of DE Cold One Knights (before they charged my poor sally to death).
And I'd love to add some more to my army.
Only problem is that I can't find any of the old 5th edition sallies anymore.

One problem with the Carnosaur and Slann is that you can't have both in the army unless you play at 3000 points or more (not adviced to go that big on your first few battles, btw).

I've heard some good results from the Cold One Cavalry. Appearantly they're almost as good as chaos knights. Don't worry about the Stupidity tests, btw. That Cold-Blooded Ld of 8 is almost as good as a warm-blooded Ld of 10.
So yeah, sauri are that reliable.
Too bad our cold one models suck...

If you're not sure yet what for army you'd like to run, considder taking a variety of different units and see which ones you like.

Personally, I don't really like skinks that much (they're still reliable though, almost warm-blooded Ld of 8), so instead I run multiple blocks of saurus warriors, backed up by a couple of sallies. I don't have much in the magic phase though.

If you have more questions, then feel free to visit: The Spawning Pool (http://s7.invisionfree.com/garoq_gar/index.php).

thechosenone
14-09-2009, 14:37
thanks folks. So far i can say i do like the idea of skinks with their poisoned weapons. Blow guns seem like a good idea. Engone of the gods seems like a real good idea. My dream would be three steggedons one for the war chief with steg war spear and two Engines. I prefer heavy magick actually.

Terradons seem really fragile and are somewhat expensive in points and cash. Do you folks tend toward Slann as lord or Oldblood.

I agree that Kroxigors seem like a bit of a waste but they are pretty sweet looking. I don't think i'd ever pay the points for the Kroxigor ancient though.

Razordons or Salamanders? Or neither?

But yes, any suggestions folks want to give are helpful.

Ri-xthoal Lord of Lustira
14-09-2009, 15:00
If you want hitting power then CoC is the answer. Try this combo; oldblood on carnosaur in a units of Coc with a magic banner (sun standard of Chotec). This combo is effective againest any shooting units.

gorenut
14-09-2009, 15:52
thanks folks. So far i can say i do like the idea of skinks with their poisoned weapons. Blow guns seem like a good idea. Engone of the gods seems like a real good idea. My dream would be three steggedons one for the war chief with steg war spear and two Engines. I prefer heavy magick actually.


Razordons or Salamanders? Or neither?



Be careful with taking too many Stegadons. Your opponents may get bored playing against you or call you beardy/cheesy for taking such a list.

I think Salamanders are overall more versatile. Razordons seem even more specialized than Salamanders.. so if you were to go with just one, Salamander for sure.

Troah
14-09-2009, 15:57
Stegadons are the answer. Better yet an Engine of the Gods. These are so devastating! I'd never leave home without one. Stegadons are mandatory.



I had to stop bringing Stegadons in my battles. Every time I fought with them cannons or Bolt Throwers killed them in 1 or 2 turns even before they could really do anything.

N810
14-09-2009, 16:10
yea as lizardmen you realy need to take cover when facing a lot of shooting,
especialy your large targets, wait untill theit shooting is occupied or dead before,
bringing out your stegies. ;)

Troah
14-09-2009, 16:24
yea as lizardmen you realy need to take cover when facing a lot of shooting,
especialy your large targets, wait untill theit shooting is occupied or dead before,
bringing out your stegies. ;)

That's the thing, They always put their ranged stuff on hills and crowd around them so I can never kill the things. And if I hide my Stegadon and bring him out later when the cannons and everything are shooting at something else, their attention instantly goes back to the Stegadon.

gorenut
14-09-2009, 16:26
That's the thing, They always put their ranged stuff on hills and crowd around them so I can never kill the things. And if I hide my Stegadon and bring him out later when the cannons and everything are shooting at something else, their attention instantly goes back to the Stegadon.

Well, the flipside to this.. it means all their shooting is focused on a model that is generally more durable to shooting than the rest of your army. It allows other things to get into position unscathed. I think its also a general consensus that the Stegadon is fairly priced.. so its not like you're losing an overpriced model either.

Ultimate Life Form
14-09-2009, 16:27
Comet of Cassandora...

(but yeah, everyone accuses us of cheesiness whenever a single Steg shows up on the battlefield, but for Empire it's okay to park 5 cannons on the hill!:mad:)

N810
14-09-2009, 16:32
That's the thing, They always put their ranged stuff on hills and crowd around them so I can never kill the things. And if I hide my Stegadon and bring him out later when the cannons and everything are shooting at something else, their attention instantly goes back to the Stegadon.

Just curious ... have you tried using terradons ?

also when facing shooty armies terrain placement is very important. ;)

Troah
14-09-2009, 16:39
Well, the flipside to this.. it means all their shooting is focused on a model that is generally more durable to shooting than the rest of your army. It allows other things to get into position unscathed. I think its also a general consensus that the Stegadon is fairly priced.. so its not like you're losing an overpriced model either.

Lol...Doesn't help when two bolt throwers commonly kill a Stegadon per turn even with all the 5+ ward and the rolling to see what it hits and how many wounds it will do.


Just curious ... have you tried using terradons ?

also when facing shooty armies terrain placement is very important. ;)

Yes, I also use Tiktaq'to a few times and try coming in from a side but it never seems to help.

N810
14-09-2009, 16:42
Man Exactly how much fire power are you usualy facing ???

Troah
14-09-2009, 16:45
Man Exactly how much fire power are you usualy facing ???

Ummmm...Normally 4-6 cannons, bolt throwers, and other types of ranged. Then on top of that half the people I play just sit in their deployment zone waiting for me to come to them. -.-

N810
14-09-2009, 17:09
Ummmm...Normally 4-6 cannons, bolt throwers, and other types of ranged. Then on top of that half the people I play just sit in their deployment zone waiting for me to come to them. -.-

No wonder you are haveing problems against that sort of cheese...

Perhaps you should adopt a similar stategy,
just camp out your slan, and tecko-eko (sp?)
and a couple of skink priest and just camp out
behind a hill or forest and drop commets and
thunder/lightning bolts on him. forceing him
to come to you for a change. :p

Troah
14-09-2009, 17:19
No wonder you are haveing problems against that sort of cheese...

Perhaps you should adopt a similar stategy,
just camp out your slan, and tecko-eko (sp?)
and a couple of skink priest and just camp out
behind a hill or forest and drop commets and
thunder/lightning bolts on him. forceing him
to come to you for a change. :p

Lol oh I tried, I tried. The first time I did it, my Slann miscasted and a mage priest miscasted once in the same turn, skink priest blew up and the Slann took two wounds because he miscasted again somehow the next turn. How the hell that happens I have no clue but I took the hint from the dice gods and stopped trying to camp. So I've been trying to think of a more reliable strat.

Ultimate Life Form
14-09-2009, 17:20
No wonder you are haveing problems against that sort of cheese...

Perhaps you should adopt a similar stategy,
just camp out your slan, and tecko-eko (sp?)
and a couple of skink priest and just camp out
behind a hill or forest and drop commets and
thunder/lightning bolts on him. forceing him
to come to you for a change. :p

Hmmmm... Nice!:evilgrin:

N810
14-09-2009, 17:22
Maybe something basic ...
like lots of saurus screened by skinks ?

They can't all die before reaching combat...?

Ultimate Life Form
14-09-2009, 17:25
What about Engine of the Gods and Portent of Warding? that 4+ Save must be worth something. It's a gamble, but the Steg should survive at least one hit, and there's the possibility of him misfiring as well. How do cannon shots affect the crew anyway?

N810
14-09-2009, 17:27
What about Engine of the Gods and Portent of Warding? that 4+ Save must be worth something. It's a gamble, but the Steg should survive at least one hit, and there's the possibility of him misfiring as well. How do cannon shots affect the crew anyway?

I believe they are distrubited like normal shooting...
see the D6 chart under the steg entry.

Troah
14-09-2009, 17:54
Maybe something basic ...
like lots of saurus screened by skinks ?

They can't all die before reaching combat...?

:) You'd think they wouldn't, but they do.


What about Engine of the Gods and Portent of Warding? that 4+ Save must be worth something. It's a gamble, but the Steg should survive at least one hit, and there's the possibility of him misfiring as well. How do cannon shots affect the crew anyway?

It's a 5+ ward save, but it never helps. Hits from a great cannon normally always roll 6's for how many wounds so that's an insta-kill. A bolt thrower normally does 2-3 wounds, so they just take one or two more and then kill the Stegadon. 1-4 is beast, 5-6 is crew (5 crew, 6 hero is one is present)

Lijacote
14-09-2009, 17:59
:) You'd think they wouldn't, but they do.



It's a 5+ ward save, but it never helps. Hits from a great cannon normally always roll 6's for how many wounds so that's an insta-kill. A bolt thrower normally does 2-3 wounds, so they just take one or two more and then kill the Stegadon. 1-4 is beast, 5-6 is crew (5 crew, 6 hero is one is present)

A bolter on average does 2 wounds, when it does get to wound.
A hit from a great cannon on average does 3-4 wounds, when it gets to wound.
A 5+ ward save on average reduces suffered wounds by 33% or so.
A 5+ ward stegadon should easily survive a turn or two.

N810
14-09-2009, 17:59
Hey when you ran Tiktaq'to did you have him joined in a big unit of terradons and posibly a chief or all by his lonesome ?

Troah
14-09-2009, 18:08
Hey when you ran Tiktaq'to did you have him joined in a big unit of terradons and posibly a chief or all by his lonesome ?

I ran him with 5 other Terradons, not chief because I don't think characters can start off in the unit if the unit is popping out from a table side?



A bolter on average does 2 wounds, when it does get to wound.
A hit from a great cannon on average does 3-4 wounds, when it gets to wound.
A 5+ ward save on average reduces suffered wounds by 33% or so.
A 5+ ward stegadon should easily survive a turn or two.

In theory it makes sense, too bad it doesn't seem to EVER happen.

RED9335
14-09-2009, 18:11
god i feel you on the getting shot and miscasting, My slanns name is miscasticles in our campaign. The orc and gobbo guy has four damn bolt throwers and the high elf guy two, the dwarf guy more arty than you can shake a stick at as well, I just pretend like my Lizards are re enacting the last samurai scene and go for it, also the reason i quit playing brets too.

N810
14-09-2009, 18:32
Have you tried a skirmishing skink horde, posibly with some salamanders/razordons ?
and probaly some kroxogor and cav too.

RED9335
14-09-2009, 18:37
I usually take three razardons in a pack and they do work out well for me, and ive upped my skink skirmishers to 2 units of ten to screen my saurus and temple guard blocks, I'm not worried about the orc guy or his 2 units of black orcs against my spear, temple guard units but those damn dwarves are a rock in close combat and im afraid to tackle them with anything but saurus, the terradons worked well til they found out how easy it was to shoot them dead, ive honestly stopped taking the stegs against them gonna flood them with skinks tonight ill let you guys know how that works out

Troah
14-09-2009, 18:37
Have you tried a skirmishing skink horde, posibly with some salamanders/razordons ?
and probaly some kroxogor and cav too.

I've tried a small skrim skank horde. Didn't work out to well, they liked to panic a lot. Still never tried the Kroxigors, not sure if I'll like them. Tried using some cavalry, even tried going as much cavalry as possible and taking Kroq-Gar to get a core cavalry unit. I was horribly out numbered.

Condottiere
14-09-2009, 18:41
I've tried a small skrim skank horde. Didn't work out to well, they liked to panic a lot. Still never tried the Kroxigors, not sure if I'll like them. Tried using some cavalry, even tried going as much cavalry as possible and taking Kroq-Gar to get a core cavalry unit. I was horribly out numbered.You failed to include Puff Daddy to lead them.

RED9335
14-09-2009, 18:42
You failed to include Puff Daddy to lead them.

my god thats the funniest thing i've heard all month, he could have had kanye west to drop their leadership and morale with a surprise pre move put down.

Never used the saurus cav, are they any good?

N810
14-09-2009, 18:43
It still sounds like there is never any terrain on the table...

what is your guys normal layout...
perhaps a more strategic terrain seting would help your army...

Like puting a woods directly in front of any hill...
and puting enough woods so you can make it from one side to the other
mostly in cover...

Troah
14-09-2009, 18:49
It still sounds like there is never any terrain on the table...

what is your guys normal layout...
perhaps a more strategic terrain seting would help your army...

Like puting a woods directly in front of any hill...
and puting enough woods so you can make it from one side to the other
mostly in cover...

We have a lot of terrain, a lot of it is big also. Normally we have 6-8 pieces every match. Two are always hills because my opponents always pick them and put them in the deployment zones. I normally pick a river or a forest. There's some buildings, some ancient ruins, mountains, some cute little fences. I always try to have stuff blocking.

N810
14-09-2009, 18:58
Do you only have 2 hills total...
if so, pick one on your turn and put in in the middle somewhere... :p
and then put a big forest or a mountain in front of the other one. hahha

Troah
14-09-2009, 19:01
Do you only have 2 hills total...
if so, pick one on your turn and put in in the middle somewhere... :p
and then put a big forest or a mountain in front of the other one. hahha

No, we have 5 I believe.

N810
14-09-2009, 19:07
do you guys play that units on hils can shoot over other hills and/or forest?

Troah
14-09-2009, 19:14
do you guys play that units on hils can shoot over other hills and/or forest?

We play by sight, if you can see it then you can shoot at it. but you have to get right next to your model and look to see if you can see anything from the models point of view.

N810
14-09-2009, 19:20
lol ok, so you aree basicly using 40k rules.

I just had a crazy idea ...
How about using a ton of single swarm units,
he wouldn't be able to split up his shooting
enough, and the canons would have a hard time hiting them...

like I said it's a crazy idea.

Troah
14-09-2009, 19:59
lol ok, so you aree basicly using 40k rules.

I just had a crazy idea ...
How about using a ton of single swarm units,
he wouldn't be able to split up his shooting
enough, and the canons would have a hard time hiting them...

like I said it's a crazy idea.

Mmmm it is crazy, I've never used swarms before so I never thought of it.

thechosenone
15-09-2009, 05:59
So here's my updated model count, what would you do with this as far as army lists go?

saurus warriors: 57 with spears 2 banners 2 musicians and 2 champions
Saurus warriors: 18 hand weapons musician

Skinks with jav- 15 +1 champion
Skinks with blow pipes: 15+ champion

Skink Priest: 2
Skink Chief: 1

Jungle Swarms: 2

Cold One Calvary: 8

Saurus Hero: 1

temple guard: 20

Slann

Carnasaur with Old Blood

So any help you can give to steer me the right way is so very appreciated gentlemen and ladies.

Trigger36
15-09-2009, 20:06
How about an actual army list? It would be easier to see what your intentions with some of the units are.

Korhil-WLC
15-09-2009, 21:50
We play by sight, if you can see it then you can shoot at it. but you have to get right next to your model and look to see if you can see anything from the models point of view.

Buy Bigger Trees then

Troah
15-09-2009, 23:12
Buy Bigger Trees then

We make our trees, and they're too big to shoot over even when on a hill. Unless you're on one of the mountains that we have, but only single characters that fly could ever get up there.

N810
15-09-2009, 23:39
Troah,
Have you had an even mildly less failing list against him ?
(what was in it?)

Troah
15-09-2009, 23:59
Troah,
Have you had an even mildly less failing list against him ?
(what was in it?)

Ummmm... I've tried mass amounts of Stegadons, I've tried mass amounts of skinks, I've tried all magic, I've tried mass saurus, I've tried a balanced army with a bit of everything, I've tried a bunch of monsters (Stegadons, Carnosaur, Razerdons, Salamanders, Cold Ones, Skinkxigors).