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Warsurge
17-09-2009, 03:10
Orks and orcs. Obviously they have similarly spelt names but are they in anyway related between the fantasy realm and the futuristic realm?

Argastes
17-09-2009, 03:24
What do you mean by "related"? I think it's obvious that they are conceptually or thematically related in a very close fashion. The 40K setting was originally more or less "WHFB in Space", and to get the Space Orks, they just took fantasy orcs, threw in a dash of weird technology and biker-gang/Nazi Stormtrooper style, and replaced the C in their name with a K. Oh yeah, and changed "goblins" to "gretchin" (which got shortened to "grots" starting with Gorkamorka).

Or are you asking whether 40K and WHFB occur in the same universe?

Warsurge
17-09-2009, 03:41
Yeah, I was asking if they occur in the same universe.

Gue'Vesa'Vre Kilo
17-09-2009, 03:45
I thought it was stated officially that there is no relation whatsoever between WHFB and 40k.

I can be wrong

Argastes
17-09-2009, 03:53
I think that's correct, but I suppose I could also be wrong.

massey
17-09-2009, 04:06
They are not *wink wink* in the same universe *wink wink*. That's the official *wink wink* GW stance on the subject.

ntin
17-09-2009, 04:09
Warhammer 40k Orks are supposed to be Germans, the K instead of a C is a joke.

Argastes
17-09-2009, 04:19
They are not *wink wink* in the same universe *wink wink*. That's the official *wink wink* GW stance on the subject.

Minus the winks, yes.


Warhammer 40k Orks are supposed to be Germans

I'd say that this is overstating the case pretty strongly. RT/2nd Edition era orks did draw on bit of stereotypically 'German' imagery (look at some of the 2nd Edition helmets/uniforms), but it's basically gone by now. I can see very little in the current codex or model range that shows any 'German' stylistic influence. Gorkamorka basically purged that from 40K Orks.

BrotherMoses
17-09-2009, 04:58
WHFB is occuring on a tiny planet in the EoT is what I heard. This planet is protected by some force that keeps chaos from really bothering it too much.

massey
17-09-2009, 06:03
Minus the winks, yes.



Riiight. That's why in Liber Chaotica, you've got a guy living on the WHFB planet having vision of a great red cyclops who had a thousand sons. I don't think he was talking about Wilt Chamberlain.

JHZ
17-09-2009, 06:37
Riiight. That's why in Liber Chaotica, you've got a guy living on the WHFB planet having vision of a great red cyclops who had a thousand sons. I don't think he was talking about Wilt Chamberlain.
Berserkers who rebel against their father and the fall of the Elder. Not to forget things like chainswords, which can be found on some Chaos worshipers deep withing the Chaos wastes, and the campaign that had relics very much resembling power fists, etc.

The Orcs came to the world of Warhammer in spores aboard the Old Ones star ship. Sez so in the current fluff.

GW can have what ever official policy they want, but they still like to play with the idea a lot. Like how Malal is no more, but you still got stuff like the Sons of Malice, who wear his colours and symbols, are very anti-Chaos and are sponsored by an "unknown" Chaos power.

Main reason for seperation was that GW wanted to develope the two worlds independent of each other.

Condottiere
17-09-2009, 07:40
The offfcicial stance is they're not in the same universe. I think the Warp connects them. Whether or not a Primarch happened to be found on the Warhammer world is pure libel.

Lothlanathorian
17-09-2009, 07:47
And, as far as the Liber Chaotica books being written the way they, well, the author himself will drop in soon enough to tell you why it was done that way.

Also, try search. It works. This topic comes up, literally, every 3 months. Here in a few posts, someone will be begging the mods to close this one. We need some background forum stickies.

Sunyavadin
17-09-2009, 08:23
Chapter Approved 2004 has all the answers you need, Warsurge.

grissom2006
17-09-2009, 08:45
Well if you take into account Bloodbowl then no relationship between Orc's and Orks can be gleemed as Bloodbowl has Female Orc Cheerleaders. The only thing that is a common thread between the species is fungus and even then it applies more to Night Goblins than any other Green Skin.

Condottiere
17-09-2009, 08:55
Cross-dressers.

LexxBomb
17-09-2009, 09:44
Well if you take into account Bloodbowl then no relationship between Orc's and Orks can be gleemed as Bloodbowl has Female Orc Cheerleaders. The only thing that is a common thread between the species is fungus and even then it applies more to Night Goblins than any other Green Skin.

and even Bloodbowl was described as an alternate universe.

Sunyavadin
17-09-2009, 09:52
Blood Bowl never was intended to take itself too seriously. Nobody else should.


Move along now, nothing to see here.


*brushes the corpses of a Squat, a Zoat, and a Fimir warrior clumsily under a rug*

grissom2006
17-09-2009, 09:56
and even Bloodbowl was described as an alternate universe.

Actually it was descriibed as a Ancient Game that was re-discovered in WF and was used at times to actually stop a war being fought, they'd just settle it on a patch instead of a battle field. Of course this entirely depends on which incarnation of Bloodbowl you actually take the lead from.

AndrewGPaul
17-09-2009, 10:47
Yes, but that "Warhammer world" was never the same "Warhammer world" as mainstream Warhammer Fantasy Battles - the Empire isn't going to let tens of thousands of Dark Elves, Orks or Vampires into their capital city every Sunday afternnon in "normal" Warhammer, are they? :) It's always been a comic version of Warhammer.

Condottiere
17-09-2009, 10:50
I think it was part of their Armistice agreement. Thousands of Englanders invade Rome, and it still stands.

Mannimarco
17-09-2009, 12:04
the worlds WERE linked way back in the mists of time but sadly this has been retconned

check out the campaigns and rewards from realm of chaos: lost and the damned, IIRC there was one mission where 2 chaos warbands (fantasy) would fight outside a vast pyramid dedicated to the gods, inside were all kinds of fancy new toys the victor could loot, including several 40k weapons

things were very different back then

massey
17-09-2009, 12:48
Actually it was descriibed as a Ancient Game that was re-discovered in WF and was used at times to actually stop a war being fought, they'd just settle it on a patch instead of a battle field. Of course this entirely depends on which incarnation of Bloodbowl you actually take the lead from.

They found the rules in an ancient temple dedicated to the god "Nuffle" (NFL). Which means that the WF world is Earth in the future. So again, you can't take Blood Bowl too seriously.

Grimbad
17-09-2009, 14:30
the worlds WERE linked way back in the mists of time but sadly this has been retconned

check out the campaigns and rewards from realm of chaos: lost and the damned, IIRC there was one mission where 2 chaos warbands (fantasy) would fight outside a vast pyramid dedicated to the gods, inside were all kinds of fancy new toys the victor could loot, including several 40k weapons

things were very different back then

And some chaos mutations including your arms sprouting autoguns that you could get.

Speaking of Bloodbowl, Freebootaz (IIRC) says that Orks play it in their fortress-towns.

pookie
17-09-2009, 15:13
the worlds WERE linked way back in the mists of time but sadly this has been retconned

check out the campaigns and rewards from realm of chaos: lost and the damned, IIRC there was one mission where 2 chaos warbands (fantasy) would fight outside a vast pyramid dedicated to the gods, inside were all kinds of fancy new toys the victor could loot, including several 40k weapons

things were very different back then

the more recent Lustrian Campaign had several Weapons that were very similar to current 40K weps, including a flamer and suit of Power Armour iirc.

Iracundus
17-09-2009, 15:15
2nd ed. Chaos Codex had the Daemon Prince N'kari, ascended from one of the feral inhabitants of a world surrounded by impenetrable warp storms. It was a world that thus far had resisted all attempts at conquest by the Chaos gods.

In WHFB, there is the Keeper of Secrets N'kari. That discrepancy isn't as large as it might seem either, as in the original Realms of Chaos, one of the possible Gifts was gaining the features and form of a Greater Daemon of one's god.

sycopat
17-09-2009, 18:43
The settings have similarities, but are not the same.

They also have differences, and are occasionally contradictory.

The settings are related because they were made by the same company, and occasionally they steal idea's from each other, but they are not one and the same.

guillimansknight
17-09-2009, 18:50
It's all a load if bull when you start looking at this

Condottiere
18-09-2009, 08:12
This topic comes up quite often in the Fantasy Background Forum, and the answer is that at the beginning, the writers borrowed concepts from Fantasy, but have since then distanced themselves from them, both to establish 40K as a separate setting and perhaps as an exercise in IP control.

zeep
18-09-2009, 08:19
They have been re-linked. What this means is open to interpitation.

WD341, pg 24. Alessio Cavatore is talking about the special characters in the new Daemons books, and says: "Make no mistake, these are the same daemons - Skulltaker is the same being no matter what planet or battlefield he strides across".

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/designer/1639

pookie
18-09-2009, 13:01
They have been re-linked. What this means is open to interpitation.

WD341, pg 24. Alessio Cavatore is talking about the special characters in the new Daemons books, and says: "Make no mistake, these are the same daemons - Skulltaker is the same being no matter what planet or battlefield he strides across".

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/designer/1639

The Link is now only that, (They share Daemons/Gods) and a smattering of items etc.

Lord Damocles
18-09-2009, 13:06
I'd almost be disappointed if this topic wasn't being discussed again.

...almost (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3713524&postcount=13)...

LexxBomb
18-09-2009, 13:08
well that and the Old Ones...dont forget the Old Ones as they created the Orcs and dispursed the Orc Spores on the Warhammer world by way of their ships.

grissom2006
18-09-2009, 13:11
From the link all you can really say is that Chaos has a bridge into both the realms of WFB and 40K, as such you could say they are parallel Universes as such Chaos merely exists within each realm and the two realms know nothing of each other.

Slann in 40K are the Old Ones (RT reference them as this) Slann in WFB are nothing more than tools of the Old Ones.

Atherakhia
18-09-2009, 13:54
WHFB Palanquin of Nurgle, with a Plasma Pistol
yes, it happened.

Nuff said

Condottiere
18-09-2009, 13:58
Parallel evolution. It seems Frogs, Elves, Humans and Spores are likely to found all over the Multiverse.

Philip S
18-09-2009, 14:20
Warhammer 40k Orks are supposed to be Germans, the K instead of a C is a joke.
Blame Tolkien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc#Etymology_of_the_word_.22orc.22) and old English spellings.

Philip

Sir_Turalyon
18-09-2009, 14:34
Back to the topic: in 7th edition fluff made Orcs procreate by spores, and they are now aliens whose spores were accidentaly brought to Warhammer World eighter by starships of Old Ones or "other means". Get two and two together.

As of more interesting topic :D, official stance, as in "printed in GW sourcebook" is that worlds are connected and Warhammer World is a planet separated from rest of Milky Way galaxy by warp storms. GW employees have made statements that worlds are not connected since then, but these never made it into officialy published material. So it's eighter official statement or urban legend started by GW emploees, depending whom you ask. Of course, there is no published material saying that Squats were eaten by Tyranids or that there is no Malal, eighter; emploees start urban legend and we choose to buy into it or not...

LexxBomb
18-09-2009, 14:46
I thought it was the seventh as well

Iracundus
18-09-2009, 14:48
Of course, there is no published material saying that Squats were eaten by Tyranids

That bit isn't correct. In the reprint of the old novel Inquisitor, renamed to Draco, there is an added prologue in which it says the Squats were consumed by the Tyranids. Although this isn't consistent with the rest of Tyranid background, it is actual published material so it isn't just purely hearsay.

guillimansknight
18-09-2009, 17:35
Well we all know that fantasy will end with nids eating the planet when GW get bored

Mannimarco
18-09-2009, 22:10
until we find out sigmar was indeed one of the missing primarchs.....

although these inpenetrable warp storms may cease one day and on that day a combined fleet of empire and brettonian ships shall ascend into the great unknown (one small step for a knight of the realm, one giant leap for mankind)

Condottiere
19-09-2009, 15:37
But discover that the Tilean merchants have already bought up the mineral rights.