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alex17
18-09-2009, 16:28
1 Bloodthirster 515
firestorm blade
immortal fury
armour of khorne

1 Masque 90

1 Herald of Khorne 265
juggernaut
firestorm blade
armour of khorne
battle standard bearer
banner of u. victory

10 Horrors 120

10 Horrors 120

10 Horrors 120

5 Furies 60

5 Flesh Hounds 175

5 Flesh Hounds 175

5 Flesh Hounds 175

5 Flamers 175

1990

blackjack
18-09-2009, 16:55
Bog standard cheese list.

It should kick ass.

alex17
18-09-2009, 16:56
yup, that and the fateweaver list. but thats cost many monies.... :(

Darkangeldentist
18-09-2009, 17:46
Ugh...nasty.

What's the banner do? Sorry I'm not that hot on the names for Daemonic stuff.

One thing you might want to consider how or if the missions will affect you adversely? A couple are dependent on scoring units which means units that are at least US5, over half strength, not raised, monsters, single models etc... Regular units in other words. Plus there are the secret missions.

The only thing I'd consider would be swapping armour of khorne on the blood thirster for a spellbreaker. You've 10pts spare and the armour is 15pts I think. You've got plenty of resistence and a decent pool but a scroll is very useful against that other GT favourite Vampire counts.

theweck
18-09-2009, 17:49
I don't know if situations come up often enough for it to be a problem, but I have heard some people have issue with the firestorm blade running into fire immune creatures, and then just getting into a perpetual stall with the blood thirster. Not sure if you are expecting much of that in the metagame, but it is worth considering.

alex17
18-09-2009, 18:07
the banner, i cant remember off the top of my head- but i think its the plus d3 to com. res 1, he'll run with one unit of hounds- and the fire resistance could be a problem, but i wont use my thirster for lord killing mainly, more as a march blocker- alongside being a awesome flanker

Gokamok
18-09-2009, 18:28
The Firestorm Blade could indeed cause problems, since it means that your army has nothing that can stop a Star Dragon (which is likely the strongest HE build) from wrecking anything it wants in your army. Of course, the HE player won't know what weapon your BT has until you actually hit something with him, but I think it might be worthwhile the KB thingie instead.
Apart from that, the list looks rock solid, should obliterate most stuff with out too much fuss.

blackjack
18-09-2009, 19:34
player won't know what weapon your BT has until you actually hit something with him

Wrong. Daemons have no magic items, you are obligated to tell you opponent all your non magical equipment on request.

alex17
18-09-2009, 19:34
well, i'm sadly not able to go this year :(- damn fail already organised things. but i should be at tounaments in 2010, so i'll see you there guys :). and yeh, i think the firestorm blade could be a problem so when i get my new daemons book :) i'll check stuff out. and awesome c&c, it's damn helpful. also what armies, specific lists please, will i have trouble against and why?

Gokamok
18-09-2009, 20:01
Wrong. Daemons have no magic items, you are obligated to tell you opponent all your non magical equipment on request.

Is there an official rule on this? Most tournaments I've attended have played Gifts, Bloodline Powers, etc. as hidden, even though they're not considered magic items ruleswise.

Papawolf
18-09-2009, 22:13
firestorm blade is more often than not, beneficial because of the amount of regen in competative lists. however considering tha amount of fire attacks in your army, i would consider taking hatred instead as it means you can more effectively kill rank and file models and also kick the crap out of those pesky elves with great ease

alex17
18-09-2009, 22:29
i already have re-rolls in every round of combat. immortal fury

Tzeentch Lord X7
18-09-2009, 22:57
i play a list similar to yours and i prefer taking the axe of khorne than the fire storm blade. if you run into high elves with dragon princes or a prince with dragon armour your kinda screwed at that point ang giving your opponent over 600 VP's

narrativium
18-09-2009, 23:11
Is there an official rule on this? Most tournaments I've attended have played Gifts, Bloodline Powers, etc. as hidden, even though they're not considered magic items ruleswise.
Technically, as far as I know, there's no official rule saying magic items have to be hidden... but players hide them. Gifts, Bloodline powers, etc., are a sort of grey area from there.

To the original poster: it's a solid list, though there's not a lot of magic in it (five power dice, five dispel dice, four spells including the Masque). Also, bear in mind the secret missions - one offers 400VPs, during any scenario, for killing your most expensive unit, and you have four who meet that criterion. The first unit of Flesh Hounds could be worth more than your Bloodthirster to your opponent.

alex17
18-09-2009, 23:16
i may consider sitting my b.s.b behind the 3 units of hounds, or even in a horror unit :O

alex17
18-09-2009, 23:17
nah, i joke- he needs to sit either in one of the hound units, or on his own :)
and no, 265+175=440
my thirster is worth 515 :)
doesn't the thirster count as a "unit", for that extra 400vp's?

Falkman
19-09-2009, 00:59
Seems strange to have the Masque along and not take Great Icon of Despair.

narrativium
29-09-2009, 20:02
doesn't the thirster count as a "unit", for that extra 400vp's? No, it's a character. There's an FAQ on the Warhammer World website (Events section) which clarifies this.

On the subject of Furies: yes, they're worth taking. A cheap unit for marchblocking, shielding Flamers, taking out artillery, generally harrassing your opponent? They're not a waste of points.

PeG
29-09-2009, 20:12
I agree that Furies are worth taking, cheap flyers that can marchblock, shield and are strong enough to take out the greatest threats against greater daemons ie greater cannons etc

For the thirster I often face a lot of HE that are immune to flaming attacks which means that flamers, horrors etc cant do anything. Therefore I need the thirster to be able to kill them so no flaming weapons for him. I do agree with the obsidian armour and immortal fury.

narrativium
30-09-2009, 09:52
They're not *necessary* in a Daemon army, lord knows the Daemon army has enough strong choices to take, but they are useful and I see quite a few tournament armies taking them.

And... yeah. Immune-to-fire units are going to give you a hard time, so you need to focus on what you can kill and maybe beat the rest with combat res, but how often do you come up against a Star Dragon list anyway?

Gokamok
30-09-2009, 11:21
And... yeah. Immune-to-fire units are going to give you a hard time, so you need to focus on what you can kill and maybe beat the rest with combat res, but how often do you come up against a Star Dragon list anyway?

As far as I can tell, most HE GT lists take a Lord on a Star Dragon, since it seems to be their strongest build. While there'll still be lots of VPs in the other elements of the HE army, (apart from the Dragon Princes that are also immune to flaming attacks) I still think that it will be a problem to have a Star Dragon running rampant across your lines while you have nothing to threaten it; giving the BT Axe of Khorne (isn't that the name of the KB gift?) would provide a solution to this problem.
Then again, you can't tailor your list to beat every single list out there, and if you just manage a huge massacre in your first game, the chance of facing HE armies becomes smaller as the tournament progresses.

PeG
30-09-2009, 12:13
Even so the reason I take the Firestorm Blade is for the +1 strength.

As soon as it becomes flaming it does nothing against dragon princes and other HE with dragon armour since they become immune to the complete attack and not only the flaming part meaning no +1 S and 0% chance of wounding anyone.

Where I play immune to fire is the standard HE build in response to tzeentch daemons, Tzeentch WoC, Lore of fire that are all favorites used to kill elves.

narrativium
30-09-2009, 14:44
Then again, you can't tailor your list to beat every single list out there, and if you just manage a huge massacre in your first game, the chance of facing HE armies becomes smaller as the tournament progresses.
You tailor it to an extent - I think most competent generals will try and pick a few magic weapons or spells to ensure they can do something against etheral troops (or Slann with that discipline). Not that that's an issue to Daemons, of course, but I think having something in a Daemon army which causes non-fire wounds is sensible.

Actually... come to think of it... Can a Bloodthirster choose to not use his Firestorm blade? It's a magical weapon but it's also a Daemonic Gift, not a Magic Item, so can he choose to use a handweapon instead?

Arguleon-veq
30-09-2009, 15:01
Why isnt a Bloodthirster with the Firestorm effective against a Star Dragon?

As far as I am aware, unless I have missed something, the Dragon isnt Immune to flaming attacks. There is no way the Prince can stop you smacking his Dragon around.

So you just off his Dragon and autobreak the Prince as odds are he wont be doing any wounds without his Dragon.

Perhaps I have just missed that rule somewhere though?

Gokamok
01-10-2009, 03:00
No, you did not miss anything. The Star Dragon is not immune to flaming attacks. I have other units in my army to deal with a unit or two of Dragon Prince's. My Daemon army is not a one trick pony.

The Star Dragon gains the riders fire immunity when he's wearing that magic armour thingie, I believe the source might be the HE FAQ, and it was definitely played that way at last years UK GT.

narrativium
01-10-2009, 12:04
It's in the HE FAQ, bottomg of page 2, first column. "If a model (or its mount) equipped with dragon armour..." "They are immune to the entire attack."

Kitskin
01-10-2009, 12:15
Actually... come to think of it... Can a Bloodthirster choose to not use his Firestorm blade? It's a magical weapon but it's also a Daemonic Gift, not a Magic Item, so can he choose to use a handweapon instead?

As its a daemonic gift i believe it affects all his attacks, whatever he happens to use for them. For example on the 2nd page on the daemons FAQ it shows that a bloodthirster with both the axe of khorne gift and the firestorm blade gift has strength 7 killing blow atks and can't choose to only use one of the abilities.

Arguleon-veq
01-10-2009, 12:29
Didn't think to check the FAQ. Man, what a silly ruling.

theloniouskrunk
01-10-2009, 14:57
The army sounds nasty, what heat are you taking them to? I'll be at heat 2 and my Dwarfs might struggle against that list!

As good a list as it is though, I would be a little concerned about the amount of scenarios/secret missions that rely on capturing things and would be tempted to go for at leat one unit with a US of more than ten.

This year it's all about the take and hold.

Thelonious Krunk

EvC
01-10-2009, 15:11
I think he said he's not going any more, which is fine by me- one fewer crappy Daemon army to avoid!

Einholt
14-10-2009, 22:53
That would make no sense since you cannot strike the cavalry mount anyway. Besides the precedent was the old Eye of Tzeentch giving a Chaos dragon a 3 up shooting ward save, I do not see how this would be any different. Though I am not thrilled about it, it is what it is and its quite obvious given the FAQ that sadly they wanted it to work this way.

narrativium
14-10-2009, 23:32
The FAQ's quite clear on the ruling, it hasn't been misread.

Maoriboy007
14-10-2009, 23:55
I think this rule/faq is being read incorrectly. It is about cavalry mount. Steeds, Cold ones, Juggernaughts etc. Not a monstrous creature which can be attacked separate from the character. Read the rules in the main rule book under monsters.

I beleive dragon armour (not a magical item by the way) grants fire immnuity to the bearer and his mount in its description. Also does over screaming skull catapaults, Flaming breath weapons,spells weapons, Flaming Dwarf runes etc.
I must admit I have very little sympathy for complaints about anything that does over a cheese bloodthirster in any way.