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Gen.Steiner
15-09-2009, 17:59
I'm currently gathering my thoughts on the pre, post and Heresy era Imperial Army, and would like to see what other people's ideas and knowledge is.

So far, I know this:

Rhinos and Land Raiders together with Jetbikes, Landspeeders and exotic weaponry like Conversion Beamers, Tarantulas, Mole Mortars, Thudd Guns and so on were common.

Imperial Army units were, until the Heresy's closing year or so, often accompanied by Space Marine advisors - usually leading to higher than should have been expected casualties.

Remembrancers were embedded fairly frequently in Army and Marine units.

Ogryns, Ratlings, Squats etc were all often found attached to Army units.

Jet packs were worn - and used - by Army Assault Squads.

Grav tanks were around, although rarer than the Russ or Raider.

Anything else?

Wolflord Havoc
15-09-2009, 18:16
Hello General,

Here one (or two)

"troops in what appears to be Archaic Mesh Armor, and wielding rifles of unidentifiable type"

Ref: Faded Triptych on El'Panor (page 4 - codex: Imperial Guard - previous ed)

I would also draw reference to the Imperial Guard entry in Rogue Trader - they had some pretty obscure weapons back then (i.e. Shurikan Catapult, graviton gun etc).

As for vehicles - well as you are aware completely none standard - I imagine that armies where inducted with the equipment they had (only later in the crusade would standardisation for supply reasons become an issue) and so you could have one army using Land raiders another grav tanks, while another uses macharius tanks as its main battle tank.

You could pretty much come up with anything you liked - given the untold thousands of differing Guard armies - whose to say that you are wrong?

Good examples would be the the 2 Terran Rgts which formed part of Lord Solar Macharius's 1st Army (see BOLS macharius campaign) - they give a fairly good indication of how different an M.30 Guard Formation might have been.

x-esiv-4c
15-09-2009, 18:49
You'll need to incorperate Ollanius Pius.

btw, i'm very interested in this concept. Are you starting a project log?

The Anarchist
15-09-2009, 19:40
might be worth remembering back then Ab-human units were more common, and could be large contingents ratehr than the rare and smaller units that WD made rules for recently.

also psyker units weren't around back then, they were banned by the conventions of the Nicea convocation. smaller exceptions were demonstrated in Legion by the Chilliad Cept's.
there were commisars abck then but not in the same way as 40k, they weren't centraly trained and then sent out to units. there were in house commisars; more like in regiment police.

Gen.Steiner
15-09-2009, 19:50
i'm very interested in this concept. Are you starting a project log?

I will be, yes - as soon as I get a proper job, so probably some time early next year. Until then I've got a handful of Rogue Trader era troops to start... drumroll please:

5th Battalion, 1st Mercian Yeomanry!

Yes, it's a Terran regiment - from the Europan Combines, no less. I envisage a battered and severely understrength (company size) Battalion which has been crusading for the Imperial Truth for decades; their war has taken them far from their homelands and to alien worlds none could have dreamt of.

So far I'm thinking of something like this (for 5th Edition but can be used in RT too):

Battalion HQ:
Major with two Lucifer Black bodyguards, vox-officer, Regimental Colour Bearer, Medical Officer, RSM, forward artillery observer; Remembrancer(s).

First Company:
Lt, vox-officer, CSM, two troopers.
1 Squad - 10 men
2 Squad - 10 men

Second Company:
Capt, vox-officer, three troopers.
1 Squad - 10 men
2 Squad - 10 men

Third (Assault) Company:
Lt, vox-officer, three troopers
1 Squad - 10 men (veterans)
2 Squad - 10 men (veterans)

Grav-bike Group:
5 grav-bikers (RRs)

Speeder Troop:
3 Speeders

Light Walker Troop:
3 Sentinels

Armoured Support:
Land Raider (!)
Crumwill mk XXI grav-tank (leman russ equivalent)

I've also considered mechanising them, in which case I'd give the command groups Rhinos or Razorbacks and the infantry squads Chimeras (or an equivalent).

In addition I plan on producing five 'true-scale' Space Marines, but I don't know which legion - I was thinking either Alpha Legion or Imperial Fists.

malika
15-09-2009, 20:00
The Imperial Army had its own navy assets, this meant that regiments of the Imperial Army also had their own space ships, transports and so on. Space Marine commanders also had more authority, meaning they could also lead the Imperial Army regiments.

Gen.Steiner
15-09-2009, 20:05
So having an attached Fleet Officer also makes sense, eh?

TheRedAngel
15-09-2009, 20:52
I've also considered mechanising them, in which case I'd give the command groups Rhinos or Razorbacks and the infantry squads Chimeras (or an equivalent).No Razorbacks preheresy! ;)

Gen.Steiner
15-09-2009, 21:24
Ahh, fair enough.

What about Rhinos with turret rings like the M113 ACAV or the HMMWVs with weapon mounts? Less firepower than a Chimera but more than a Rhino's twin bolters.

So, to sum up:

Imperial Army Regiments had their own transports, which were (presumably) armed and capable of orbit-ground support fire.

Imperial Army units were often led by Space Marines.

Imperial Army forces were much more modern in style and outlook (usually) with combined arms units the norm, rather than the exception.

Imperial Army armour varied from grav tanks to Chimeras, Rhinos and Land Raiders. More use of anti-grav tech, jet packs and so on than anything seen in the Imperium 10,000 years later other than the Eldar or the Tau.

Commissars didn't exist, but Regimental Provosts and Military Police did. The Imperial Truth meant that Priests were unheard of but Remembrancers were everywhere, while the Techpriests of Mars were around but had less of an iron grip on machinery, science and knowledge.

Anything else?

AndrewGPaul
15-09-2009, 22:27
I would also draw reference to the Imperial Guard entry in Rogue Trader - they had some pretty obscure weapons back then (i.e. Shurikan Catapult, graviton gun etc).

I wouldn't place too much importance on that stuff - it was set in 989M40, after all, and everybody used shuriken weapons, graviton guns and conversion beamers. :)


You'll need to incorperate Ollanius Pius.

Why? He's one (mythical) man*, and in M30, presumably pre-Heresy, he's anobody.

*Who may not even exist. Until the Horus Heresy novels get that far, the unfortunate individual who serves only to demonstrate that Horus is irrevocably evil is a guardsman, an Imperial Fist Terminator or an Adept Custodes. It's not obvious which one it is.

Did Ollanius Pious ever get more than one, passing, mention in the Warhammer 40,000 Compendium, by the way?

Wolflord Havoc
15-09-2009, 22:54
Also on Page 4 of the now obsolete codex is a mention that 'Regiments' would have been deployed with a given ship and would by nessessity be of a size that would 'fit' on board that ship rather than any organisational reason.

The ships in question were described as 'intersteller crusers'

So you could have say, (I am warming to the subject) the Grand Cruiser "Black Lion" (built in Mars Orbit) which deployed with a Terran regiment "5th Battalion, 1st Mercian Yeomanry" (Then the equivelant of a Reinforced combined arms Brigade) during the 127th year of the Great Crusade and joined one of the lesser crusade fleets in support of an Imperial Fist "Chapter" Battlegroup.

Over the years on various battlefields as well as one or two bloody ship boarding actions the regiment has earned its Motto "Stand Firm and Strike Hard" and is now a poor shadow of the unit that left Terra all those years ago.

RusVal
16-09-2009, 22:28
As I'm always quick to point out in these pre-heresy IA threads, before M32 lasguns weren't the standard weapon of soldiers, autoguns were. And, off the top of my head, I don't remember any mention of Hotshot-las/Hellguns either. So, mostly autoguns and bolters all round. Rules-wise, not that big a deal, just a little factoid some people forget.

Mercian Yeomanry, eh? Should be an interesting project.