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MrWoten
17-09-2009, 16:10
I seem to be getting crushed by players who build their armies around winning through static combat resolution rather then sheer killing power --mainly Dark Elves. How greatly do you gear your own armies up for Combat Resolution?

Mullitron
17-09-2009, 16:39
I think it depends on the army,warriors of chaos with most units dont rely on combat rez as their units are too expensive and can put out soo many high quality attacks. However an army like vampires will rely mainly on combat rez for thier skeletons and ghouls to win combat.

MrWoten
17-09-2009, 17:00
I think it depends on the army,warriors of chaos with most units dont rely on combat rez as their units are too expensive and can put out soo many high quality attacks. However an army like vampires will rely mainly on combat rez for thier skeletons and ghouls to win combat.

Well I mostly fight VC, DE and Lizardmen with a few DoC and WoC mixed in. Most of these armies are built by their players to crush with Combat Resolution, unless they're some uber unit with a Lord like Blood Knights or Cold One Knights. Even then.. It's making me rethink my army choices when my Dragon Princes or Star Lance Prince on a Dragon gets beaten by ranked up Blackguard.

Ozorik
17-09-2009, 17:21
It's making me rethink my army choices when my Dragon Princes or Star Lance Prince on a Dragon gets beaten by ranked up Blackguard.


Which is entirely the point of static combat resolution.

I always include at least 2 large infantry blocks unless I am running an all cavalry army simply becuase ranked units are a staple of warhammer,

Enigmatik1
17-09-2009, 17:21
I think a balanced approach to combat resolution is the best. Although I think it's somewhat easier to win combats via ACR than SCR, I think. But I'm biased against SCR anyway.

You can only really go for SCR if you have (and can afford) dirt cheap units to put on the board en-masse. Either it's dirt cheap because it blows (like Skaven slaves), dirt cheap for what it does (DE Spearmen, Marauders) or zombies (the anamoly on my example list because they aren't really that cheap...but are the best tarpits in the game) doesn't matter.

ACR is easier for most armies to generate and leverage, hence why I think it has a slight edge.

Edit: Given the example given above, SCR is money against big monsters provided your base unit doesn't blow chunks and is stubborn/Itp/unbreakable. A fully ranked Blackguard unit is not the same as a unit of Skaven Slaves...would would get annihilated by your Prince+Dragon combo and go running off the board in Terror...assuming they didn't fail the initial Terror test in the first place. :D

Desert Rain
17-09-2009, 17:37
I like to keep a balance within the army. Some units are meant for static combat resolution while others, infantry and cavalry, are designed to win by killing lot's of stuff and/or hitting things in the flank.
As I play High Elves, Spearmen, Phoenix Guard and to some degree White Lions fall into the first category.
Dragon Princes, Swordmasters and to some degree White Lions fall into the second category.

Avian
17-09-2009, 18:16
For me it all depends on whatever gives me the best value for the points I pay for it. A point of rank bonus is nice when it costs me 30 pts, but rather less so when it costs me 80 pts.

So far my WoC army has had no units with a rank bonus greater than 1, but for my next tournament I hope to replace my two 10-man Marauder units with flails / great weapons with one 20-man unit with light armour and shields instead. It costs slightly more, but I hope it will work significantly better (not a great feat as my Marauders have been decidedly crappy in just about every battle - once even getting beat in combat by skink skirmishers!).

MarcoPollo
17-09-2009, 18:47
Finding a balance is my priority. With WoC there are alof of killy stuff already, so having a ~25 man strong SCR block of marauders with la/hw/sh is great as a "late game hammer"is a major priority. At the end of a game, having a big block with 5+ SCR can have a big effect on partial units of left over "normal hammers". And when you start off with 5 pts of CR, not having things die is just as good as killing stuff. So "die hards" are important -- good armor or w/s or ward saves.

But for an army like DoC, SCR is expensive at 60 pts a rank. So things like BSBs are even more important.

And for an army like Empire with cheap troops designed around SCR, finding ways to add kills becomes more important.

Drachen_Jager
17-09-2009, 19:04
My static is just about nil but I win almost every combat I enter. Mostly because I run a Knights of Khorne army so they usually deal 5 or more wounds against most infantry and rarely take wounds in return.

The highest static I normally have is +2 for a warbanner, most units just have a banner, no ranks and rarely outnumber.

I win quite a bit more often than I lose.

MarcoPollo
17-09-2009, 19:16
My static is just about nil but I win almost every combat I enter. Mostly because I run a Knights of Khorne army so they usually deal 5 or more wounds against most infantry and rarely take wounds in return.

The highest static I normally have is +2 for a warbanner, most units just have a banner, no ranks and rarely outnumber.

I win quite a bit more often than I lose.

I bet you do. Seems like a good set-up without SCR. And if I was going to use primarily ACR then I would build a list similar to that one.

But sometimes you just need numbers to thwart that super hardcore unit/hero that just won't die otherwise. So it never hurts to have one unit that fills that role. The marauder unit that most people use cost around 180 pts and is quite reliable.

Draconian77
17-09-2009, 19:24
My Druchii list runs one unit with SCR(24 Spearmen with Shields, Banner, Warbanner, Pendant Bsb joins the unit) and apart from that, it's all active combat resolution.

How important do I rate it? Don't know to be honest. Useful some games, useless in others. I'm not changing it anytime soon though.

Witchblade
17-09-2009, 20:14
Ask VC players how important it is.

Keller
17-09-2009, 20:18
It really depends on the army. Some units, even whole armies, depends more on static combat res, others on dynamic combat res.

Empire armies, for example, need as much SCR as they can get, since their troops are so much weaker and less well protected than most others out there. My Imperial units are always fielded in units of 25+, granting +3 ranks, possible +1 Outnumber, plus the +1 for Standard, and a musician in case of a tie. Couple in the flanking detachment for a +1 Flank, -3 to enemy SCR by negating ranks, and possibly a magic standard to help (+1 or +3) and suddenly my inability to make kills isn't so bad. Its just too bad only 1 unit can have a magic standard, and only if there is a General leading the army.

My Ogre Kingdoms, on the otherhand, rely almost exclusively on DCR. With a need for 5 models wide, they never have any ranks, seldom include enough models for the +1 outnumber, and rarely have a standard, since they could easily lose it. All CR comes from kills generated from the impact hits of Bull Charge and their normal attacks, and hopefully a flank attack when able.

Some armies are as extreme as these two, others fall somewhere in between.

Nurgling Chieftain
17-09-2009, 20:44
The advantage of kills over static is that you're also killing models. ;)

Tarian
17-09-2009, 22:28
My Dragon Princes come in with Banner, Warbanner, Battle Standard Bearer and the "Banner of Battle" giving me +4-9 "banner" resolution not including kills, or potential outnumber/rank as I usually have 10-12 DP in the unit. Yes, I really like my reliable resolution. (Even if I fluff my attack rolls, I still have a decent chance to win/not lose badly.)

Condottiere
18-09-2009, 08:59
SCR is very important, especially if you feel you're going to lose in kills and the unit isn't stubborn; keeping the enemy in place might give you enough time to countercharge him with some formation that could give you some kills instead.

Arguleon-veq
18-09-2009, 14:01
I suppose one point in this is luck.

Active combat res CAN go wrong, you can totally fluff your attacks.
Static Combat res cant go wrong. So it minimises risks in the game.

I personally go for Active combat res as there is usually more potential with it but I do like to have a little static res in t he army to fall back on if the dice are totally abandoning me that day.

Keller
18-09-2009, 14:10
SCR is very important, especially if you feel you're going to lose in kills and the unit isn't stubborn; keeping the enemy in place might give you enough time to countercharge him with some formation that could give you some kills instead.

This is a great point. Static combat res is critical not only in winning, but to help ensure you don't lose by so much you have little chance of holding.

danny-d-b
18-09-2009, 14:18
sadly stacic combat res in my view is slowly being driven out of the way by GW

I use to run a 25 man big swordsman unit lead by a BSB with girffon banner to rack up SCR ('6' ranks, BSB,flank and standard and outnumber) however most of the time I got no kills and instead ended up winning by 1-2 which wasn't enough and even a rear charge by knights wasn't able to do enough dammge and they where ground out, or my BSB died so i lost very heavly,

my WOC army now contuinues with blocks of troops (2 units of 22 marruders) and with 3 burbus a turn caracters arn't casusing me problems while my knights/drogers/giants deal with monsters and knights the two things I use to hate

Drachen_Jager
18-09-2009, 18:48
I bet you do. Seems like a good set-up without SCR. And if I was going to use primarily ACR then I would build a list similar to that one.

But sometimes you just need numbers to thwart that super hardcore unit/hero that just won't die otherwise. So it never hurts to have one unit that fills that role. The marauder unit that most people use cost around 180 pts and is quite reliable.

Oh no doubt it has it's risks, I just enjoy the rush forward and the mental imagery of this great wall of superhuman steel clad warriors smashing though weak puny opponents (except when they whiff their attacks, but with 18 str 5 and 12 str 4 it makes luck much less of a factor through sheer number of dice). Of course one bad turn of combat and things can go very wrong very quickly. It's a one sided army but I've always found it fun to play because it's all or nothing, ties and minor victories are quite rare.

To me it would just feel wrong to add infantry, it's tempting sometimes but it just doesn't suit the theme.

BrPrometheus
18-09-2009, 19:50
There are a number of units that eliminate static res, Black guard, White Lions, stubborn and unbreakable which are appearing more often than ever before. I agree with the comment above you need to handle both.

Condottiere
19-09-2009, 18:09
Units that can deliver a lot of attacks from their front rank don't usually need more ranks behind as they get results through kills, and then you're paying for attacks that can't be used in combat from the models in subsequent ranks. That means you'd have to position such units both aggressively enough so that they can attack, but far enough behind so that they won't be charged.