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View Full Version : Making a fun Warriors of Chaos List



Sirroelivan
15-09-2009, 00:57
I've been having second doubts about my Warrior of Chaos army lately (toying with replacing them with Empire), but I think the reason why I find them a bit boring has both to do with the lists I've been using and my lack of tactical skills. :p

So, I'd like some suggestions on how to make a fun army while still tactically challenging enough.

I'd prefer an infantry centered army. So far I've been thinking a few big units of marauders, several small marauder units with flails, a couple of chariots and a warshrine.

zerachiel
15-09-2009, 02:36
Chariots are very all-or-nothing units that are fun to play around with: they either completely roll right over the enemy or die spectacularly. Should keep you amused for a while.

Warshrines give you a new blessing every turn! One of the most entertaining things is rolling on EotG (which we never, ever get to do using the "kill characters/big stuff" condition :( ), and Warshrines let you do that every turn!

Marauders are not fun. :( I love them to death for their fluff, but they just aren't good at all. Maybe if you used them with Wulfrik and surprise bum secks people it'd give the game some unpredictability and tension. Infantry-centered armies need either numbers or armour to get across the field without all being pin-cushioned, and Marauders have bad armour, and with their large bases will end up being too clumsy to use in large numbers, sadly.

Khornates are always a blast, as they're pure carnage once they get there, if they get there. Using anti-bait units and lots of maneuvering to work around their Frenzy can be a tactical blast.

A Slaaneshi Giant. :) You get to strike first, letting you use all of the Giant's wacky hijinks without getting beaten into a pulp first.

Take Lore of Slaanesh. It's very underused (I'm guilty of it too), but has some very entertaining spells. Frenzy-ing Handgunners and sticking your Dragon in front of them, or making Dwarf Ironbreakers run across the board ignoring everything is really amusing.

Use Lore of Tzeentch and Pandemonium. Your opponents don't get to roll on the Miscast table nearly enough.

WoC has so many stupidly uncompetitive, but ultimately fun, stuff in it, it's hilarious. (Not to say they cannot win a casual game, they're quite capable of it... Well, maybe not all-Marauders.)

Enigmatik1
15-09-2009, 04:05
Why the Marauder hate? For their points, Marauders are pretty damn good. I'd happily trade you them for my Skeletons if you don't want yours? :p

Other than that, I agree with most of what zera said. I have always thought that the Lore of Slaanesh is grossly underused and underestimated. The kicker here is that you are pretty much obligated to run a level 4 Slaaneshi caster and if you don't have to deal with Daemons or Vampires, the whole Lore is just "let's screw with my opponent until he pulls his hair out." Even against ItP armies, two spells in the Lore will work (aside from the magic missile, which is pretty trashy) and Ecstatic Seizures can totally ruin a Vampire or Daemons day since it works on ItP troops, but is keyed off Leadership which the aforementioned units usually are sorely lacking (see Skeleton Leadership of THREE).

Kalec
15-09-2009, 04:37
Lore of slaanesh isn't underestimated at all. We all know that it can be terribly brutal against armies vulnerable to psych, and pretty crappy against armies that are ITP. It isn't fun in a friendly game, and in a competitive game you will come against too many ITP armies (the ones you are going to have the most trouble with) for it to be worth using.

Enigmatik1
15-09-2009, 14:47
Lore of slaanesh isn't underestimated at all. We all know that it can be terribly brutal against armies vulnerable to psych, and pretty crappy against armies that are ITP. It isn't fun in a friendly game, and in a competitive game you will come against too many ITP armies (the ones you are going to have the most trouble with) for it to be worth using.

Fair enough. I personally would find it all kinds of fun to run in a friendly game on occassion. But my Chaos lists (when I deem to make them) are all heavily themed/fluffy to minimize opponent frustration. I like "messing" with the rules within the context of the game. The Lore of Slaanesh allows me to do that with mortals on a bearable level (compared to the totally unbearable level with Daemons). And since I wouldn't face an ItP army unless I fought my own TK army...;)

Besides, my army is Marauder heavy molded along the lines of Hellraiser/Pinhead/Cenobites. I simply couldn't pull that off with any other Mark/Lore. :D

zerachiel
15-09-2009, 17:02
Why the Marauder hate? For their points, Marauders are pretty damn good. I'd happily trade you them for my Skeletons if you don't want yours? :p

Other than that, I agree with most of what zera said. I have always thought that the Lore of Slaanesh is grossly underused and underestimated. The kicker here is that you are pretty much obligated to run a level 4 Slaaneshi caster and if you don't have to deal with Daemons or Vampires, the whole Lore is just "let's screw with my opponent until he pulls his hair out." Even against ItP armies, two spells in the Lore will work (aside from the magic missile, which is pretty trashy) and Ecstatic Seizures can totally ruin a Vampire or Daemons day since it works on ItP troops, but is keyed off Leadership which the aforementioned units usually are sorely lacking (see Skeleton Leadership of THREE).

I'll keep mine, thanks. I've got enough of the fleshless buggers with my VC. :P

The Marauder-hate is just that... They don't perform nearly as well as most novels make them out to be (being no strong than Southern Men in the least...). Also, they're just there for bulk, and I hate units that are just there to give combat res (too static to be fun, its like a stats course instead of a game of dice at that point when both sides cannot do wounds and depend on static combat res). They die like flies, and cannot kill anything with any reliability... The only things they do well are: soak up small arms fire for my Warriors, and lose combat for my Warriors by getting picked on by the enemy.


Lore of slaanesh isn't underestimated at all. We all know that it can be terribly brutal against armies vulnerable to psych, and pretty crappy against armies that are ITP. It isn't fun in a friendly game, and in a competitive game you will come against too many ITP armies (the ones you are going to have the most trouble with) for it to be worth using.

It isn't a Lore that's often used from the lists I've seen going around, which is why I suggested it. It's a new and fun thing to try, and has some of the weirder effects (unlike some Lores which focus entirely on setting the opposing army on fire). It can lead to some amusing situations if you're using the spells for fun and not to mercilessly screw your opponent over.

Loki73
15-09-2009, 17:07
Run a Tz demon prince lvl 4. I love em. Just wish he came with chaos armor.

Tower_Of_The_Stars
15-09-2009, 17:20
I'm afraid to say in my opinion WoC are just not a fun army to play. Movement 4 troops, limited shooting, no skirmishers, no flying units and a lack of diversity in troop choice are all factors I have based my opinion on.

I would personally suggest trying a different army.

zerachiel
15-09-2009, 17:23
I'm afraid to say in my opinion WoC are just not a fun army to play. Movement 4 troops, limited shooting, no skirmishers, no flying units and a lack of diversity in troop choice are all factors I have based my opinion on.

I would personally suggest trying a different army.

That may be true, but ironically, no one lines up in an orderly fashion better than Chaos Warriors, so that's a plus.

shartmatau
15-09-2009, 17:45
I'm not sure why some of you don't like marauders. They are one of the cheapest hammer units in the game. Of course they won't last in static combat, but if they have flails and in small units can bash apart even heavy armored units. Then the marauders die, thats what they are there for. Cheap Glass Hammer, it hurt someone and then leaves you to mop up with your better stuff.

Sirroelivan
15-09-2009, 18:11
I'm afraid to say in my opinion WoC are just not a fun army to play. Movement 4 troops, limited shooting, no skirmishers, no flying units and a lack of diversity in troop choice are all factors I have based my opinion on.

I would personally suggest trying a different army.

But if they're not fun to play, then why do so many people play them? That question always pops up with me when people make such a statement.

Jiggy
15-09-2009, 18:26
Because (just like me) WoC has some nice models and fluff.I was really into hordes of chaos and the new book ruined it for me with GW trying to sell fantasy marines.
Indeed the WoC are really boring without any flyers, skirmishers and no great special rules (The EotG could be made better I am sure).

Unuhexium
15-09-2009, 18:47
My take on the maruders:

Marauders are dirt cheap for what they do and have a very wide range of weapons to choose from and thus, can perform many different tasks.

You get three marauders for the price of one chaos warrior.

Just as a backup, it might be a good idea to include two to three minimal groups of marauders without any or with very little gear to capture tablequarters. This way you force your opponent to commit expensive units to kill units that are so cheap they hardly matter, which saves your expensive units' lifes.

In conclusion: Marauders are cheap and tactically versatile troops. They're not as fun in melee as chaos warriors, but they fill roles that don't really fit chaos warriors or marauder horsemen.

Tower_Of_The_Stars
15-09-2009, 19:01
But if they're not fun to play, then why do so many people play them? That question always pops up with me when people make such a statement.

I agree with Jiggy


WoC have some nice models and fluff

Enigmatik1
15-09-2009, 19:46
I'm not sure why some of you don't like marauders. They are one of the cheapest hammer units in the game. Of course they won't last in static combat, but if they have flails and in small units can bash apart even heavy armored units. Then the marauders die, thats what they are there for. Cheap Glass Hammer, it hurt someone and then leaves you to mop up with your better stuff.

I don't get it either...aside from not liking the models, which I can totally understand. Consider how much you pay per model for a Marauder on foot...WS4/S5 attacks for that pittance is a steal and it's core...yes please, can I have some more!!!!

I don't run mine for SCR. I like 2 units of 5 naked Marauder Horse w/ Flails and 14 Marauders on foot also naked with Flails all marked Slaanesh (following my Cenobite theme). I don't take this army seriously as it's a very loose side project. But it's still fun to run and you really don't want these guys coming at your units flails whirling on a charge because unlike some other units who shall remain nameless....they might actually hit something and hurt when they do. ;)

Edit: An army doesn't need special rules, tricky dance moves nor high impact gyrations to be fun. Sometimes you just want to march your units across the table and beat the crap out of the guy across from you. Warriors of Chaos allows that in spades and it's something I haven't quite figured out how to pull off yet with my Tomb Kings...or if its even possible.

I only wish my other armies had such good, cheap and versatile core unit choices. :cries:

Tower_Of_The_Stars
15-09-2009, 20:19
Edit: An army doesn't need special rules, tricky dance moves nor high impact gyrations to be fun.

Because WoC haven't had any special rules to try and make them more fun have they? :rolleyes:

As for Tomb Kings I don't play them but some of my opponents do and I'll tell you now, when you get a feel for them there is a lot of satisfaction (and fun) from winning with them.

Enigmatik1
15-09-2009, 22:02
Because WoC haven't had any special rules to try and make them more fun have they? :rolleyes:

As for Tomb Kings I don't play them but some of my opponents do and I'll tell you now, when you get a feel for them there is a lot of satisfaction (and fun) from winning with them.

Yeah, I know. :D

My point is...sometimes playing a list like my WoC one is just a nice change of pace that I find fun simply because it's so drastically different. I've won a game or two my my TKs and it's like performing delicate surgery. Just playing WoC, at least to me, is more like unadulterated slaughter with little concern for precision. :evilgrin:

Note: I never said I was a good general...especially not when I run WoC. :D

Glabro
15-09-2009, 23:02
The Khornate Marauder Horsemen with Flails are a classic, of course - if you don't mind moonwalking with them.

So, can anyone tell me, in purely tactical / competitive terms of why a large unit of Marauders should be included instead of more Warriors?

I suppose if you can somehow get them to be arrow and spell bait...

Kalec
15-09-2009, 23:51
They shouldn't. You shouldn't include more warriors either.

Tower_Of_The_Stars
15-09-2009, 23:53
My point is...sometimes playing a list like my WoC one is just a nice change of pace that I find fun simply because it's so drastically different.

Yeh I see where you're coming from.


I've won a game or two my TKs and it's like performing delicate surgery. Just playing WoC, at least to me, is more like unadulterated slaughter with little concern for precision. :evilgrin:


Magnificently put.

Loki73
16-09-2009, 00:03
BY fun do we mean "Hello my army comes with a win button!" fun? Lame-tastic Whatever happened to playing with models that are visually appealing in a good natured brawl with friends? Oh wait! Thats my FLGS (maybe others here too).

Get the book or borrow one from a friend and read it. Play/proxy the army, if you don't like it do the same with a different one till you find one you like visually and play style wise. After all you might want to paint it?

Point is there are two camps:

1. Win button camp.
2. Im playing for fun camp.

I like WoC BTW. All of it!

Sirroelivan
16-09-2009, 00:08
I do have a WoC army. (that is the main issue) :p
By fun I mean, fun to play. Requiring a bit of tactics, some quirkiness and all.

Babbey
16-09-2009, 00:20
Why large block of marauders? Character bunkers.

Simply put, I'd much rather have my Sorcerer Lord in a unit of 20 marauders...20 additional wounds at 5+ save.. than the equal point-value of warriors; 8 additional wounds at 4+ save.

To each their own, though. I know alot of people would much rather have the increased stats and armor over the numbers, but when it comes to protecting characters, especially those casters, I love large blocks of marauders. You can tool your character to help them in combat, too...Get a fear/terror causing lord that can be a bit hitty in combat, and suddenly those ranks start to make all the difference.

zerachiel
16-09-2009, 00:25
I don't get it either...aside from not liking the models, which I can totally understand. Consider how much you pay per model for a Marauder on foot...WS4/S5 attacks for that pittance is a steal and it's core...yes please, can I have some more!!!!

I don't run mine for SCR. I like 2 units of 5 naked Marauder Horse w/ Flails and 14 Marauders on foot also naked with Flails all marked Slaanesh (following my Cenobite theme). I don't take this army seriously as it's a very loose side project. But it's still fun to run and you really don't want these guys coming at your units flails whirling on a charge because unlike some other units who shall remain nameless....they might actually hit something and hurt when they do. ;)

Edit: An army doesn't need special rules, tricky dance moves nor high impact gyrations to be fun. Sometimes you just want to march your units across the table and beat the crap out of the guy across from you. Warriors of Chaos allows that in spades and it's something I haven't quite figured out how to pull off yet with my Tomb Kings...or if its even possible.

I only wish my other armies had such good, cheap and versatile core unit choices. :cries:

Whoa, no one said anything about Marauder HORSEMEN. :o Those are by far one of my favorite units, though they have the awesome capability of getting blown over and off the table by a stiff breeze. I run mine with Throwing Axes though.

I don't like Marauders because I enjoy an army that wraps their delicious killy goodness in an iron-hard outer shell, which Chaos Warriors do wonderfully, but Marauders, not so much. The fact that they only have 1 Attack each, M4, and no armour to speak of just doesn't seem to be worth it in my eyes. Even with a Flail, they're only S5, and even with WS4, they'll only hit the real expensive stuff on a 4+. Since they can only really pump out 7-8 attacks at most in that crucial first round (if they charged with their M4, somehow...), half of which will miss... That's still... only 2-3 wounds against T4? I just don't like how paper they are, because they cannot survive being charged or subsequent rounds of combat. I take them for dying purposes, because no one in the entire book beats Marauders at dying to bullets. :)

In short... I love meat grinders, apparently.

Enigmatik1
16-09-2009, 01:03
LOL @ zera...touche, sir.

Just remember, I come from a land where my primary core unit is WS2/S3 that I pay twice as much per model for base than a Marauder basically because it causes fear.

To me, the Marauder is an upgrade. :D

Enakan
16-09-2009, 03:16
What?

Slaaneshi marked Marauders tear up Skellies, and when they're backed up by Knights and Marauder horse hitting flanks and rear...

Situation: JimCon game 5 last Sunday. A 50 zombie block was holding his right flank. In from the front came 20 Slaanesh Marauders FC, a Khornie Exalted on Jugger, 5 Khornie Knights, and from the rear 5 Slaaneshi Marauder Horse. The enemy unit POPPED because I had +5 combat res from the additional Marauders. These guys went on to sandwich the center....

SO, I'd have to disagree that they are useless. Plus, 10 man units are great, just like dogs, for table quarter holders/contesters, baiters, etc...

zerachiel
16-09-2009, 04:25
LOL @ zera...touche, sir.

Just remember, I come from a land where my primary core unit is WS2/S3 that I pay twice as much per model for base than a Marauder basically because it causes fear.

To me, the Marauder is an upgrade. :D

Oh, believe you me, when I first branched out from VC into Empire, I was drooling at the statlines of State Troops. It was a sad day.

These days my primary opposition consist of Dark Elves and Lizardmen, neither of which are particularly vulnerable to Marauders. My Marauders single-handedly tied an otherwise one-sided massacre for my Exalted Hero last game by efficiently skewering themselves on the weapons of the opposition to cancel out my Hero's incredible feat of arms at slaying an entire unit of flanking cavalry by his lonesome.


What?

Slaaneshi marked Marauders tear up Skellies, and when they're backed up by Knights and Marauder horse hitting flanks and rear...

Situation: JimCon game 5 last Sunday. A 50 zombie block was holding his right flank. In from the front came 20 Slaanesh Marauders FC, a Khornie Exalted on Jugger, 5 Khornie Knights, and from the rear 5 Slaaneshi Marauder Horse. The enemy unit POPPED because I had +5 combat res from the additional Marauders. These guys went on to sandwich the center....

SO, I'd have to disagree that they are useless. Plus, 10 man units are great, just like dogs, for table quarter holders/contesters, baiters, etc...

10-man units are great for table quarters, true, but we've always been speaking of them in a fun way. Buying a unit just to sit them in the back twiddling their thumbs is a waste of my artistic talent (I need to ration what little of it I have). If I make a very pretty unit, I want to use said pretty unit. Hiding behind trees makes it look like I'm ashamed of my big burly men in ripped pants, which I most certainly am not.

Ah, but if you replaced those 20 Slaaneshi Marauders for, say... 6 Khornate Warriors, you'll have... 18 attacks, 12 hits, 10 wounds = +10 combat res, against said Zombies. Marauders are good at being big and breathing your opponent's army's air, especially if they don't pack any ranged weaponry (like good ol' VC), but they're just so... Harmless. You don't play WoC to having tea parties in trees, you play WoC to run across the board yelling like you're an Orc with an identity crisis. :D

Enigmatik1
16-09-2009, 13:26
Oh, believe you me, when I first branched out from VC into Empire, I was drooling at the statlines of State Troops. It was a sad day.

These days my primary opposition consist of Dark Elves and Lizardmen, neither of which are particularly vulnerable to Marauders. My Marauders single-handedly tied an otherwise one-sided massacre for my Exalted Hero last game by efficiently skewering themselves on the weapons of the opposition to cancel out my Hero's incredible feat of arms at slaying an entire unit of flanking cavalry by his lonesome.



LOL! Ouch! I guess when things like that happen I can be a little more forgiving of your Marauder hate. :D