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View Full Version : Overrun / Charge into odd rear ranks



Acidburns
17-09-2009, 19:54
I had a situation like this:


http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7550/chargeexample.jpg
By acidburns (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/acidburns) at 2009-09-17

Dark blue is a Star Dragon, Light blue is a friendly unit. The Pink is a unit of Cavalry, Dark Red is a hydra, red are the handlers.

The Star dragon had just finished off a dark elf unit and was about to pursue into the rear of the resulting mess. We were not sure which units the star dragon could charge / go into base to base with. In the end we decided the dragon would have to choose between the hydra or the cavalry. How should we resolve this situation?

Nurgling Chieftain
17-09-2009, 20:16
Based on the diagram, the dragon would hit the cavalry first. At that moment, the situation becomes "pursuit into fresh enemy" with the cavalry as the enemy. The dragon will charge the rear of the cavalry. You don't really have a choice in the matter.

T10
17-09-2009, 20:20
I'll assume that the diagram isn't an entirely accurate depiction of the situation and that both the Hydra and the Cavalry are valid targets for the charge: The Dragon will either charge the Hydra unit or the cavalry unit. It does not charge both. This is because it can "maximise contact" with either without also having to contact the other, so there is no multiple targets issue (p. 24).

You may want to take a look at diagram 36.2: Incomplete Ranks in Combat. As you can see the rearomost models are considered to be in base contact even though they are not actually touching.

-T10

Acidburns
17-09-2009, 20:21
So the dragon would be placed in contact only with the cavalry? Would it be centred on the cavalry or would it be placed wherever it hit first?

In the actual tabletop situation the dragon was pointed right into the corner of the hydra and the handlers.

T10
17-09-2009, 20:27
If the Dragon charges the cavalry unit he would have to be placed within it's pursuit move (allowing for a free wheel to align) in such a manner that he makes contact with as many Cavalry models as possible.

Presumably that would be all three.

-T10

Drachen_Jager
17-09-2009, 20:32
It must be placed to maximize models in combat and it must charge the cavalry, the handlers on 20mm bases would be out of reach anyhow (unless there were 3 of them, you only show 2). I suppose you could align to be touching the Hydra and it wouldn't be cheating per se but it's getting pretty dark in the "grey areas" in my books because of the extremely odd swing and slide move required to pull it off. The most straight up way to play is align in the middle of the Cavalry.

Acidburns
17-09-2009, 20:35
Right I think I've got it now. If the dragon went into the hydra's rear it could attack the handlers (if it were not for the handler rule of course) via the incomplete ranks rule.

What if the handlers were on the other side, could the dragon (if it were directly in the rear of the hydra) attack the cavalry via the incomplete ranks rule even though they are a different unit?

Nurgling Chieftain
17-09-2009, 20:51
I don't think the "incomplete ranks" rule extends to other units, no.

The unit charged is the first one the dragon would touch if it were moved straight forward. I maintain that that's the cavalry; pointed at the corner between the handlers and the hydra, the dragon's front left corner hits the cavalry significantly before hitting the hydra or handlers. Once that's been determined, however, it performs a charge move instead (maximizing contact with the target unit).

jaxom
17-09-2009, 21:07
As a flier, the Dragon should be able to opt to fly entirely over this combat and strike a unit on the far side of this combat (if such a unit existed). Is there something special about the rules for an existing combat which would prevent him from "flying over the initial point of contact and striking another unit in this combat," essentially requiring a shift so as not to be in contact with the unit he chose to fly over?

In other words... If these units were not in combat and separated by a half-inch or so, the dragon would have his choice of the two on the charge (assuming both were in line of his overrun) I believe. What about their being in combat changes this? Or am I misunderstanding how a large flier charges in the first place?

Nurgling Chieftain
17-09-2009, 21:26
This is a "pursuit into fresh enemy" situation (even though it's technically an overrun, the pursuit rules apply), not a normal charge. He automatically charges the first enemy unit he touches on a straight path forwards.

In a normal charge situation, he'd be free to declare a charge against any unit in range and LOS, and potentially fly over intervening units. Overrun is not that scenario.

stripsteak
17-09-2009, 22:09
a flyer can still choose to fly over units when pursuing, or charge them. the dragon would be allowed to fly over the first unit it would contact and charge the second if it had reach/room etc.